Supplement use in the "off-season"

[gooey]

Most use many supps for pre contest prep, but want to know who values and who uses supplements year round and which are the most important to the individual during the off season or non contest prep? And by supps I do mean OTC, that u get at ur supplement store or online.
goo

 

[bigbadasian]

Reply

|--[\\\]>--------- well you know me G...you just introduced me to the creatine you brought home...basically, glutamine and whey protein. pretty basic for me, now if i ever get 'off' then i'll tell you what other things i'll add to the mix LOL!

 

[Rex Feral]

Some consider protein powder a supplement, some don't. Its a matter of semantics. I don't feel the need classify it. That being said, the only other supplements I use in the off-season are those which are geared towards management of common deficiencies/general health, pre and post workout "nutrition" and stimulants.

Multi Vitamin Multi Min to include @ least: 1 gm C, 400IU E (d as opposed to dl when possible), 15-25,000IU beta carotene, 200mcg selenium, 1 gm calcium, 500mg magnesium (or take ZMA), B50 complex.

Joint Support: 1500-3000mg Glucosamine, 1200-2400mg chondroitin, 1-3 gms MSM.

Omega 3's: @ least 3 gms/day. That's 10 x 180/120 gels.

Pre-Post Workout: I use what Milos calls the "Fed Ex" system. 5-10 gms creatine, 5-10 gms glutamine (preferably peptides), 50-150gms dextrose/50-75 gms whey. Vitagro is probably best if you are not averse to paying $8/# for a carb. I can't bring myself to do it personally. Sometimes I like to add BCAAs, if budget permits. I add taurine @ 5-10 gms post as well. I actually prefer Gatorade pre during the off season.

ZMA: most multi vit/min will be lacking in magnesium and even if they are not calcium and mag compete for absorption, so I opt for ZMA qhs. Its cheap and helps some people with regard to sleep patterns. Melatonin @ 1-3mg can be added here as well.

Ephedrine HCL & Caffeine 50mg/200mg 2-3 x per day. Pre workout I usually take 100/400.

There are many variations within this cost wise of course. More concentrated fish oil for example, quality of proteins, type of creatine, etc, etc. There are also other considerations to specific situations, like Slo-Niacin if ldl/hdl ratios are an issue and if you are not using 17aa orals, in which case you want to explore regular niacin. But this is a good basic guideline for off season supplementation & general health. It is up to you and your pocketbook if you want to exceed the mins and evaluate if you are able to achieve greater efficacy.

Rex.

 

[AWN2004]

Well.....seeing as most are trying to get the very most out of the nutritional aspect of the off-season, Id try to use just a couple things to help fill any "gaps" I had in my diet.

Glutamine
Multi mineral
multi vitamin
a good liver detox or milk thistle along with grape seed extract
Various proteins (of course)
vitamin C (extra)
Udo's oil
water (I say this because many often forget how crucial this really is)

One thing I certainly would not do on a regular basis is an ECA stack. That can prove to be pretty damaging to your kidneys and other organs over time. Its bad enough the things we do to better ourselves as athletes so anything I know I can avoid doing that keeps my health in check is a good idea in my opinion.

 

[Rex Feral]

One thing I certainly would not do on a regular basis is an ECA stack. That can prove to be pretty damaging to your kidneys and other organs over time.

Do you have any empirical evidence to support your claim?

Rex.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Besides the staples like protein powder/creatine etc

For Immune System (mine has always been subpar until i hit this key stack)
Astralagus
Oliveleaf extract
Beta Glucans

For overall health
multivitamin
vitamin E
cal mag zinc

For control of prolactin levels (and health reasons) the following 2 supplements
Vitex
Bit B-6

For heart health and a myriad of other factors
1)Coenzyme Q10 (saw recently where 70% of studied heart attack patients had a distinct deficiency-and also anyone on Lipotor or statin drugs should note that those compounds wipe out coenzyme q10 almost completely)
2)green tea extract

For digestion (thanks to Massive G for helping me on some of this--improved my digestion immensely)
ginger root (digestion and anticoagulant)
acidophilus (with pectin)
metamucil (once a day powder in one of my early day protein shakes)
papaya/bromelain

