Sorry total O/T... Should schools teach....

[gooey]

evolution and "intelligent design" as both educational way that human may have evolved? Not to offend anyone but I believe NO, if one wants to learn creationism they should go to church. A ruling in PA may effect all schools in the future. In the last few years church and state have been getting fearfully closer and closer and it scares me that as a country we are taking steps back instead of forward.
gooey

 

[flexmaster]

if you are going to teach one then why not the other??? it can't hurt to be educated, no matter how wrong you think a person's view may be...i think THAT is taking steps forward. i respect your opinion though...

 

[Maverick]

This is a very touchy subject for most people becuase alot of people who are christian dont want thier kids being taught evolution in school. I think it should be taught with a preface that this is one science of thinking just as creationism is one way of thinking. God and State have always been together. I know people say there have been getting closer but in reality even though our constiution calls for a seperation of church and state , look at the role chuch and religion has in our government since the very beginning of the US back in its inception in 1776.

Our money has " in god we trust" written all over it. Our pledge has " one nation under god" ( although they are trying tio get rid of that part). Go back and look at the annals of history of this country, jesus and god and religion are everywhere so in reality its not going to go away and its not going to get and closer or farther than it already is.

What in my opinion needs to stop is there are arguements that muslim theology should be taught in school much like the civil war or WW1 or ww2 is. I think thats crap. Islam and muslim religion and movements are the exact same thing as christianity in the fact islam and muslim movements are religion based. If your gonna say " get rid of religion in school" then get rid of muslim , islam, buddha, and any other form of religion, otherwise is persecution and predjudice against one religion and thats not right.

If you gonna teach evolution then teach everything else from a historic or scientific view just the same.


Mav

 

[glenihan]

personally i think only evolution should be taught since it can be taught without any reference to a higher power .. whereas i fail to see how creationism can be taught without reference to a god

IMHO since evolution can be scientifically explained it has a place in schools .. i can't see a strictly scientific basis in creationism .. which should keep it in churches, mosques, etc.

 

[Maverick]

Well I tend to disagree about the creationism being able to explain totally how we eveolved from apes. I watched a 5 hour discovery channell piece on how man evolved from apes and it covered the evolution through many different forms or proto-man apes etc and how they werent able to survive over many years due to thier brain size etc. But after that last proto -ape/ man they went stright to neanderthals and cavemen type humans.

They never really expalined how proto-human and cavemen came from apes. Yes there are similarities but the direct evolution was never explained and to this day I havent ever heard it and i am fascinated by this subject. Do I believe we evolved from apes? No I do not. I think we evolved from proto humans that have always been here.

How we evolved or how everything was created will always be in debate but something is certain a higher power or god or whatever you want to call it created everything. People can say the big band theory created the universe, well what created the big bang and the gasses and rock and etc. Something somewhere had to create the universe. Everything even the universe has a beginning and an end, so something infinite had to have created.

Now whether or not that was jesus and god remains to be seen. To just totally dismiss god and jesus and such would be foolish becuase there have been documented cases of supernatural experiences which if there was no god and such, there would be no such experiences or recorded cases.

I think everybody needs to find a common ground and pick a side and respect the fact that you may agree or disagree with somebody else's viewpoints but that doesnt automatically make yours right or thier wrong or vice versa.

The only way we know what the truth is ,is when we die. Then we will know for sure that there is a god and a heaven and a hell etc or if life just ends and nothing more.

I would like to believe there is a life after death in some form. Life would be pretty pointless to just exist for 80-90 years and then just die, even though the point of life is to reproduce so the speices lives on. There has to be a higher purpose for all our lives not just to live now and thats it.

just my 2 cents.


Mav

 

[billycarp]

evolution and "intelligent design" as both educational way that human may have evolved? Not to offend anyone but I believe NO, if one wants to learn creationism they should go to church. A ruling in PA may effect all schools in the future. In the last few years church and state have been getting fearfully closer and closer and it scares me that as a country we are taking steps back instead of forward.
gooey

Simply stated "separation of church and state" as you eluded to.

 

[STORM SHADOW]

This is a very touchy subject for most people becuase alot of people who are christian dont want thier kids being taught evolution in school. I think it should be taught with a preface that this is one science of thinking just as creationism is one way of thinking. God and State have always been together. I know people say there have been getting closer but in reality even though our constiution calls for a seperation of church and state , look at the role chuch and religion has in our government since the very beginning of the US back in its inception in 1776.

Our money has " in god we trust" written all over it. Our pledge has " one nation under god" ( although they are trying tio get rid of that part). Go back and look at the annals of history of this country, jesus and god and religion are everywhere so in reality its not going to go away and its not going to get and closer or farther than it already is.

