THE PILL--T3/T4

[getbig27]

has anyone tried the t3/t4 pill for fat burning and what did you think?
at what daily dose was it used effectively?

 

[getbig27]

anybody?

 

[cryptasm]

you mean a t4/t3 pill (combined ) or do u mean t3 or t4???
If you mean t4/t3 combination you can getthat in "Armour Thyroid" its made from pig thyriod so it has all thyroid hormones.. but has mostly t4.. with out getting into alot of psycobable...Most people have enuff t4..t4 converts to the more potent t3 (as for raising metabolisum and is also a tempature regulator) so taking t3 alone IMO would be better..
If you are talking about T3 then diffent story...it burns fat but also burns muscle..thats why you should take it with a anticatabolic IE AAS, clenbuterol. It doesnt differntiate between fat and muscle so by raising your metabolisum with it if you arnt carefull you could kill gains and lose muscle..
on the otherhand if you know how to use it it can help alot with fat loss

 

[getbig27]

thanks for the info. t4/t3 combo pill sounds like a waste.

 

[cryptasm]

IMO it would be.But a t2/T3 combo I think would be a good one...

 

[Fitness2829]

What is T2? never seen that avaliable?

 

[cryptasm]

hard to find... there is acompany that carries it but i don't remember who it is..its also questionable wether it is good or not..suppposedly at the right dose its better than T3 cause it isn't as catabolic..but burns fat well..but from the info i've seen from people that used it the ones who didnt like it were using less then the reccomended amount...sorry I couldn't provide more info...do some searching on it you may come across it,..

 

[Fitness2829]

defiantely have to look for it. If its as good as T3 but catabolic you would think a lot of people would be using it. Thanks for the info bro. If anyone else has any info on T2 post it!!

 

[Maverick]

T2? Me and my buddies used to call the old brovel testosterona 200 T2 back in the day. thats the only T2 I am aware of.



Mav

 

[Rex Feral]

ES carries "T5." T2/T3 combo (Liquid-T5) 30ml bottle 75mcg/25mcg/ml for
$20. Good bro and a good product.

Rex.

 

[Snarf]

There is not much clinical data on T2 in humans. You will find plenty of alternative medecine and holistic medicine advocates who think you need T1, T2, T3 and T4 becuase that is more "natural".

However, no good studies have been done to determine exactly what T2 contributes to thyroid function and metabolism.

There is some animal model evidence that it is much less potent than T3, but does contribute to thyromimetic activity.

There is no eveidence that it is a better or more selective "fat burner" than T3.

Either way, your body converts the various thyronine isomers from 1,2,3 and 4 as a normal part of thyroid homeostatic function.

I believe that T3 is still the most potent NON-SELECTIVE metabolic accelerator. As has been stated, if you use it without gear it will literally chew up your muscle mass. Even with gear, it will still metabolize muscle.

Also, T3 usage does run the risk of screwing up the delicate thyroid feedback system and could result in transient or persistant hypothyroidism. It is also associated with cardiac tissue damage with prolonged use.

Hope this helps.

 

[cryptasm]

. It is also associated with cardiac tissue damage with prolonged use.

Hope this helps.

prolonged use or abuse??? 30-40mcgs per day or is it abuse 100+mcgs pd that is associated with cardiac damage??

 

[Snarf]

prolonged use or abuse??? 30-40mcgs per day or is it abuse 100+mcgs pd that is associated with cardiac damage??

Basically, prolonged use of exogenous T3 results in thyrotoxicosis or an approximation of Grave's Disease. The affects are likely dose and duration dependent. Beyond that, I won't even try to guess at how much is too much and how long is too long. If anybody gives you a number, it is a guess.

Here are the manifestations of Grave's Disease (this is when your thyroid pumps out too much T3 basically)

Table 10-6. Cardiac Manifestation of Graves' Disease

• Tachycardia
• LVH and strain on EKG
• Premature atrial and ventricular contractions
• Atrial fibrillation
• Congestive heart failure
• Angina with (or without) coronary artery disease
• Myocardial infarction
• Systemic embolization
• Death from cardiovascular collapse
• Resistance to some drug effects (digoxin, coumadin)
• Residual cardiomegaly

In the absence of congenital heart defects or coronary heart disease, I think the main one for bodybuilders to be concerned with is Congestive Heart Failure and Residual Cardiomegaly. These are closey related.

When you are on gear, you are stimulating muscle growth (hopefully). Your heart is a big muscle and it will grow in response to the load being placed on it.

But, when you are on gear, it may grow too much. Adding T3 causes stronger heart contractions and tachycardia (faster heart rate), which is a recipe for cardiomegaly (enlarged heart). The problem is that there comes a point where your heart becomes less effiecient as it gets larger. As it becomes less efficient but you still place demands on it, it tries to compensate for these demands by growing larger even more. This is a vicious cycle that ends up in congestive heart failure.

Also, as the heart becomes increasingly dysmorphic (mishapen), it is less precise in conducting the elctrical current accross its mass to produce a "correct" contraction. This is when you see these athletes drop dead on the court or field. Their heart misses a beat, gets confused and basically stops beating (this is bad). My friend's son just died before Christmas at 21 years old from this. He had no symptoms but lifted pretty heavy and was not on gear at about 235lbs. He was watching TV late one night and his heart just stopped. They found him sitting on the couch, dead, the next morning. He had a congenital problem that resulted in his cardiomegaly and if caught earlier he would of been on a heart transplant list.

Anyway, as with anything else we do on this board, it is your call. It is hard for me to imagine why you would use T3 unless it was for contest prep. And, then only for short periods of time and only if you have had an EKG, a stress test and no family history of heart disease. But that is just me.

Play safe.

 

[Fitness2829]

wow you guys kinda got me freaked out about using T3 now. I usually go up to a 100mcg a day and cycle it for 12 weeks. Didnt think T3 was that dangerous and heard that it permant. shutting down the thyroid claims were over exaggerated. I heard that there is no proof that has ever happened...?

 

[Fitness2829]

btw i always thought clen was more dangerous than T3.... i have heard of some serious heart damage with clen.... but ECA stack is suppos. same... weird uh?

 

[Snarf]

wow you guys kinda got me freaked out about using T3 now. I usually go up to a 100mcg a day and cycle it for 12 weeks. Didnt think T3 was that dangerous and heard that it permant. shutting down the thyroid claims were over exaggerated. I heard that there is no proof that has ever happened...?

I didn't mean to freak you out. The occurance of all of these problems is relatively low and it is dose and duration dependent. It all comes down to your comfort level like anything else we take. Keep in mind that the standard of care for hypothyroidism is T4 alone. The T3/T4 combinations (Armour Thyroid) have fallen out of favor mainly due to the long term affects associated with T3. However, these patients are on thyroid replacement hormones for the rest of their lives, so their duration of exposure is quite long.

100mcg for 12 weeks seems a bit high to me. I would think you are losing a lot of muscle or limiting your gains significantly.

I also think you are right in that Clen is likely worse, although not by much. It has been shown to cause direct cardiac tissue damage but can also cause cardiomegaly, leading to congestive heart failure.

 

[Fitness2829]

Yeah i hear ya about the clen for sure!! Also the 100mcg for 12 weeks is cycled as .... 25 for one week, 50 for one week, 75, etc.. then run 100 for 3 weeks and start tapering slowly. It has worked well for me and of course i never run it without 750mg of test, maybe d-bol or turnibol and anavar... but i still loose some muscle also. Thanks for the input, excellent post!!!