• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
intex
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
PM-Ace-Labs
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
sunrise2
PHARMAHGH1
kinglab
ganabol2
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
boslabs1
granabolic1
napsgear-210x65
monster210x65
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
DeFiant
UGFREAK-banner-PM
STADAPM
yms-GIF-210x65-SB
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
wuhan2
dpharma
marathon
zzsttmy
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
azteca
crewguru
advertise1x
advertise1x
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

RON PAUL JUST DISSAPPOINTED ME.

alan1973

New member
Kilo Klub Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
1,648
Just got this letter via e-mail:

Action Alert

After the Paulson $700 billion bailout package passed in early October, we knew it was only a matter of time before Congress moved to use your money yet again to bail out a struggling industry.

Now, a vote to give funds to the "Big 3" auto manufactures, GM, Ford, and Chrysler, is likely to come up in the Senate tomorrow.

Call your Senators today and ask them to oppose bailing out the auto industry, whether with funds from TARP, revisions of previous loans, or any new grants. To find the information for your Senators, click on our "States <http://cp20.com/Tracking/t.c?26Y1-2ZrL-5f2pn7> " page and look for your state. Phone numbers and links to contact forms can be found near the bottom of each state's page. We have included recommended letters at the end of this email to send your Senator.

The ultimate fate of the auto industry bailout remains uncertain, and it is crucial that we contact our Senators today and urge them to stick to the Constitution and free market principles.

Please also consider making a donation <http://cp20.com/Tracking/t.c?26Y1-2ZrM-5f2pn8> to Campaign for Liberty today to aid us in our efforts to fight big government policies at the local, state, and federal levels. Together, we will achieve our goals of reclaiming our Republic and restoring our Constitution.


In Liberty,

John Tate

President
Campaign for Liberty


**********************

Letter #1



Dear Senator (Name),

I urge you to oppose any bailout of the auto industry, whether by taking existing funds from TARP, revising any previous loans, or making new grants.

The auto industry is lobbying hard for taxpayer money when they should be entirely focused on restructuring their companies and recouping their losses. There is no guarantee that a government handout will have any positive effect, and that GM, Ford, and Chrysler will not be back in a few months asking for additional billions.

Since a bailout will only delay the economic consequences of the Big 3's current predicaments, Congress should allow the market to work so that the fallout can be dealt with and overcome as quickly as possible.

Instead of handing out more of the taxpayers' money and moving further away from the free market ideas that made America great, I ask you to:

1.) Curb regulation: The auto industry is already one of the most heavily-regulated industries, and a bailout will bring more government regulation and additional costs. Alleviating even a little of the red tape would free up resources for them to address their financial situations, save jobs, and produce quality products to jump-start sales.

2.) Cut taxes: Cutting corporate and capital gains taxes would give these companies immediate funds to put toward their problems. Cutting individual income taxes would return much needed money to workers and consumers, strengthening their financial positions and purchasing power during these turbulent times.

Taking just these two steps will save the industry far more in the long run than the numbers currently being proposed for the bailout.

Additionally, because the Paulson TARP plan has abandoned its originally stated purpose of buying toxic assets, is not holding up its promises to be transparent, and has not been properly accountable to Congress, no further expenditures should be authorized until the Treasury Department presents a full accounting to Congress of how it has already dispersed TARP funds.

Since the election, Republicans have talked of returning to their limited government message. This is a chance for you to prove your commitment to free market capitalism and the freedom philosophy by demonstrating that the Republican Party will be worthy of our trust in the next Congress. A vote for another bailout will send the signal that, despite any lip-service paid to limited government principles, Republican talking points of defending them are cheap and little more than campaign rhetoric.

The answers to our economic problems cannot be found in further government intervention. As your constituent, I urge you not to put my tax dollars on the line and to vote "no" on the auto industry bailout.

Sincerely,


**********************

Letter #2




Dear Senator (Name),

I urge you to oppose any bailout of the auto industry, whether by taking existing funds from TARP, revising any previous loans, or making new grants.