What in my opinion needs to stop is there are arguements that muslim theology should be taught in school much like the civil war or WW1 or ww2 is. I think thats crap. Islam and muslim religion and movements are the exact same thing as christianity in the fact islam and muslim movements are religion based. If your gonna say " get rid of religion in school" then get rid of muslim , islam, buddha, and any other form of religion, otherwise is persecution and predjudice against one religion and thats not right.

If you gonna teach evolution then teach everything else from a historic or scientific view just the same.


Mav

Poli Sci having to be my cup of tea.. you're actually incorrect. The Constitution which is only about 4 pages long...very short document is a restriction on Gov't...not the people. Nowhere in the Constitution is there 'Seperation of Church and State'. That was actually only a 'COINED' phrase by Thomas Jefferson. The Constitution does call for a 'Freedom of Religion' but NOT Freedom FROM religion. See how that works?

Now though the Consitution does NOT allow for State sponsored religion..there is a great reason for that..but there are ways around that too. Our Country is Founded on 'Judeo/Christian Ethical Monothesism'. It cannot be denied.

Either way...take it out of the schools...take it off the money... do whatever one wants. Christians have been through worse. In Ancient Rome.. word was sent to the Emperor that with all the slaughter and torture of the Christians to expell the religion from the empire..they gather more followers 10 fold. The people being tortured by totally Draconian measures would still call to Jesus to take them. He remarked to the Emperor "maybe they have something here...I've never seen people under such torture stay true to a belief".

In Rwanda recently...over 10,000 black Christians were slaughtered and most beheaded all because they believe Christ is the Savior. I won't get into what religion did that to them..this is not a place for Religious Warfare. But slaughtered all in the name of Christ.

So be it... try as one may...they will not get rid of us. We grow by the millions per year.

SS

P.S. The first raids just before the Crusades that slaughtered thousands of old men/women/children were not by Christians...the Crusades were in response to the religion that first attacked.

 

[Maverick]

Poli Sci having to be my cup of tea.. you're actually incorrect. The Constitution which is only about 4 pages long...very short document is a restriction on Gov't...not the people. Nowhere in the Constitution is there 'Seperation of Church and State'. That was actually only a 'COINED' phrase by Thomas Jefferson. The Constitution does call for a 'Freedom of Religion' but NOT Freedom FROM religion. See how that works?

Now though the Consitution does NOT allow for State sponsored religion..there is a great reason for that..but there are ways around that too. Our Country is Founded on 'Judeo/Christian Ethical Monothesism'. It cannot be denied.

Either way...take it out of the schools...take it off the money... do whatever one wants. Christians have been through worse. In Ancient Rome.. word was sent to the Emperor that with all the slaughter and torture of the Christians to expell the religion from the empire..they gather more followers 10 fold. The people being tortured by totally Draconian measures would still call to Jesus to take them. He remarked to the Emperor "maybe they have something here...I've never seen people under such torture stay true to a belief".

In Rwanda recently...over 10,000 black Christians were slaughtered and most beheaded all because they believe Christ is the Savior. I won't get into what religion did that to them..this is not a place for Religious Warfare. But slaughtered all in the name of Christ.

So be it... try as one may...they will not get rid of us. We grow by the millions per year.

SS

P.S. The first raids just before the Crusades that slaughtered thousands of old men/women/children were not by Christians...the Crusades were in response to the religion that first attacked.

Sorry dude, I didnt have my copy of the constitution in front of me. But thanks for clearing it up.


Mav

 

[jawbreakerkid]

I went to a Catholic High School, we were taught evolution in science and in religion class we covered creationism. I think it depends on region, denomination, etc on what stance they take in school. But in a public school, I feel that only evolution should be covered. A private school has room to make these decisions, and I believe my school approached it correctly, but to bring religious viewpoints into a public school is wrong IMO.

 

[callgolf]

Separation Doesn't Exist

Simply stated "separation of church and state" as you eluded to.

I don't think they should teach anything of the like, they would screw it up. These teachers and unions screw everything up, remember New Math, you wouldn't get the right answer, but you could talk about how the equation made you feel. I am lucky I went to Catholic school from Junior high on, I avoided the brainwashing that takes place in public schools.

Not to change the subject, but there is this lie that is told over and over again in this country that needs to stop. There exists no place in the Constitution/Bill of Rights/Amendments that says there can be no religion within the public square. This is a classic case of repeating a lie over and over again, Goebbels taught us you can convince the public of lies if you do so. Socialists use the line in the Constitution where it mentions that the government won't favor one religion over another as being cause for banning all religion from the public schools, buildings, money and the like. Doesn't exist, quit using it, this isn't Soviet Russia, we can have religion freedom in public display without worrying about some commissar busting down your door and serving you with a endictment.

 

[STORM SHADOW]

I don't think they should teach anything of the like, they would screw it up. These teachers and unions screw everything up, remember New Math, you wouldn't get the right answer, but you could talk about how the equation made you feel. I am lucky I went to Catholic school from Junior high on, I avoided the brainwashing that takes place in public schools.

