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venting, is anyonelse like this?

Ruhlfreak55

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Plenty of people are. If I was stuck with the physique I had now forever I'd be very happy and have no problem with it.

There's a difference between being happy and satisfied - don't confuse them. I'm very happy with my physique, but never satisfied - I always want to improve it.
That's splitting hairs, they're essentially synonymous in my opinion.
 

MasteroniPepperoni

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How long do you guys usually cycle through a program? I tend to until I get burned out and stall. I’ve been considering doing a modified hernon 5-6x a week push(quads, chest, tri, ant/front delt, calves) / pull (hams, lats, biceps, abs and rear delts)

Since frequency will be high, it will definitely be 1-2 sets to fail
 

MasteroniPepperoni

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That's splitting hairs, they're essentially synonymous in my opinion.
As long as you’re still making progress and pushing intensity, don’t see an issue. Enjoyment and consistency are important m

Still, I’d add some more frequency
 

beastmode121

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The thing is; you don’t have to go to failure to grow. Leaving 1-2 RIR is enough to push growth and stimulate protein synthesis
 

marssel

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I started training around 2002, back then there were some routines or systems (GVT, 5x5, HST) but it seemed like most people just did a bro split and sets were taken to failure. Now over the years there are more routines, more "optimal" ones, were hearing more about high volume, RIR, RPE, it seems like if you use a bro split and train to failure your looked at as a neanderthal.

I like to optimize things like everyonelse but also realize it frustrates me. I posted that thread about nipped sale training, but settled on creating a PPL (pretty basic) similar to Creeping Death and PHAt. Basically PPLPPL, one push day is progression go shit heavy to failure, then the next day is more about a "pump". I included muscle rounds for some exercises from fortitude, was excited.

Day 3 im doing my push pump day not going to failure, being careful not to, using a stopwatch to take 1 minute between sets on the pump day, but still train hard I lost it, slammed the dumbbells down walked out I didn't want to train that way.

Is there anyonelse who (one or both)

1. You don't like to train if its not to failure? Your just wired to train to failure and cant get into pump sets, RIR, RPE?

2. You just like to do a bro-split and just smash one body part to failure then head home? M-Chest,T-Back,W-Legs, Th-delts, F-arms.

Sorry just venting. I try to learn new things, optimize, keep it simple but consider the science, but I only want to train to failure and I feel like Each day I need to focus on one part and crush it. Im sure we have others that still train like this or am I the only one?
Training to failure and beyond gives me the best pumps anyway and I’m having fun. I’m not gonna win the Olympia but still the dudes running around the gym with nite books and apps, 10-20 years younger than me can’t touch my size or strength (although I don’t train as heavy by choice these days) failure is where it’s at. I pyramid sometimes, GVT some days but have for 20 years. All the programs out there imo are for guys who can’t just go in and train hard. They use YT and SM to convince people they need to buy into programs and their adjacent supplement lines. If you can’t self motivate to go balls out then you’re in the wrong game as far as competing goes. If you’re in it to chase ass I guess do what you do. I did run FST 7 a few years back on some sets and i liked it but I’d never do a whole 2 hours of that shit just smaller body parts with tight fascia.
 

cage99

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Always enjoyed the bro split with modifications week to week…. Just concentrate on squeezing the muscle throughout the rep and focus on the negative. Nice an slow controlled reps. Don’t go to failure anymore.

Cage
 

qbkilla

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The thing is; you don’t have to go to failure to grow. Leaving 1-2 RIR is enough to push growth and stimulate protein synthesis
This is known. But how can we actually predict if we have 1 or 2 reps and do this consistently for every set? If I want to progress I'm going to be biased and want to push a rep past last week. I can't predict if I have 2 more reps left, especially on isolation exercises where it's starting to burn. I only know failure when I hit it, maybe some can predict it but I can't
 

qbkilla

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Always enjoyed the bro split with modifications week to week…. Just concentrate on squeezing the muscle throughout the rep and focus on the negative. Nice an slow controlled reps. Don’t go to failure anymore.