The auto industry is lobbying hard for taxpayer money when they should be entirely focused on restructuring their companies and recouping their losses. There is no guarantee that a government handout will have any positive effect, and that GM, Ford, and Chrysler will not be back in a few months asking for additional billions.

Since a bailout will only delay the economic consequences of the Big 3's current predicaments, Congress should allow the market to work so that the fallout can be dealt with and overcome as quickly as possible.

Instead of handing out more of the taxpayers' money and moving further away from the free market ideas that made America great, I ask you to:

1.) Curb regulation: The auto industry is already one of the most heavily-regulated industries, and a bailout will bring more government regulation and additional costs. Alleviating even a little of the red tape would free up resources for them to address their financial situations, save jobs, and produce quality products to jumpstart sales.

2.) Cut taxes: Cutting corporate and capital gains taxes would give these companies immediate funds to put toward their problems. Cutting individual income taxes would return much needed money to workers and consumers, strengthening their financial positions and purchasing power during these turbulent times.

Taking just these two steps will save the industry far more in the long run than the numbers currently being proposed for the bailout.

Additionally, because the Paulson TARP plan has abandoned its originally stated purpose of buying toxic assets, is not holding up its promises to be transparent, and has not been properly accountable to Congress, no further expenditures should be authorized until the Treasury Department presents a full accounting to Congress of how it has already dispersed TARP funds.

The answers to our economic problems cannot be found in further government intervention. As your constituent, I urge you not to put my tax dollars on the line and to vote "no" on the auto industry bailout.


Sincerely,




Here is my response to this message:
You almost got me until I read this:
1.) Curb regulation: The auto industry is already one of the most heavily-regulated industries, and a bailout will bring more government regulation and additional costs. Alleviating even a little of the red tape would free up resources for them to address their financial situations, save jobs, and produce quality products to jumpstart sales.

My Answer: Are you kidding me? Regulation is what we need to get our cars into the 21st century. Without it, all cars will be gas guzzlers increasing our need on foreign petrol.

2.) Cut taxes: Cutting corporate and capital gains taxes would give these companies immediate funds to put toward their problems. Cutting individual income taxes would return much needed money to workers and consumers, strengthening their financial positions and purchasing power during these turbulent times.

My Answer: These companies made their beds and now they must lie in it. If they changed their strategies to produce energy efficient cars across the model line, sales would have exploded during the Gasoline crisis this past summer.

I once believed in Ron Paul....not anymore.
 
If that sways your belief in Ron Paul, you've obviously not read the likes of Murray Rothbard, Paul Craig Roberts or Lew Rockwell. He hasn't strayed one bit from being a strict constitutionalist and continues to fight the mercantilistic/nationalistic bullshit that's going on in this country
 
My Answer: Are you kidding me? Regulation is what we need to get our cars into the 21st century. Without it, all cars will be gas guzzlers increasing our need on foreign petrol.

No it wouldnt. Regulation is what has allowed GM and the rest of the big 3 to put out shitty cars taht dont meet market demand. Honda, Nissan, Toyata, etc. arent coddled like GM, Ford, and Chrysler, and theyre doing fine at producing cars for the 21st century.

My Answer: These companies made their beds and now they must lie in it. If they changed their strategies to produce energy efficient cars across the model line, sales would have exploded during the Gasoline crisis this past summer.

Interesting that you say this but then say we need government regulation (and yes, the bailout is a form of regulation) to bring the cars into the 21st century.


You may not believe in Ron Paul anymore, but it seems you never really understood the economics of what he stood for.
 
THE SAD THING IS. after you bail them out what happens?... if the economy can not support the big three now, why later..? this may be putting a band aid on a severed limb.. they will more than likely come to this again.. then what?.. bail them out again?.. what about other industrys? do we now bail out the textil industry if they need it.. well, ya have to if ya do the auto industry.. where does it stop?. now, that being said, it is not the auto workers fault.. so why are they going to get punished.. it really is a double edged sword..
 