For Joint health
chrondroit/glucosamine

I believe anyone using super supplements (and even those who dont) should be supplementing with the top 3 of the following items or they are comprimising their health
1)Niacin (ldl/hdl ratio)
2)Omega Fish oils EPA DHA (3 grams a day same as rex said above)
3)sylmarin
4)avena sative and nettle root (for shbg levels)

thats me personally but i put in bold what i feel strongly about that people should be taking

 

[AWN2004]

There have been a bunch of studies on how ephedrine raises your BP. Thats no real surprise though....increasing your heart rate is going to do that to you. Constantly raising your BP is not a good idea though and if you do a google search for anything like "Renal failure and ephedrine" or something close to that, you will find various articles from medical journals. Now of course moderation is the key here. Occasional use of an ECA stack wont kill you, but its just so sketchy to keep doing that to your heart and blood vessels time and time again. Now this is my own personal opinion. Its just not for me. I know guys like Massive G and DC might chime in here if they see this. I just know there have been guys having serious adverse health problems and they all say the same thing about ECA stacks.....they took them for years and if they could go back in time they would have done things a whole lot different. By no means am I saying what you are doing is wrong, Im just saying for me personaly, Id rather take a different route.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I absolutely agree with you AWN (chronic dehydration + chronic elevated blood pressure =disaster in the long run) especially if you add other things compromising those factors to the mix. One thing that stuck with me about that guy who died (massblaster? cant remember his name)--from kidney failure is he admitted he had been on the ECA stack for years on end without a break. I know you have a close freind that is an IFBB pro AWN that has had similiar problems and you probably feel that chronic ECA stack added greatly to his misfortune.

 

[Ashop]

Besides the staples like protein powder/creatine etc

For Immune System (mine has always been subpar until i hit this key stack)
Astralagus
Oliveleaf extract
Beta Glucans

For overall health
multivitamin
vitamin E
cal mag zinc

For control of prolactin levels (and health reasons) the following 2 supplements
Vitex
Bit B-6

For heart health and a myriad of other factors
1)Coenzyme Q10 (saw recently where 70% of studied heart attack patients had a distinct deficiency-and also anyone on Lipotor or statin drugs should note that those compounds wipe out coenzyme q10 almost completely)
2)green tea extract

For digestion (thanks to Massive G for helping me on some of this--improved my digestion immensely)
ginger root (digestion and anticoagulant)
acidophilus (with pectin)
metamucil (once a day powder in one of my early day protein shakes)
papaya/bromelain

For Joint health
chrondroit/glucosamine

I believe anyone using super supplements (and even those who dont) should be supplementing with the top 3 of the following items or they are comprimising their health
1)Niacin (ldl/hdl ratio)
2)Omega Fish oils EPA DHA (3 grams a day same as rex said above)
3)sylmarin
4)avena sative and nettle root (for shbg levels)

thats me personally but i put in bold what i feel strongly about that people should be taking

Valuable information. Great post!

 

[Massive G]

I absolutely agree with you AWN (chronic dehydration + chronic elevated blood pressure =disaster in the long run) especially if you add other things compromising those factors to the mix. One thing that stuck with me about that guy who died (massblaster? cant remember his name)--from kidney failure is he admitted he had been on the ECA stack for years on end without a break. I know you have a close freind that is an IFBB pro AWN that has had similiar problems and you probably feel that chronic ECA stack added greatly to his misfortune.

I am in agreement with AWN/DC
Masswithclass2002 was his name. I can pull up some of his old posts where he stated as such, plus I chatted with him about it. He died last year from complications on kidney dialysis.

I'd be interested to start another thread discussing this and other issues on what's killing BB'ers health-I have a ton of examples from the real world from freinds and guys on the boards who were honest enough to admit where the problems came from.

I'd be interested to see any info people had especially on post work out proteinuria. I spent a few months woking with a nephrologist and a few 24 hr urine tests before he'd believe that the protein in my urine was from heavy training.

 

[gooey]

me, myself and irene......



protein
glutamine
multivitamin/mineral
creatine mono and cee
omega3, 6, 9
arginine
baby aspirin
milk thistle
lycopene
saw palmetto
1000 mg of vit c besides multi
glucosamine/chondroit/msm 1500 mgs day
zma
bcaa's b4 cardio

goo

 

[pushnpull]

Ditto to what Dc and Massive G said.............