Not to change the subject, but there is this lie that is told over and over again in this country that needs to stop. There exists no place in the Constitution/Bill of Rights/Amendments that says there can be no religion within the public square. This is a classic case of repeating a lie over and over again, Goebbels taught us you can convince the public of lies if you do so. Socialists use the line in the Constitution where it mentions that the government won't favor one religion over another as being cause for banning all religion from the public schools, buildings, money and the like. Doesn't exist, quit using it, this isn't Soviet Russia, we can have religion freedom in public display without worrying about some commissar busting down your door and serving you with a endictment.

I love you man!

Goebbels "tell a lie enough times and the masses see it as truth"
#1 PSYOP Measure used by all major militaries.

SS

 

[xcelbeyond]

When this country was founded, they did not want to make the same mistakes as the mother country - England. Hence, the term "separation of church and state." This meant that the "church" could not rule the government as it did in England. Now in all our wisdom, we can basically "interpret" it as we see fit - but that was not its' intent.

Some things are so simple and understood when they are written but their meaning becomes lost in time, especially when someone wants to interpret it to their liking.

I'm currently dealing with some federal legislation (1987) that regulates manufacturing (we deal with installation). The law says that states must adopt these standards as installation standards "within a reasonable time period." Now tell me what that means. We are probably going to be challenged with multi-million $ lawsuit over this one.

 

[SDMan]

"if you are going to teach one then why not the other??? it can't hurt to be educated"

Well, one is a science that attempts to prove the origin of the species using empirical evidence and repeatable experiments. The other uses mythology and legend.

The problem most devout Christians have with evolution is the fear that it may disprove a lot of their beliefs. What they fail to understand is that studying evolution may in fact prove some of those beliefs. Nevertheless, adhering to an ancient text and ignoring evidence that exists all around us is not what God would intend, IMO.

 

[Conan21]

when i was in school

we learned both. They didn't teach either one as being right or wrong. just presented the two beliefs. and on the test we were asked to describe the two.

i don't think evolution can be taught as true. Its not proven that we are the next step from cave men. why do you thing scientists always discuss "THE MISSING LINK".

I have some interesting reading about this subject that is pretty wild but i'm not going to post in on here b/c alot of people are not open minded. not necessarily what i believe or don't believe but very interesting none the less. its involves this topic and involve a mixture of both evolution and creationism.

 

[davelifter]

"Its not proven that we are the next step from cave men. why do you thing scientists always discuss "THE MISSING LINK"."

Conan, you are absolutely wrong. Where do you get your facts from?
It IS proven that we are the next step up from cave men. The evidence is clear and absolute. Where have you been?

 

[Fuel]

I feel teaching all posabilitys is the best way. This way people can make an educated decision, and not just repeat what they have been told. I know my uncle is a devoted christian and if you ask him a question he cant ansewer he just gets irritated.

Goebbels "tell a lie enough times and the masses see it as truth".. This could also apply to any religion couldnt it??

IMO I dont see there is any harm being done to our children by haveing them say in god we trust. Its up to us parents to teach right and wrong.

 

[Conan21]

davelifter

what is the missing link then?

 

[flexmaster]

"if you are going to teach one then why not the other??? it can't hurt to be educated"

Well, one is a science that attempts to prove the origin of the species using empirical evidence and repeatable experiments. The other uses mythology and legend.

The problem most devout Christians have with evolution is the fear that it may disprove a lot of their beliefs. What they fail to understand is that studying evolution may in fact prove some of those beliefs. Nevertheless, adhering to an ancient text and ignoring evidence that exists all around us is not what God would intend, IMO.

and christianity has no evidence to support it's beliefs??? you mentioned evidence that exists all around us...please, tell me where all this evidence ORIGINALLY came? science says matter can niether be created or destroyed...so, where did it come from? hhhhmmmm....i personally have no problem learning about evolution, i think its interesting actually. and yes i am a christian as well. while i strongly believe there is no evolution from species to species (ie. ape--->human) i do believe in evolution within a species, or survival of the fittest. this cannot be argued in my opinion. its easy to see and understand how the individuals best suited for an environment will have the best chance to pass on thier genes to future generations, and the "weaker" individuals will not live to pass on thier genes. but apes evolving into humans? or dog-like animals evolving into whales? c'mon, i think THAT takes more faith to believe that believing there is a God and He created us. just my opinion though...you are more than welcome to yours! later

 

[troponin]

Science is supposed to follow the scientific method. A faith based science doesn't do this. If a "theory" of intelligent design can be concluded following the scientific method, then it is a teachable theory. Until then, it is a faith based idea, and should not be taught as a science.

 

[Fuel]

Science says matter can niether be created nor destroyed... Ive heard this argument before, and thats why people will justify there being a creator. What I want to know is who created the creator? Everytime I ask this All I hear is... he's just always been there... Well if thats true why couldnt the earth and all other things just have always been there?