Running GH for fatloss while avoiding insulin resistance?

[juicin]

Hey guys


1) what is the best time of the day to take GH for fatloss? And subq or IM? I would LOVE to take it in the morning, as most suggest, but i already have a hard enough staying awake at work as it is (i heard GH can make you very tired).

2) this whole thing about insulin resistance is scaring me a bit, i don't want to risk getting type II diabetes in the long run. any info on this is appreciated thanks guys.

 

[bigguns078]

For fatloss take in the absence of insulin since it will blunt lipolysis.. That is why early AM on empty stomach is prefered w/cardio to metabolize those free fatty acids.. But you can be in a caloric deficit/fast and administer GH and have successful lipolysis..

 

[Amazon Doll]

I have never heard of gh causing insulin resistance. I know that taking insulin can cause it.

 

[LBJK88981]

I have never heard of gh causing insulin resistance. I know that taking insulin can cause it.

GH will cause preferential metabolism of fatty acids over glucose. This is why it is generally recommended to take insulin with GH in the morning - the carbohydrates eaten with breakfast will elevate blood glucose, while the GH causes preferential fatty acid metabolism thus causing a "transient" rise in blood glucose. With very large doses of GH, it may be a good idea to take insulin, however with smaller doses in the range of 2-4iu, I do not always recommend it. In fact I prefer taking GH at night. Usually people think that taking it at night will suppress natural GH output. This is not the complete story - HGH causes IGF-1 levels to increase. This takes hours post-injection to peak. Once IGF-1 levels become elevated, somatostatin levels rise and act to suppress HGH/IGF-1 levels. (sort of a built-in counter-regulatory system).

If you take HGH in the morning, you will likely be suppressing HGH release at night due to delayed onset elevated IGF-1 and thus elevated somatostatin.

I would much rather see someone taking their HGH at night to create a large pulse in HGH levels during the time at which the body is accustomed to a pulse in HGH.

-Alex

 

[hilly2008]

GH will cause preferential metabolism of fatty acids over glucose. This is why it is generally recommended to take insulin with GH in the morning - the carbohydrates eaten with breakfast will elevate blood glucose, while the GH causes preferential fatty acid metabolism thus causing a "transient" rise in blood glucose. With very large doses of GH, it may be a good idea to take insulin, however with smaller doses in the range of 2-4iu, I do not always recommend it. In fact I prefer taking GH at night. Usually people think that taking it at night will suppress natural GH output. This is not the complete story - HGH causes IGF-1 levels to increase. This takes hours post-injection to peak. Once IGF-1 levels become elevated, somatostatin levels rise and act to suppress HGH/IGF-1 levels. (sort of a built-in counter-regulatory system).

If you take HGH in the morning, you will likely be suppressing HGH release at night due to delayed onset elevated IGF-1 and thus elevated somatostatin.

I would much rather see someone taking their HGH at night to create a large pulse in HGH levels during the time at which the body is accustomed to a pulse in HGH.

-Alex

I like this and agree, altho another option and many report good gains would be to shoot the gh pwo with insulin. there fore getting the benefits of both working together while protein synthesis is elevated from training

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

Hey guys


1) what is the best time of the day to take GH for fatloss? And subq or IM? I would LOVE to take it in the morning, as most suggest, but i already have a hard enough staying awake at work as it is (i heard GH can make you very tired).

2) this whole thing about insulin resistance is scaring me a bit, i don't want to risk getting type II diabetes in the long run. any info on this is appreciated thanks guys.

I would take it before bed on an empty stomach.........SUb Q.....use 2-4 iu at MOST......you wont need slin and BG will remain somewhat stable..........

 

[LBJK88981]

I would take it before bed on an empty stomach.........SUb Q.....use 2-4 iu at MOST......you wont need slin and BG will remain somewhat stable..........

I agree. For fatloss 2-4iu before bed is plenty. Also, to comment on the previous post... taking slin PWO with HGH is a synergistic combination...if you buy into the PWO insulin spike thing..I do not. Also, this method would be primarily designed for muscle growth, not fat loss.

-Alex

 

[PHIL HERNON]

I agree. For fatloss 2-4iu before bed is plenty. Also, to comment on the previous post... taking slin PWO with HGH is a synergistic combination...if you buy into the PWO insulin spike thing..I do not. Also, this method would be primarily designed for muscle growth, not fat loss.

-Alex

Neither do I......

