Test dosage you can handle without the use of AI/DHT

gains4000 · Jun 15, 2023

LATS said:
Not to change the subject much.. but I have been talking fairly regular to a international bodybuilder out of kuwait/oxygen gym.. he is well know to most international competitors but maybe not so much here in the states.. he has come off a pretty impressive competitive year..
We have talked quite a bit about EQ recently.. so ill add that this competitor uses EQ as his base.. he said its pretty common there.. EQ is run like you woukd your test.. his eq can run anywhere from 850mgs to 1300 mgs.. then test would be much lower ( 350 to 500mgs) .. he says the eq has much less aromatase activity and essentially " works the same".. he also states it helps with their high volume training.. just food for thought..

I’ve heard the same thing, high EQ base for the middle eastern guys. Lee Haney also was a huge fan of EQ base. I don’t think he really used Testosterone.

LATS · Jun 15, 2023

gains4000 said:
I’ve heard the same thing, high EQ base for the middle eastern guys. Lee Haney also was a huge fan of EQ base. I don’t think he really used Testosterone.

My buddy Dave who i have written about quite a bit on here roomed with haney.. Haney was big into eq as was vic richards.. he said Haney test dosage was low 400 to 600 max..

mslmn · Jun 15, 2023

LATS said:
Not to change the subject much.. but I have been talking fairly regular to a international bodybuilder out of kuwait/oxygen gym.. he is well know to most international competitors but maybe not so much here in the states.. he has come off a pretty impressive competitive year..
We have talked quite a bit about EQ recently.. so ill add that this competitor uses EQ as his base.. he said its pretty common there.. EQ is run like you woukd your test.. his eq can run anywhere from 850mgs to 1300 mgs.. then test would be much lower ( 350 to 500mgs) .. he says the eq has much less aromatase activity and essentially " works the same".. he also states it helps with their high volume training.. just food for thought..

What is his Offseason and Contest weight?

rainstony · Jun 15, 2023

bigzzz said:
That's funny. When I add EQ I aromatize even more, doesn't do shit for my e2.

That's what I expected myself. I pulled ultra sensitive E2 on 600 test 600 eq wirh no AI and was at 17

LATS · Jun 15, 2023

mslmn said:
What is his Offseason and Contest weight?

He competed in 90kg and under

phoenix2 · Jun 15, 2023

LATS said:
Yes.. that is what many don't get.. AI have a negative impact on joints even while e2 is in range.. most studies suggest it has to do with hindering mineral absorption

And like with joints, they can fuck up libido even with e2 in range... Especially letrozole.

royal · Jun 15, 2023

Reno911 said:
Can you try to go a week without starting a new thread? Like just spent at least 1 week playing with the search function.

Triggered much?

Scuncknuts · Jun 15, 2023

If I look at a vial of test I have to go on Letro

Reno911 · Jun 15, 2023

royal said:
Triggered much?

Just by dumb weekly new threads that can be searched for.

Sully1234 · Jun 19, 2023

I guess I fall into the high(er) aromatizing category. 100mg Trest or 500mg test both with 200mg Mast thrown in and I still get itchy nipples.

Just looking for advice. At these points would it be better to add more DHT or AI? Think I'm leaning toward more DHT but I've always kept test 100-200mg for these reasons.

lynxeffect1 · Nov 8, 2023

gains4000 said:
I can run 1000mg without AI. As long as your body is producing enough DHT to compensate for high estrogen buildup, everything will be fine. its all about the androgen:estrogen ratio, not the estrogen level itself.

Have you tested where your estrogen is at when using 1000mg test with no ai ? I've stopped aromotising and now need to use estradiol inj get my estrogen in check but having a difficult time nailing the sweet spot , too low joints destroyed , too high joints full of fluid and gear feels like its not working. No proper sex drive with s long time

pickapeck · Nov 8, 2023

lynxeffect1 said:
Have you tested where your estrogen is at when using 1000mg test with no ai ? I've stopped aromotising and now need to use estradiol inj get my estrogen in check but having a difficult time nailing the sweet spot , too low joints destroyed , too high joints full of fluid and gear feels like its not working. No proper sex drive with s long time

Never heard of that. I have no idea how your aromatase would just stop working in all your tissues. Very strange. something to try maybe is hCG. Your testes will make a good amount of estrogen under stimulus of hCG.

gains4000 · Nov 8, 2023

lynxeffect1 said:
Have you tested where your estrogen is at when using 1000mg test with no ai ? I've stopped aromotising and now need to use estradiol inj get my estrogen in check but having a difficult time nailing the sweet spot , too low joints destroyed , too high joints full of fluid and gear feels like its not working. No proper sex drive with s long time

No do not inject estrogen that is dumb. Go take 50mg even 100mg dianabol and I assure you that your estrogen will rise.