Cage
How did you modify it? I'd think to get a little more arms..for those who want to bring them up

Mon - chest 9 sets, 3 sets Tris
Tur back 9 sets, 3 sets bi
W legs 6 quads, 6 hams
Th off
Fri arms 6 bi 6 tri
Sat delts, 6 sets front, side, rear (each)
Sun- off

I'd assume this is a standard modified bro split with moderate volume (not risking too low but not risking ovetrain)

This is how I was taught many years ago
 

beastmode121

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This is known. But how can we actually predict if we have 1 or 2 reps and do this consistently for every set? If I want to progress I'm going to be biased and want to push a rep past last week. I can't predict if I have 2 more reps left, especially on isolation exercises where it's starting to burn. I only know failure when I hit it, maybe some can predict it but I can't
You can. I mean the last rep when you know if you lower the weight; it might not come up or it will be hard to come up; that’s 1-2 RIR
 

Ruhlfreak55

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You can. I mean the last rep when you know if you lower the weight; it might not come up or it will be hard to come up; that’s 1-2 RIR
I think a lot of people in this thread don't understand the real definition of failure. I'd wager not many of you are training to abject failure on any sort of regular basis.
Failure is 100% no fucking way you can do another single rep....as such I freely admit I don't train like that very often and sure as hell not more often than once a workout on a final set of an exercise.

.....I even tried not to sound assaholic there but it didn't work *shrug*
 

xpoc

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I have enjoyed a variety of different programming models. But anytime there is a stopwatch involved that dictates my rest period between sets, I hate it. The one exception is rest pause sets because those are essentially ONE set with a couple breaks built in. In that setting I am ok with it. But mentally, I cannot handle timing my rest periods on straight sets. I feel like I am more focused on the clock than I am on my training. I feel like I am in gym class doing circuits with the PE coach blaring a whistle every 30 seconds.
 

beastmode121

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I think a lot of people in this thread don't understand the real definition of failure. I'd wager not many of you are training to abject failure on any sort of regular basis.
Failure is 100% no fucking way you can do another single rep....as such I freely admit I don't train like that very often and sure as hell not more often than once a workout on a final set of an exercise.

.....I even tried not to sound assaholic there but it didn't work *shrug*
I think most ppl know what failure is but refuse to go to that side cause it’s painful
 

Dave Perez

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Why not just give every training routine a 6 week trial and determine which works best for you...
 

Bleed

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As simple as this, this a perfect description.

You can. I mean the last rep when you know if you lower the weight; it might not come up or it will be hard to come up; that’s 1-2 RIR
 

qbkilla

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I think a lot of people in this thread don't understand the real definition of failure. I'd wager not many of you are training to abject failure on any sort of regular basis.
Failure is 100% no fucking way you can do another single rep....as such I freely admit I don't train like that very often and sure as hell not more often than once a workout on a final set of an exercise.

.....I even tried not to sound assaholic there but it didn't work *shrug*
I think it's easier to hit failure or know you have on some exercises then others.

Easy would be hammer chest press, barbell curls In the 8-10 range.

But say hack squats in the 15-20 rep range...I think it's harder to predict failure when the lactic acid is building up and it's an issue of pain vs just moving it.

Even imagine dumbbell curls 8-10 vs 15-20. One you just can't move it, the other you start to feel the burn, fatigue, so it's very subjective.
 

adam2433

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Just to failure on the last set? See' ive always taken every set to failure, it just feels natural. When I cant move the bar, that set is done. I would find it impossible to track my progress if I did any other way (tried to train just a smudge short of failure etc). I also like to use higher rep ranges but always took them to failure.