 

[bigguns078]

GH will cause preferential metabolism of fatty acids over glucose. This is why it is generally recommended to take insulin with GH in the morning - the carbohydrates eaten with breakfast will elevate blood glucose, while the GH causes preferential fatty acid metabolism thus causing a "transient" rise in blood glucose. With very large doses of GH, it may be a good idea to take insulin, however with smaller doses in the range of 2-4iu, I do not always recommend it. In fact I prefer taking GH at night. Usually people think that taking it at night will suppress natural GH output. This is not the complete story - HGH causes IGF-1 levels to increase. This takes hours post-injection to peak. Once IGF-1 levels become elevated, somatostatin levels rise and act to suppress HGH/IGF-1 levels. (sort of a built-in counter-regulatory system).

If you take HGH in the morning, you will likely be suppressing HGH release at night due to delayed onset elevated IGF-1 and thus elevated somatostatin.

I would much rather see someone taking their HGH at night to create a large pulse in HGH levels during the time at which the body is accustomed to a pulse in HGH.

-Alex

Why would you want to take GH for fatloss before bed? GH releases fatty acids in the bloodstream, available for energy usage.. But then you are going to bed and are entering your most inactive state of the entire day.. I don't see how sleeping will maximize energy expenditure.. Unless you do some sort of cardio after your GH injection and then go to bed.. Free fatty acids or ketones will be redeposited as fat if they are not used for energy..

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

Why would you want to take GH for fatloss before bed? GH releases fatty acids in the bloodstream, available for energy usage.. But then you are going to bed and are entering your most inactive state of the entire day.. I don't see how sleeping will maximize energy expenditure.. Unless you do some sort of cardio after your GH injection and then go to bed.. Free fatty acids or ketones will be redeposited as fat if they are not used for energy..

During REM the body naturally produces more growth hormone......you are just adding to that pulse.......and will burn more fat while sleeping which is the energy source used while at rest.....but I see your thinking

 

[gazgazo]

During REM the body naturally produces more growth hormone......you are just adding to that pulse.......and will burn more fat while sleeping which is the energy source used while at rest.....but I see your thinking

Interesting. What about the argument that taking external GH will cause the body to stop producing it naturally? Especially, during sleep given that there is plenty of gh in your body cause you just injected right before bed. Is that a myth?

 

[PHIL HERNON]

I think

Interesting. What about the argument that taking external GH will cause the body to stop producing it naturally? Especially, during sleep given that there is plenty of gh in your body cause you just injected right before bed. Is that a myth?

Depends upon how fast you get to REM.....

 

[juicin]

GH will cause preferential metabolism of fatty acids over glucose. This is why it is generally recommended to take insulin with GH in the morning - the carbohydrates eaten with breakfast will elevate blood glucose, while the GH causes preferential fatty acid metabolism thus causing a "transient" rise in blood glucose. With very large doses of GH, it may be a good idea to take insulin, however with smaller doses in the range of 2-4iu, I do not always recommend it. In fact I prefer taking GH at night. Usually people think that taking it at night will suppress natural GH output. This is not the complete story - HGH causes IGF-1 levels to increase. This takes hours post-injection to peak. Once IGF-1 levels become elevated, somatostatin levels rise and act to suppress HGH/IGF-1 levels. (sort of a built-in counter-regulatory system).

If you take HGH in the morning, you will likely be suppressing HGH release at night due to delayed onset elevated IGF-1 and thus elevated somatostatin.

I would much rather see someone taking their HGH at night to create a large pulse in HGH levels during the time at which the body is accustomed to a pulse in HGH.

-Alex

Alex, forgive my ignorance but:
So if im understanding you right you are basically saying that once a person injects GH and then goes to bed, enters REM sleep, and releases "natural" growth hormone, the supression from the prior injection of GH will NOT end up supressing the natural GH spike at night since the synthetic GH has not been given enough time to create its "supression" effects?

What are your thoughts on what bigguns said about being in such an inactive state that possibly the fatty acids that are released may not be utilized?

Both are great points

 

[juicin]

I would take it before bed on an empty stomach.........SUb Q.....use 2-4 iu at MOST......you wont need slin and BG will remain somewhat stable..........

I take in a shake of 25grams whey and 25 grams Casein before bed.... will this hamper the fatloss at all?

