The Other Side of GLPs

[bbxtreme]

I am starting a casual thread and discussion on this topic because I think it’s one that’s coming. There are a lot of good threads on here regarding GLP’s and their usage. I have no desire to clutter those.

I can argue both sides of this and do daily as health is what I do. Like most things in life, there is a time and place for medication and interventions. The better question we should ask is “why” and “what?”

Why do we need the intervention and what will the cost of it be…

This can be applied to almost any medication, but for sake of this topic it will be around GLP’s and food.

I’ve discussed the potential long term side effects of GLP’s here, but can do so again if anyone needs a recap. I again, hold no judgment for anyone who uses them.

But what is coming next is my concern and the discussion here.

The “why” for most was “because the food industry makes addictive food.” So pharma saw an opportunity and solved a problem- obesity. Smart business move.

But let’s not forget what comes next- the food industry will have an answer and is already working on new ways to make food work around GLP’s as they are taking a financial hit- article below.

People are letting two of the largest industries control their food and their health. This hole will only get deeper if this cycle is continued.

So this topic is one of science and now potentially morals one could argue. I’m curious to know everyone’s thoughts and position on it, and why.

How does this pertain to bodybuilding- our life revolves around food, health and many are hailing GLP’s as the next best addition to this sport.

Disclaimer- I know many will want to ask what RFK will do. All I will simply say is “we hope he does what is right.” Leave it at that as we all know the rules here.

As always, enjoy and welcome a good discussion.

Ozempic Could Crush the Junk Food Industry. But It Is Fighting Back.

As revolutionary new weight-loss drugs turn consumers off ultraprocessed foods, the industry is on the hunt for new products.

www.nytimes.com

 

[buck]

I am not real knowledgeable on the topic but when i did a quick search recently i came up with 30% of people dropped out of the study from side effects. Something like 18% regained their weight in a year after stopping use of the drug. And that is just the real short term which costs money and did no real good it seems. I doubt the number of people that used the drug and will keep the weight off for 10 years or more is likely small. So i question if the cost is worth it to society in the long run as that money could be spent elsewhere. In the end changing lifestyle is the only real solution other then being drugged out for the rest of many people lives. And what is the cost of that.

 

[bbxtreme]

I am not real knowledgeable on the topic but when i did a quick search recently i came up with 30% of people dropped out of the study from side effects. Something like 18% regained their weight in a year after stopping use of the drug. And that is just the real short term which costs money and did no real good it seems. I doubt the number of people that used the drug and will keep the weight off for 10 years or more is likely small. So i question if the cost is worth it to society in the long run as that money could be spent elsewhere. In the end changing lifestyle is the only real solution other then being drugged out for the rest of many people lives. And what is the cost of that.

I’ll add to this that compliance has been an obstacle to date from my experience.

Many of the targeted customers/patients that these are designed for are not willing to do a shot- they’re too lazy, hate needles etc or use too much and quickly feel/regret it.

The recent weight loss drug list that was shared here on PM reflects that as they are coming out with pill versions to eliminate that obstacle.

 

[Massive G]

There is a dark side to all this for sure. I feel that those that titrate up the higher doses as prescribed are going to fuck something up in the long run. Tirzepatide and semaglutide both are listed for possible risks of medullary thyroid cancer which is the bad kind.
Negative effects for me have been hair loss and disruption in sleep and some constipation. I don't plan on staying on forever and am switching to Tirzepatide in March or April.

 

[qbkilla]

I am not real knowledgeable on the topic but when i did a quick search recently i came up with 30% of people dropped out of the study from side effects. Something like 18% regained their weight in a year after stopping use of the drug. And that is just the real short term which costs money and did no real good it seems. I doubt the number of people that used the drug and will keep the weight off for 10 years or more is likely small. So i question if the cost is worth it to society in the long run as that money could be spent elsewhere. In the end changing lifestyle is the only real solution other then being drugged out for the rest of many people lives. And what is the cost of that.

I agree with this. Bodybuilding and long term fitness adherence requires discipline. This is a substitute for discipline, not even to mention the sides we know about...and the long term effects we will start to see in the coming years.

 

[Sacario]

My stepdad was on the full dose for over a year and went partially blind. Turns out this is a side effect that's becoming more known. non-arteritic anterior ischemic optic neuropathy.

 

[WeakFNG]

But recently read on Medscape, some doctors were exploring the micro dosing concept of administration. The article was short and briefly mentioned the dangers of compounded formulas and how this practice has no clinical guidance at this time.

Regarding what @buck and @bbxtreme said, side effect related to dose seem to be a huge factor for most. My wife has used this concept along with some lifestyle changes with great success the past year never using more than 2.5 mg of tirzepatide a week (split into two shots). I've known several people stop very quickly at higher doses following the "clinical guidance" of the drug company.

I feel at the end of the day, the stuff is a tool like all the things we use. Ill never forget a guy at a very famous gym I was a member at told 19 year old me "Your diet is the hammer, your workouts are the chisel, drugs are sand paper." I feel he was right 25 years ago, I feel he's right today. That always stuck with me and I think applies to this class of meds as well.

Definitely following along to see where this thread goes.

 

[bbxtreme]

My stepdad was on the full dose for over a year and went partially blind. Turns out this is a side effect that's becoming more known. non-arteritic anterior ischemic optic neuropathy.

That’s extremely unfortunate and sorry to hear that. In my opinion nobody should be using or recommending the full dosage of GLP’s. We are past it being a “new” drug and everyone knows better from experience at this point in time.

 

[control]

I just finished a short run with Tirzepatide. I was using it to try and keep fat off and keep BG in check. I couldn't gain weight on it. I was able to eat just fine on it, but it must have really sped up my metabolism.

