Think about this one

[PHIL HERNON]

Take a set of identical twins. Identical eating habits. One always trains to failure, the other stops 1 rep short of failure. What would you expect the difference in physiques to be regarding muscle mass? In bodyfat level?

 

[G.E.R.M]

..

the one that stop 1 rep short will be stronger, bigger and possibly more cut

 

[Massive G]

the one that stop 1 rep short will be stronger, bigger and possibly more cut

I agree.
Most people systematically overtrain and under eat.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Let me be more specific

I agree.
Most people systematically overtrain and under eat.

They are not underfed, get enough protein, and do not overtrain. Everything else outside of the gym is ideal conditions.

 

[bigbaldbulldog]

heads up...

I feel the body follows where the mind goes..so if you sell yourself short mentally you will sell your body short physically...failure training like you train = growth..I learned that after 20 years of doing it wrong...

 

[G.E.R.M]

..

was this food for though or do you have an answer phil ?

 

[MassMachine]

Its funny i posted this in one of my posts on here awhile back.
I am in the 4th week with 2 identical twins 19 yrs old. Both untrained.

One is using a High intensity (3 days a week) method the other high volume approach (6 days a week).

Both eating the same diet and supplements. Drug free and sleeping the same amount.


HIT trainee start 176 12.3% bodyfat/ 4 weeks 181 12.5%

HV start 175 12%/4 weeks 179 11.5%

MM

 

[PHIL HERNON]

GERM

was this food for though or do you have an answer phil ?

Not necessarily, but I have a good idea. Another question you can apply to your answer is does using heavier weight play more of a factor in muscle growth than repetitous movement?

 

[moj0]

With your caveat of all else being equal and no overtraining, the one that trains to failure should have a greater adaptive effect and therefore should build more lean body mass. More LBM should lead to higher metabolic requirements that could in theory lead to a leaner physique. This is again assuming that they both get adequate rest and recovery to keep cortisol levels in check.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Another question

Here is another scenario. If 1 twin can push a weight 6 times but stop at 4 or 5, what will the difference be in physiques as having the other twin pick a weight that they could do 15 times and stop at 12-14 reps.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Yes

With your caveat of all else being equal and no overtraining, the one that trains to failure should have a greater adaptive effect and therefore should build more lean body mass. More LBM should lead to higher metabolic requirements that could in theory lead to a leaner physique. This is again assuming that they both get adequate rest and recovery to keep cortisol levels in check.

Thats how I feel.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

One more

Difference in physiques between 1 twin who can do 6 reps but stops at 4 or 5, or other twin who trains to failure with 12-15 reps.

 

[johnnyboy]

the twin who trains with the heavest weight will be in the better shape, going to failure is much more important that counting reps.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

?

the twin who trains with the heavest weight will be in the better shape, going to failure is much more important that counting reps.

Your answer confuses me. The one who stops at 4-5 is using heavier weight. The other trains to failure and ends at 12-15 reps.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

BBB

I feel the body follows where the mind goes..so if you sell yourself short mentally you will sell your body short physically...failure training like you train = growth..I learned that after 20 years of doing it wrong...

Hey BBB, I think you should apply for the Los Angeles Lakers head coaching position! I didnt understand a word you said, haahhaahhahahahah.

 

[johnnyboy]

Your answer confuses me. The one who stops at 4-5 is using heavier weight. The other trains to failure and ends at 12-15 reps.

Sorry, I reread the question after I posted, I say the heavier weight would trump going to failure. But damn that is a tricky question because my understanding is that more stress on the muscle the better, but going to failure would put more stress than just stopping short, but if the other guy is using more weight. Man, I bow out, I think I have just confused myself.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Hahhahha

Sorry, I reread the question after I posted, I say the heavier weight would trump going to failure. But damn that is a tricky question because my understanding is that more stress on the muscle the better, but going to failure would put more stress than just stopping short, but if the other guy is using more weight. Man, I bow out, I think I have just confused myself.

Hey, we are all in the same boat. We need to figure this stuff out before we proceed with any legit training routine though, dont you think?

 

[TooPowerful4u]

What does the split look like? I think there can be two answers here depending on the split...

If you train each bodypart twice per week, you can not train to absolute failure and expect to recover in time for the next workout and continue making gains, you will overtrain. If its once per week, then training to failure would be the way to go, knowing you have adequate time to recover from the high level of damage you have done.

Now if its twice per week with NOT going to failure (depending on the level of failure, are u talking 2max sets to failure or a whole failure workout?) you will be able to recover much faster while still stimulating growth, but you will have 2 growth phases per week instead of one, so i think that would amount to more gains.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Why?

What does the split look like? I think there can be two answers here depending on the split...

If you train each bodypart twice per week, you can not train to absolute failure and expect to recover in time for the next workout and continue making gains, you will overtrain. If its once per week, then training to failure would be the way to go, knowing you have adequate time to recover from the high level of damage you have done.

Now if its twice per week with NOT going to failure (depending on the level of failure, are u talking 2max sets to failure or a whole failure workout?) you will be able to recover much faster while still stimulating growth, but you will have 2 growth phases per week instead of one, so i think that would amount to more gains.

Why confine this once or twice per week? Why choose a week as the absolute? Dont restrict your creativity, pretend you can use an 8 or 9 day cycle, whatever it takes for you to understand that these twins are not overtrained or underfed.

 

[johnnyboy]

How much of a diffrence in weight is there? Is the guy lifting significantly more weight than the guy doing more reps and going to failure? If it is a major diffrence, say over 25lbs, then I go with the heavier weight.