Also, right now i am dieting so its not really much of a big deal to go to sleep on an empty stomach, but when i'm back to bulking i normally pack myself with food before i go to sleep.... otherwise im up constantly in the middle of the night rummaging through the cabinets. Should GH still be taken SQ before bed when bulking? (even when i plan to start bulking, the main purpose i would be using GH is still for the fatloss aspect of the drug- although i dont expect to be losing fat when bulking obviously, but staying @ the same bf% would be nice)

thanks phil

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Here is another issue

I take in a shake of 25grams whey and 25 grams Casein before bed.... will this hamper the fatloss at all?

Also, right now i am dieting so its not really much of a big deal to go to sleep on an empty stomach, but when i'm back to bulking i normally pack myself with food before i go to sleep.... otherwise im up constantly in the middle of the night rummaging through the cabinets. Should GH still be taken SQ before bed when bulking? (even when i plan to start bulking, the main purpose i would be using GH is still for the fatloss aspect of the drug- although i dont expect to be losing fat when bulking obviously, but staying @ the same bf% would be nice)

thanks phil

Well, here is another issue......you think you need 50 grams of protein and no fat or carbs before bed? Why is this? Are you hungry or just planning on being hungry?

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

Alex, forgive my ignorance but:
So if im understanding you right you are basically saying that once a person injects GH and then goes to bed, enters REM sleep, and releases "natural" growth hormone, the supression from the prior injection of GH will NOT end up supressing the natural GH spike at night since the synthetic GH has not been given enough time to create its "supression" effects?

What are your thoughts on what bigguns said about being in such an inactive state that possibly the fatty acids that are released may not be utilized?

Both are great points

He is saying to coordinate it with your bodies own pulse of GH.......I would NOT take it 2-4 hours before going to bed........then you could possibly interfere because of the raise in somotostatin levels supressing GH/IGF-1 output, following the raise in IGF levels.........from the GH shot....see the loop?

 

[kscowboy]

Hey Phil-I know you are pretty much against all fat burning drugs i.e. clen, t3 etc.....But do you feel that GH at around 2 to 4 i.u. ed is a safer alternative? Would GH for fat loss be something you would advocate (For the sake of argument lets say diet, workout and cardio are all in check).

 

[LBJK88981]

He is saying to coordinate it with your bodies own pulse of GH.......I would NOT take it 2-4 hours before going to bed........then you could possibly interfere because of the raise in somotostatin levels supressing GH/IGF-1 output, following the raise in IGF levels.........from the GH shot....see the loop?

Exactly. You will likely find the best results this way. Take it soon before bed, with some protein and no carbs other than fibrous vegetables. The amino acids from the protein will aid in the liver's manufacturing of IGF-1 from the HGH pulse.

we cannot say for certain whether you will or will not suppress your natural pulse. Likely you will add to it and not interfere too greatly..that is if your timing is correct. I would simply take the 2-4iu shot as your are getting ready to go to sleep for the night.

as far as fatty acid metabolism - your body will preferentially burn fatty acids during sleep anyway. They are a slow burning, more efficient energy source while at rest. (think of the logic behind steady state cardio burning mostly fat calories...at resting or moderate heart rates the body can efficiently derive energy from fatty acids). This happens during sleep anyway so you are only complementing the effect. Taking HGH in the morning more or less interferes with the metabolic cascade that takes place naturally. Let your body burn glucose when it needs to (in the morning when active) and fatty acids when it best uses them (at night or at rest).

exogenous HGH provides all of the benefits to a bodybuilder that natural HGH does...but to a greater degree. It stands to reason that if natural HGH pulses occur at night while sleeping, that this would be the best time to "amplify" the effect of HGH with a supraphysiological dose. In other words - this is when the body knows best what to do with HGH so why inject it any other time?

-Alex

 

[hilly2008]

alex, phil

if one was looking more at gaining lean tissue and not diet for a show say take the growth pre bed - when would you recomended taking insulin. pre workout then with breakfast the next day? I agree with what you both said insulin makes alot more sense pre workout than it does pwo.

 

[juicin]

Well, here is another issue......you think you need 50 grams of protein and no fat or carbs before bed? Why is this? Are you hungry or just planning on being hungry?

I'm not sure what your getting at; should i not have a protein shake before bed when dieting?

I try to avoid carbs and fat at night to try to avoid any fat increase from my body being in such an inactive state.

Is eating a meal of fat/pro/carbs before bed ok to do while bulking? I always thought it was (in order to provide max muscle growth/repair) ?