I pretty much was always using EQ with testosterone which is an AI for me , so technically I was using an AI. I actually plan on using Aromasin moving forward because I’m no longer using EQ. EQ actually tanks my estrogen into single digits to be exact.

While my point stands that having a proper androgen to estrogen ratio is more important than E2 levels, there’s literally no point in having high estrogen levels. So I do recommend using Aromasin for keeping estrogen in a healthy range.

Cv215 · Nov 8, 2023

I seem to have a sensitivity to AI's so i keep them very very low to nonexistant.
I can run test up to about 750 with no real side effects whatsoever and stay on it for a long period. Ive never seen my E2 go over 65 or 70.

AI's just seem to make me feel bad. I notice it almost immediately even o the smallest dose. I get this sort of down feeling. Almost like a mild depression. I get a bit if brain fog and some lethargy. Even when my E2 is relatively elevated, if i take an AI it just makes me feel unwell.
Ive tried various routines with adex and aromasin over the last decade.

I could run a lot of test with no side effects but i notice very quickly things lile dbol and trest will wreck me.

Nowadays i keep things very low. At most under any circumstances i may take .15 to .25 mgs of aromasin a week.

I wish it didnt make me feel crappy but it does. I know its not crushing my e2 that quickly so its no related to that. Its just something avout the drugs my body doesnt really like. I have a really bad problem with caber. Cant use that stuff at all. Messes my vision up and makes me feel all spaced out its pretty strange.

lynxeffect1 · Nov 8, 2023

gains4000 said:
No do not inject estrogen that is dumb. Go take 50mg even 100mg dianabol and I assure you that your estrogen will rise.

I pretty much was always using EQ with testosterone which is an AI for me , so technically I was using an AI. I actually plan on using Aromasin moving forward because I’m no longer using EQ. EQ actually tanks my estrogen into single digits to be exact.

While my point stands that having a proper androgen to estrogen ratio is more important than E2 levels, there’s literally no point in having high estrogen levels. So I do recommend using Aromasin for keeping estrogen in a healthy range.

It's not dumb if you need it , not fully stopped but by a huge margin than before. Taking dbol daily year round wud he worse I know plenty people now this has happened to after asking around. Even from trt patients, all were given valarate tabs to resolve the issue

Green Miles · Nov 8, 2023

With me, the "bloated dogshit" look has a lot to do with diet! High carb/sodium meals etc.

lynxeffect1 · Nov 8, 2023

pickapeck said:
Never heard of that. I have no idea how your aromatase would just stop working in all your tissues. Very strange. something to try maybe is hCG. Your testes will make a good amount of estrogen under stimulus of hCG.

I tried hcg it done fuck all for me. Trest worked but its hard to control the estrogen. I never heard of this either until it happened to me. I havent totally stopped but a lot to put me way out of ratio for example 2 years ago on 1000mg test a wk my estrogen was 125pgml 2hen I tested . Then 6 months later 80pgml then next test was 60 , then it was 30pgml and had all symptoms of low estrogen it was brutal. The owest I cud take was 300mg test a wk to be able to function before estradiol got too low , even came off and that was even worse. After talking to a few bodybuilders and powerlifters in the states and about 10 people using trt from a clinic that this also happened to I got my hands on estradiol valerate 2mg tablets and I think 4mg a day on 300mg test had me dialed in. I've since switched to injectable which are far more powerful mg per mg so going off the trial charts to estimate how much I might need be difficult to get exactly right yet because the more test I take the more estrogen i need but my problem is there's no private blood testing in my country, can only get it checked once every 3months or doctors raise a red flag on you

marssel · Nov 8, 2023

pickapeck said:
Never heard of that. I have no idea how your aromatase would just stop working in all your tissues. Very strange. something to try maybe is hCG. Your testes will make a good amount of estrogen under stimulus of hCG.

Maybe add clomid and HMG (if you can find) though if you’re taking mast or several guys on here have said primo kills their estrogen. I dunno I get scared at 500mg with no AI, gyno is forever or until surgery do we part.

Doitagain · Nov 8, 2023

marssel said:
Maybe add clomid and HMG (if you can find) though if you’re taking mast or several guys on here have said primo kills their estrogen. I dunno I get scared at 500mg with no AI, gyno is forever or until surgery do we part.

What is clomid supposed to do for his low E2 while he's on exogenous Test?
Let me spare you the time.
Nothing.