For someone that's significantly overweight, I think the pro's outweigh the cons. For bodybuilding, I don't think it makes sense to rev up metabolism like that, but we can just eat less food. Faster metabolism just means we have to buy and prep more food.

If it was selectively burning body fat, then that would be great; but I think it's probably just burning energy (energy =calories).

I dunno, I could be wrong though

 

[Stewie]

Being that GLP-1R (receptors) are G-protein-coupled receptor. I'd be overly concerned with developing tachyphylaxis over a longer period of time, which would require increased dosage. At what point is too much agonism?

 

[bbxtreme]

Being that GLP-1R (receptors) are G-protein-coupled receptor. I'd be overly concerned with developing tachyphylaxis over a longer period of time, which would require increased dosage. At what point is too much agonism?

I didn’t want to ask this in the Reta thread, but am curious as I watch what people “do” who I respect. You mentioned you aren’t and don’t plan on using GLP’s in that thread- would you be open to sharing why if it’s outside of what you stated above as I value your take.

 

[Stewie]

I didn’t want to ask this in the Reta thread, but am curious as I watch what people “do” who I respect. You mentioned you aren’t and don’t plan on using GLP’s in that thread- would you be open to sharing why if it’s outside of what you stated above as I value your take.

The short answer. I, personally feel that I'm a reasonably cognitively stable minded person. At 60 y/o. Any type of drug that directly and/or indirectly alters inhibitory and excitatory neurons. That's not my cup of tea in the long run. Again, I'm speaking for myself.

 

[npcout]

The short answer. I, personally feel that I'm a reasonably cognitively stable minded person. At 60 y/o. Any type of drug that directly and/or indirectly alters inhibitory and excitatory neurons. That's not my cup of tea in the long run. Again, I'm speaking for myself.

Couldn’t agree more

 

[Stewie]

Plus, I'm not trendy or pre-diabetic. If I lived a $hitty lifestyle and couldn't be disciplined enough to control how much food I'm shoveling down my throat. Yeah, maybe.

 

[slesh]

I’ll add to this that compliance has been an obstacle to date from my experience.

Many of the targeted customers/patients that these are designed for are not willing to do a shot- they’re too lazy, hate needles etc or use too much and quickly feel/regret it.

The recent weight loss drug list that was shared here on PM reflects that as they are coming out with pill versions to eliminate that obstacle.

Not to digress but the amount of people afraid of needles blows my minds. Reminds me of being 5 years and running out the doctor’s office when I was getting vaccinated for school. And now with basically being able to use Slin pins for everything I just don’t get it. I have so many boys I grew up who desperately need HRT and won’t do it. So dumb.

 

[aDw32]

My stepdad was on the full dose for over a year and went partially blind. Turns out this is a side effect that's becoming more known. non-arteritic anterior ischemic optic neuropathy.

It's horrible..

Basically trials included 7000 patients and lasted 2 years and rather proved it's safe. But no one knows what kind of tricks those big pharma's apply only to pass trials..

"Blinding (vision problems) was observed in some patients, particularly related to diabetic retinopathy complications. In the SUSTAIN 6 trial, which lasted 2 years and involved 3,297 patients, the following was reported:

Diabetic retinopathy complications occurred in 3.0% of Ozempic users compared to 1.8% in the placebo group.
This included worsening vision, bleeding in the eye (vitreous hemorrhage), or the need for interventions like laser treatment.

The increased risk was mainly seen in patients who had pre-existing diabetic eye disease. Researchers believe the rapid drop in blood sugar levels caused by Ozempic may temporarily worsen retinopathy in some cases"

 

[luki7788]

It's horrible..

Basically trials included 7000 patients and lasted 2 years and rather proved it's safe. But no one knows what kind of tricks those big pharma's apply only to pass trials..

"Blinding (vision problems) was observed in some patients, particularly related to diabetic retinopathy complications. In the SUSTAIN 6 trial, which lasted 2 years and involved 3,297 patients, the following was reported:

Diabetic retinopathy complications occurred in 3.0% of Ozempic users compared to 1.8% in the placebo group.
This included worsening vision, bleeding in the eye (vitreous hemorrhage), or the need for interventions like laser treatment.

The increased risk was mainly seen in patients who had pre-existing diabetic eye disease. Researchers believe the rapid drop in blood sugar levels caused by Ozempic may temporarily worsen retinopathy in some cases"

they said that c-19 vaccines are also safe

 

[aDw32]

they said that c-19 vaccines are also safe

Sure but there were not clinical trials on vaccines

Remember guys

90% of drags FAIL clinical trials

only 10% get to the market

Phase I (safety & dosage): ~37% failure rate
Phase II (efficacy & side effects): ~69% failure rate
Phase III (large-scale testing): ~42% failure rate
Regulatory approval (FDA/EMA, etc.): ~10-15% failure rate

To be clear, i don't have personal opinion. It's just open discussion

 

[luki7788]

glp is a specific group of drugs created for people without discipline and strong character (i.e. most of society) which is supposed to make people addicted to them and use them all the time, filling the pockets of pharmaceutical companies

 

[Liter O' Test]

Researchers believe the rapid drop in blood sugar levels caused by Ozempic may temporarily worsen retinopathy in some cases"

Perhaps this is why they created retatrutide with a glucagon receptor agonist.

the part that concerns me the most is how the metabolism is after discontinuation, long term.

Below Lyle McDonalds GLPs opinion on misunderstandings 41:44 ,
an interesting part (actually its all interesting) is his anecdote on glp1 receptor assays

On the topic of food though, i expect food portions to be even smaller and more expensive, nothing new with shrinkflation.
Maybe since they will want to add protein to everything, we will have to be more aware of the quality/type/source.