Was about to receive anesthesia for wisdom teeth removal when they noticed a weird EK

[ghbrah]

EKG,

i had inverted t waves or something, now i need to go to the cardiologist first to make sure it's nothing before going back.

i'm on tren atm, and in the past when i've had anesthesia everything must've been normal

anything to worry about you think?

 

[Medic08]

EKG,

i had inverted t waves or something, now i need to go to the cardiologist first to make sure it's nothing before going back.

i'm on tren atm, and in the past when i've had anesthesia everything must've been normal

anything to worry about you think?

What lead was the inverted T waves in? Can you show me a copy of the EKG? I can guarantee that Tren has absolutely nothing to do with inverted T waves. I have a hard time believing that a dentist knows how to read an EKG. Inverted T waves can be normal in certain leads such as AVR or it can be a sign of ischemia, but ischemia is typically ST depression, not inverted T waves. Two completely different things..... Or they could have put the leads on so ass backwards that it will give you inverted T waves.

Post up the EKG if you have a copy. I'd like to see it.

 

[heavydeadlifts]

What lead was the inverted T waves in? Can you show me a copy of the EKG? I can guarantee that Tren has absolutely nothing to do with inverted T waves. I have a hard time believing that a dentist knows how to read an EKG. Inverted T waves can be normal in certain leads such as AVR or it can be a sign of ischemia, but ischemia is typically ST depression, not inverted T waves. Two completely different things..... Or they could have put the leads on so ass backwards that it will give you inverted T waves.



Post up the EKG if you have a copy. I'd like to see it.

I agree, they probably were only using three leads to monitor him as well which can make your rhythm look like anything depending on how leads were placed

 

[ghbrah]

What lead was the inverted T waves in? Can you show me a copy of the EKG? I can guarantee that Tren has absolutely nothing to do with inverted T waves. I have a hard time believing that a dentist knows how to read an EKG. Inverted T waves can be normal in certain leads such as AVR or it can be a sign of ischemia, but ischemia is typically ST depression, not inverted T waves. Two completely different things..... Or they could have put the leads on so ass backwards that it will give you inverted T waves.

Post up the EKG if you have a copy. I'd like to see it.

thanks

one sec, ill take a pic right now

 

[ghbrah]

my bad the picture ended up sideways and isn't clear
should i take another one
turn head to right to view

 

[Medic08]

Yeah try to take a more clear picture. I can see the rhythm, but I can't see what lead this is. On the left side it should say something like I, II, AVL, AVR. Yes, you do have some inverted T waves, but no ST depression. If this is lead AVR then that's normal for that lead bc its basically looking at the heart from the back of the heart to the front so everything will be flip flopped.

Also, even if this is only occurring in one lead then that means nothing. Reason being is bc you need two consecutive leads to be doing the same thing to diagnose something. For example leads I, AVL, V5, V6 are looking at the side of the heart. Leads II, III, and AVF are looking at the heart from the bottom to the top. Leads V1-V4 are looking at the front of the heart.

So if you have this rhythm in two or more consecutive leads like I explained above then something could be wrong, but if its only showing in one single lead then you can't diagnose anything bc one single lead alone can not tell you anything.

I'm willing to bet that this lead is AVR which like I said would be normal. If you can, try to get the lead number/letter.

 

[Medic08]

Also, how old are you GHbrah? If you're still young T wave inversion is completely normal. Especially in the pre cordial leads such as V1-V4. I wouldn't worry about inverted T waves, especially if you're still a teenager or in your early 20's.

Just understand that there's a big difference between ST depression and inverted T waves. ST depression means that ischemia(lack of blood flow is evident) and you can see the difference on an EKG. The entire ST segment will dip down and be wide. T wave inversion just looks like a normal ST segment, except the T wave is upside down instead of upright. It's nothing to be alarmed about, especially if its only in one lead.

That just shows that your dentist has no real experience or knowledge with reading EKG's. Judging by the size of your QRS (the tall line), you have a nice strong beating heart. That's the part where your ventricle depolarizes (fires) and the T wave is your ventricles repolarizing (filling back up) and then the P wave is your Atria depolarizing (firing).