My econ professor said an interesting thing about the US automakers, the gist of which is the following:

the unions have so lowered efficiency and increased costs that GM, Ford, and Chevy LOSE money on every small (read: fuel efficient) car that they sell. Given the choice, they would specialize in heavy trucks and SUVS and leave the lighter cars to the Toyota et al. Unfortunately, the cafe standards, a regulation imposed by the government, requires that they achieve a certain average fuel efficiency among the cars that the produce. Consequently, they are forced to try to compete in the small cars market where not only do they lose money on the cars that they sell but they are outcompeted by the japs.

It follows then that the only way to "save" american automakers would be to lower taxes to increase profit margins, remove cafe standards, and provide them a way to get out of their union obligations. A bailout accomplishes none of these things and would tend to retard an progress towards the latter.
 
My econ professor said an interesting thing about the US automakers, the gist of which is the following:

the unions have so lowered efficiency and increased costs that GM, Ford, and Chevy LOSE money on every small (read: fuel efficient) car that they sell. Given the choice, they would specialize in heavy trucks and SUVS and leave the lighter cars to the Toyota et al. Unfortunately, the cafe standards, a regulation imposed by the government, requires that they achieve a certain average fuel efficiency among the cars that the produce. Consequently, they are forced to try to compete in the small cars market where not only do they lose money on the cars that they sell but they are outcompeted by the japs.

It follows then that the only way to "save" american automakers would be to lower taxes to increase profit margins, remove cafe standards, and provide them a way to get out of their union obligations. A bailout accomplishes none of these things and would tend to retard an progress towards the latter.

The unions are definitiely not innocent but its like being on the Titanic: if you know the ship is sinking, you try to get as much stuff of value and a life preserver to take of your own.

Most people dont remember, but in the 1950's the unions wanted to take over their own pensions and health care and fund them through the union members but it was the BIG 3 that opposed that because it would lock employees into certain jobs for a lifetime (in retrospect that kinda happens anyway). Im sure the Big 3 saw a profit margin possible as well, but like most of their gambles, they guessed wrong.

My opinion is with LATS: when does it stuff. The gov doesnt have $700 billion, thats $700 billion taken away from YOU by printing it out of thin air and weakening the value of the dollar. Fuck that.
 
the car companies built what you wanted, till last summer everyone wanted trucks and SUV’s, you say what about hybrids, the prius makes up such a small number of the companies sales, and if you talk about quality, the quality at ford motor company is on par with the foreign manufactures. If you want to talk shit about them level the playing field, tariff the foreign cars coming in much as they tariff us, only allow the same number imported to our county as we can export to theirs. Japan, South Korea, both have socialized medicine so the price of health car is not calculated into their price.
The fact is if the auto industry folds millions of jobs will be lost and if you think that won’t hurt the economy, your fooled. If you drive a foreign car thanks for the mess, when you buy domestic goods you keep people in your county employed, they buy stuff in your county and this keeps you employed. When you buy foreign goods it keeps the people who manufactured those goods employed they buy stuff in their country and keep people in their country employed. I believe its called transfer of wealth.
 
If you drive a foreign car thanks for the mess, when you buy domestic goods you keep people in your county employed, they buy stuff in your county and this keeps you employed. When you buy foreign goods it keeps the people who manufactured those goods employed they buy stuff in their country and keep people in their country employed. I believe its called transfer of wealth.

How can you say that?? Toyota employs thousands of Americans in manufacturing plants in the US..

In 13 locations across North America, more than 36,000 team members are producing* over 1.3 million vehicles, more than 1.5 million engines, and nearly 400,000 automatic transmissions per year. In fact, 11 Toyota and Lexus models are built in North America with parts purchased from hundreds of North American supplier locations.