For example Say its arms day

Close grip (3x8-12)
Barbell Curl (3x8-12)
DB Skullcrusher (3x12-15)
Incline DB Curl (3x12-15)
Cable Pressdown (2x15-20)
Preacher Curl (2x15-20)

Everything to failure, pretty simple arm workout no thinking. if my first set is above the rep rage, I use more weight next time.
Just to failure on the last set? See' ive always taken every set to failure, it just feels natural. When I cant move the bar, that set is done. I would find it impossible to track my progress if I did any other way (tried to train just a smudge short of failure etc). I also like to use higher rep ranges but always took them to failure.

For example Say its arms day

Close grip (3x8-12)
Barbell Curl (3x8-12)
DB Skullcrusher (3x12-15)
Incline DB Curl (3x12-15)
Cable Pressdown (2x15-20)
Preacher Curl (2x15-20)

Everything to failure, pretty simple arm workout no thinking. if my first set is above the rep rage, I use more weight next time.

But if I were to make any of the sets, or exercises not to failure, I have no way to track progress. It just drives me crazy thinking about it, I've been training like this so long. Its impossible for me to gauge how close I am to failure (1 rep, 2) I just know when it doesn't move anymore, that to me is failure and no thought is needed.
I think people like Dante, JM, Scott S, JP, etc are all smarter than guys like you and me. Does the above work? Sure. Are there more optimal was such ad the systems they created? I definitely think so.

Yes failure is pretty easy to identify barring one can train hard enough to really push. But I think you are over complicating things in a few ways…

1- RPE/RIR. I think it’s more important when preparing for a powerlifting meeting. But for our purpose when a JM program lists it I think it is more loose… a hard set (2-3RIR), a very hard set (1-2 RIR), failure and beyond (forced/partial/rest pause/etc). You have been training long enough to identify each type of set even if the exact RIR might be off by 1-2 at times.

2- it seems you are program hopping or program adhd and trying to find the “best” and by combining many into one. If you loved DC and failure training go for it! If you love more volume and variety go with Creeping Death! But when people take PPL to failure like JP, add Pump Days from JM and muscle rounds from Scott I think the bastardize result leads to burn out mentally and less than optimal results physically.

But hey you’ve been in the game a long time. You know what you like and what works. Go with it. That which we enjoy is the easiest to be consistent with and we all know consistency over time is the key is this sport.
 

qbkilla

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I think people like Dante, JM, Scott S, JP, etc are all smarter than guys like you and me. Does the above work? Sure. Are there more optimal was such ad the systems they created? I definitely think so.

Yes failure is pretty easy to identify barring one can train hard enough to really push. But I think you are over complicating things in a few ways…

1- RPE/RIR. I think it’s more important when preparing for a powerlifting meeting. But for our purpose when a JM program lists it I think it is more loose… a hard set (2-3RIR), a very hard set (1-2 RIR), failure and beyond (forced/partial/rest pause/etc). You have been training long enough to identify each type of set even if the exact RIR might be off by 1-2 at times.

2- it seems you are program hopping or program adhd and trying to find the “best” and by combining many into one. If you loved DC and failure training go for it! If you love more volume and variety go with Creeping Death! But when people take PPL to failure like JP, add Pump Days from JM and muscle rounds from Scott I think the bastardize result leads to burn out mentally and less than optimal results physically.

But hey you’ve been in the game a long time. You know what you like and what works. Go with it. That which we enjoy is the easiest to be consistent with and we all know consistency over time is the key is this sport.
100 percent spot on.

Usually I rotate between "I know I'm an idiot I'm going to follow a gurus program as Witten because they know more than me" and then I see some study on ig and go "wait a minute, I'd benefit from more frequently or volume let's re-evaluate things" that's what drives me crazy.

I'm my own worst enemy. I keep AAS and diet simple but it's the training I try and perfect, maybe because I feel that's the important variable?
 

marssel

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Cerberus777

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I train to failure, its the easiestand most enjoyable way to gadge if im progressing. I personally don't like chasing the pump. So even higher reps are done to failure. Rest pause and muscle rounds are great. I think any style of training works but you have to enjoy it and be consistent.
 

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