Like I said before, you can't judge anything based on one single lead so your dentist better have looked at more than one lead before canceling your surgery. Otherwise, your cardiologist is going to call him am idiot.

 

[ghbrah]

Yeah try to take a more clear picture. I can see the rhythm, but I can't see what lead this is. On the left side it should say something like I, II, AVL, AVR. Yes, you do have some inverted T waves, but no ST depression. If this is lead AVR then that's normal for that lead bc its basically looking at the heart from the back of the heart to the front so everything will be flip flopped.

Also, even if this is only occurring in one lead then that means nothing. Reason being is bc you need two consecutive leads to be doing the same thing to diagnose something. For example leads I, AVL, V5, V6 are looking at the side of the heart. Leads II, III, and AVF are looking at the heart from the bottom to the top. Leads V1-V4 are looking at the front of the heart.

So if you have this rhythm in two or more consecutive leads like I explained above then something could be wrong, but if its only showing in one single lead then you can't diagnose anything bc one single lead alone can not tell you anything.

I'm willing to bet that this lead is AVR which like I said would be normal. If you can, try to get the lead number/letter.

thansk for the help

yeah, i'm only 19( almost 20), left side of graph says II a the top

so they had this monitor up and noticed it was weird, so they took everything off and got another one and did it again, and it was still inverted

not sure if they tested the different sides or whatever that is, but they tested it twice, i think he only printed out the second time they did it to show to me the inverted waves

 

[ghbrah]

thansk for the help

yeah, i'm only 19( almost 20), left side of graph says II a the top

so they had this monitor up and noticed it was weird, so they took everything off and got another one and did it again, and it was still inverted

not sure if they tested the different sides or whatever that is, but they tested it twice

also, i had taken a valium like 1.5 hrs before this and my heartrate was still around 90 while i was in the chair

bp was like 150/80, but they said it should come down and that the lower number was what was important, but i assumed the valium would've lowered it more than that by that point
i do take sudafed daily, which can raise bp, and i guess the tren can raise that too, although i haven't noticed anything abnormal yet on tren in terms of bp or heartrate (im only 3 weeks into tren e) other than a slightly higher heartrate of around 90 (im around 80 normally)

 

[Medic08]

thansk for the help

yeah, i'm only 19( almost 20), left side of graph says II a the top

so they had this monitor up and noticed it was weird, so they took everything off and got another one and did it again, and it was still inverted

not sure if they tested the different sides or whatever that is, but they tested it twice, i think he only printed out the second time they did it to show to me the inverted waves

also, i had taken a valium like 1.5 hrs before this and my heartrate was still around 90 while i was in the chair

bp was like 150/80, but they said it should come down and that the lower number was what was important, but i assumed the valium would've lowered it more than that by that point
i do take sudafed daily, which can raise bp, and i guess the tren can raise that too, although i haven't noticed anything abnormal yet on tren in terms of bp or heartrate (im only 3 weeks into tren e) other than a slightly higher heartrate of around 90 (im around 80 normally)

You are fine and your dentist is way over acting and has no clue about cardiology. Sure, your heart rate should have dropped after the Valium, but you're about to get surgery so of course you're nervous. Same thing goes for your BP. I'm willing to bet that your heart rate and BP was higher before you got the Valium and once you got it, it dropped it to the reading they got.

A heart rate of 90 is still within normal limits so I'm not sure wtf they're so concerned about. 60-100 BPM is normal so again, I have no idea what they're concerned about.

They seem pretty unsure of themselves to me. Stopping the surgery bc of a flipped T wave in ONE lead which is a normal finding in most people, and bc your heart rate was on the higher side of normal? Wow.... Yeah, Valium should bring you down, but the shit isn't magic. It's not going to cute everyone's pre surgery anxiety.

I can't believe they're referring you to a cardiologist bc of a flipped T wave. That is seriously comical and I'm sure your cardiologist will say the same thing.