Our annual U.S. spending on parts, goods and services with suppliers totals more than $28 billion** and counting, as Toyota continues to grow and build more vehicles, engines and transmissions in North America.

Here are some figures from Honda....

Honda now has 10 manufacturing plants in America, with three new plants under construction:
$550 million plant for production of the Honda Civic Sedan (2008) in Greensburg, Indiana
$100 million plant for production of the innovative HondaJet (2010) in Greensboro, North Carolina
$27 million fuel-efficient jet engine plant in Burlington, North Carolina.
Employment of nearly 27,000 associates in manufacturing, R&D, sales and other operations
U.S. capital investment of nearly $9 billion
More than $17.1 billion in parts and materials purchased from U.S. suppliers in 2007 – a $1.5 billion increase from the previous year.


General Motors needs to get rid of some of their divisions.. They have seven divisions (chevy, buick, pontiac, gmc, saturn, hummer, saab, and cadillac) when foreign companies have one or two..
 
The fact is if the auto industry folds millions of jobs will be lost and if you think that won’t hurt the economy, your fooled. If you drive a foreign car thanks for the mess, when you buy domestic goods you keep people in your county employed, they buy stuff in your county and this keeps you employed. When you buy foreign goods it keeps the people who manufactured those goods employed they buy stuff in their country and keep people in their country employed. I believe its called transfer of wealth.

Bullshit, there are a lot of other competitors ready to step up and take over GM's spots and those companies will or already have plants set up here in the US.

And please, look up mercantilism as that is the practice of buying things only in house and limiting or barring imports. It was a system in the 1500's-1700's and theres a reason it failed.
 
How can you say that?? Toyota employs thousands of Americans in manufacturing plants in the US..

In 13 locations across North America, more than 36,000 team members are producing* over 1.3 million vehicles, more than 1.5 million engines, and nearly 400,000 automatic transmissions per year. In fact, 11 Toyota and Lexus models are built in North America with parts purchased from hundreds of North American supplier locations.

Our annual U.S. spending on parts, goods and services with suppliers totals more than $28 billion** and counting, as Toyota continues to grow and build more vehicles, engines and transmissions in North America.

Here are some figures from Honda....

Honda now has 10 manufacturing plants in America, with three new plants under construction:
$550 million plant for production of the Honda Civic Sedan (2008) in Greensburg, Indiana
$100 million plant for production of the innovative HondaJet (2010) in Greensboro, North Carolina
$27 million fuel-efficient jet engine plant in Burlington, North Carolina.
Employment of nearly 27,000 associates in manufacturing, R&D, sales and other operations
U.S. capital investment of nearly $9 billion
More than $17.1 billion in parts and materials purchased from U.S. suppliers in 2007 – a $1.5 billion increase from the previous year.


General Motors needs to get rid of some of their divisions.. They have seven divisions (chevy, buick, pontiac, gmc, saturn, hummer, saab, and cadillac) when foreign companies have one or two..

While you definitely drove it home, I could agree that higher tariffs should be placed on foreign vehicles, problem is, most of the foreign vehicles everyone drives are made right here in the US, while a large amount of motors and other parts for American cars are imported from Japan. Increasing tariffs will also drive the cost of American cars up.... until they decide to build in-country or outsource to a 3rd world country (Mexico?).

Just FYI, a Prius in the US is about $5000+ cheaper to buy in the US than here in Japan, the same goes for all other cars that are sold both here and there in the US. They raise the prices locally to get prices in the US lower to encourage sales. Because they know that there are more cars being sold in the US than in Japan.

Japan also imports a lot from the US so it is a two way street. Japan currently imports $144 million in rice annually. The rising population has killed a lot of rice (Kome) farmers. I could list more but would you all get the point?
 
Apparently you don't need to actually know anything about macroeconomics to be an expert on it.
 