I have been on statins for years, and i do feel a loss of power and endurance when not taking Co enzyeme Q10. One supplement I highly recommend is grapeseed extract. My old girlfriends father was a M.D, an internist to be exact and he studied alot of supplements. When i ripped my groin doing leg presses, I was black and blue down to my knee, he put me on high doses of grapeseed and I could not believe how fast I healed, and I've had my share of injuries. I've turned alot of fellow lifters on to it who were injured, and most were very impressed. As far as Massive G's post about protein in the urine, I take quite a few physical's due to my job, and I usually get back a reading of protein in my urine. In fact I took a physical 2 day's a go and it read Protein-30mg/dl. The doctor's assume it is from my heavy protein use as I hope it is to...............................

 

[bigbaldbulldog]

I agree 100% and add nothing to this list

Some consider protein powder a supplement, some don't. Its a matter of semantics. I don't feel the need classify it. That being said, the only other supplements I use in the off-season are those which are geared towards management of common deficiencies/general health, pre and post workout "nutrition" and stimulants.

Multi Vitamin Multi Min to include @ least: 1 gm C, 400IU E (d as opposed to dl when possible), 15-25,000IU beta carotene, 200mcg selenium, 1 gm calcium, 500mg magnesium (or take ZMA), B50 complex.

Joint Support: 1500-3000mg Glucosamine, 1200-2400mg chondroitin, 1-3 gms MSM.

Omega 3's: @ least 3 gms/day. That's 10 x 180/120 gels.

Pre-Post Workout: I use what Milos calls the "Fed Ex" system. 5-10 gms creatine, 5-10 gms glutamine (preferably peptides), 50-150gms dextrose/50-75 gms whey. Vitagro is probably best if you are not averse to paying $8/# for a carb. I can't bring myself to do it personally. Sometimes I like to add BCAAs, if budget permits. I add taurine @ 5-10 gms post as well. I actually prefer Gatorade pre during the off season.

ZMA: most multi vit/min will be lacking in magnesium and even if they are not calcium and mag compete for absorption, so I opt for ZMA qhs. Its cheap and helps some people with regard to sleep patterns. Melatonin @ 1-3mg can be added here as well.

Ephedrine HCL & Caffeine 50mg/200mg 2-3 x per day. Pre workout I usually take 100/400.

There are many variations within this cost wise of course. More concentrated fish oil for example, quality of proteins, type of creatine, etc, etc. There are also other considerations to specific situations, like Slo-Niacin if ldl/hdl ratios are an issue and if you are not using 17aa orals, in which case you want to explore regular niacin. But this is a good basic guideline for off season supplementation & general health. It is up to you and your pocketbook if you want to exceed the mins and evaluate if you are able to achieve greater efficacy.

Rex.

 

[Massive G]

3-6 Multivitamin/mineral tabs (Green Source from Vitamin World)
Vitamins Ester E and Ester C as well as Regular Vit C
MG/Cal
Zinc
When worried about cholesterol levels I add these to my heart stack below:
Red Yeast Rice (natural statin)
Inositol Hexanicotinate/Hexaniacinate (no-flush niacin)
Grape seed extract


Omega III's
Olive Oil
Coenzyme Q10


Zantac (prescribed)
Ginger root
Raw acidophilus
Benecal fiber
Bromelain

Mega dosing these right now:
chrondroit/glucosamine

When wanting to flush liver and kidneys and or when on I would add the following at times:
For liver
Synthergine
TMG (Tri-methyl-glycine)
NAC (N-Acetyl cysteine)
Picro Liv
Milk Thistle
and LIV-52

Kidney/UT
Organic cranberry juice
D-Mannose

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Everyones personal supplement info on this post will be on an Ironman-mr.biceps supplement post within 2 weeks (lol)

 

[PHIL HERNON]

I just heard that

Everyones personal supplement info on this post will be on an Ironman-mr.biceps supplement post within 2 weeks (lol)

He copied and pasted the last 437 pages of this forum verbatim for his new book. He is claiming that I am mad because I wanted to do it first, and that I am losing a ton of cash.