THE SAD THING IS. after you bail them out what happens?... if the economy can not support the big three now, why later..? this may be putting a band aid on a severed limb.. they will more than likely come to this again.. then what?.. bail them out again?.. what about other industrys? do we now bail out the textil industry if they need it.. well, ya have to if ya do the auto industry.. where does it stop?. now, that being said, it is not the auto workers fault.. so why are they going to get punished.. it really is a double edged sword..
I agree. This problem didn't just pop up. It's been going on for many years yet, the automakers have done nothing to address it. If it wasn't because they employ so many people, I'd say let them go down. That's what happens when companies aren't managed properly. :mad:
 
While you definitely drove it home, I could agree that higher tariffs should be placed on foreign vehicles, problem is, most of the foreign vehicles everyone drives are made right here in the US, while a large amount of motors and other parts for American cars are imported from Japan. Increasing tariffs will also drive the cost of American cars up.... until they decide to build in-country or outsource to a 3rd world country (Mexico?).

Just FYI, a Prius in the US is about $5000+ cheaper to buy in the US than here in Japan, the same goes for all other cars that are sold both here and there in the US. They raise the prices locally to get prices in the US lower to encourage sales. Because they know that there are more cars being sold in the US than in Japan.

Japan also imports a lot from the US so it is a two way street. Japan currently imports $144 million in rice annually. The rising population has killed a lot of rice (Kome) farmers. I could list more but would you all get the point?


My grandfathers Chrysler Sebring was built in Mexico.
In high school, my Civic was built in Canada.
Look where Camrys and Toyotas are built...
Hell, BMW has a plant in, I believe, Georgia?
 
Question: what would happen to GM and FORD if they decided to do away with the UNIONS at their plants and made it a non union plant? Would the people suffer or would the unions suffer? If you paid a worker $20 and hour versus a union member paid at $30 and hour who would suffer? The plant or the union?
 
My opinion....

its all part of a bigger plan.....

These officials aren't as stupid as people like to think....

The goal was was to bankrupt the banks...
In order for Government to bail them out, and have control over there...
The Government will eventually go bankrupt (which is part of the plan) and the dollar will continue to devalue...

The outcome will be another form of bail out. this time by the World Bank.

Then you will see a new currency introduced to American. Either the Euro or Amero which they have talked about for quite some time...

ITs already being discussed actually.

the plan is centralization of power and world government.
 
its all part of a bigger plan.....

These officials aren't as stupid as people like to think....

The goal was was to bankrupt the banks...
In order for Government to bail them out, and have control over there...
The Government will eventually go bankrupt (which is part of the plan) and the dollar will continue to devalue...

The outcome will be another form of bail out. this time by the World Bank.

Then you will see a new currency introduced to American. Either the Euro or Amero which they have talked about for quite some time...

ITs already being discussed actually.

the plan is centralization of power and world government.

Thank you! I'm not the only one who feels that way.
 
its all part of a bigger plan.....

These officials aren't as stupid as people like to think....

The goal was was to bankrupt the banks...
In order for Government to bail them out, and have control over there...
The Government will eventually go bankrupt (which is part of the plan) and the dollar will continue to devalue...

The outcome will be another form of bail out. this time by the World Bank.

Then you will see a new currency introduced to American. Either the Euro or Amero which they have talked about for quite some time...

ITs already being discussed actually.

the plan is centralization of power and world government.

sound like the bible writes the truth! the end of the world it actually near. although it may still take another 500+ years.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Total page views
576,130,626
Threads
138,450
Messages
2,857,155
Members
161,444
Latest member
asd222
NapsGear
HGH Power Store email banner
yourdailyvitamins
Prowrist straps store banner
yourrawmaterials
3
raws
Savage Labs Store email
Syntherol Site Enhancing Oil Synthol
aqpharma
yms-GIF-210x131-Banne-B
hulabs
ezgif-com-resize-2-1
MA Research Chem store banner
MA Supps Store Banner
volartek
Keytech banner
thc
Godbullraw-bottom-banner
Injection Instructions for beginners
YMS-210x131-V02
Back
Top