 

[ghbrah]

You are fine and your dentist is way over acting and has no clue about cardiology. Sure, your heart rate should have dropped after the Valium, but you're about to get surgery so of course you're nervous. Same thing goes for your BP. I'm willing to bet that your heart rate and BP was higher before you got the Valium and once you got it, it dropped it to the reading they got.

A heart rate of 90 is still within normal limits so I'm not sure wtf they're so concerned about. 60-100 BPM is normal so again, I have no idea what they're concerned about.

They seem pretty unsure of themselves to me. Stopping the surgery bc of a flipped T wave in ONE lead which is a normal finding in most people, and bc your heart rate was on the higher side of normal? Wow.... Yeah, Valium should bring you down, but the shit isn't magic. It's not going to cute everyone's pre surgery anxiety.

I can't believe they're referring you to a cardiologist bc of a flipped T wave. That is seriously comical and I'm sure your cardiologist will say the same thing.

thanks brah
nah, they weren't worried about the bp or heartrate, i was actually cuz i just noticed it was kind of high even though i felt super relaxed. they said that was fine.

about the t waves though, they said 99% chance it's nothing to worry about, but that they just can't give e the anesthesia with that reading until they get a confirmation from a cardiologist after a stress test or something

but they could have tested two of them right
cuz they switched the monitors to check it again
so something could actually be wrong

 

[ALLEX]

Should be one of these:

**broken link removed**

**broken link removed**

 

[ghbrah]

You are fine and your dentist is way over acting and has no clue about cardiology. Sure, your heart rate should have dropped after the Valium, but you're about to get surgery so of course you're nervous. Same thing goes for your BP. I'm willing to bet that your heart rate and BP was higher before you got the Valium and once you got it, it dropped it to the reading they got.

A heart rate of 90 is still within normal limits so I'm not sure wtf they're so concerned about. 60-100 BPM is normal so again, I have no idea what they're concerned about.

They seem pretty unsure of themselves to me. Stopping the surgery bc of a flipped T wave in ONE lead which is a normal finding in most people, and bc your heart rate was on the higher side of normal? Wow.... Yeah, Valium should bring you down, but the shit isn't magic. It's not going to cute everyone's pre surgery anxiety.

I can't believe they're referring you to a cardiologist bc of a flipped T wave. That is seriously comical and I'm sure your cardiologist will say the same thing.

thanks brah
nah, they weren't worried about the bp or heartrate, i was actually cuz i just noticed it was kind of high even though i felt super relaxed. they said that was fine.

about the t waves though, they said 99% chance it's nothing to worry about, but that they just can't give e the anesthesia with that reading until they get a confirmation from a cardiologist after a stress test or something

but they could have tested two of them right
cuz they switched the monitors to check it again
so something could actually be wrong

also i saw someone post this on another forum

"I did a low dose of Tren because it actually scares me. I have more sitting around just needing to be filtered and I wont buy the filters because once I do I know I'll use the shit. It has some nasty physiological side effects that you may not even notice anything that messes with the heart and lungs like tren is not really worth it to me. Shortness of breath and changes on EKGs has been a pretty common effect. Inverted t-waves, borderline ST segment elevation, new onset pvc's, pac's ect. I have a feeling as the years go by more and more bro's will be afflicted with CHF or other cardio respiratory problems from heavy tren use."


you think it could be due to the tren? and if so, it's nothing to worry about? or would it be
when i see the cardiologist i shouldn't mention the tren right, cuz can't that affect insurance

 

[Medic08]

thanks brah
nah, they weren't worried about the bp or heartrate, i was actually cuz i just noticed it was kind of high even though i felt super relaxed. they said that was fine.

about the t waves though, they said 99% chance it's nothing to worry about, but that they just can't give e the anesthesia with that reading until they get a confirmation from a cardiologist after a stress test or something

but they could have tested two of them right
cuz they switched the monitors to check it again
so something could actually be wrong

also i saw someone post this on another forum

"I did a low dose of Tren because it actually scares me. I have more sitting around just needing to be filtered and I wont buy the filters because once I do I know I'll use the shit. It has some nasty physiological side effects that you may not even notice anything that messes with the heart and lungs like tren is not really worth it to me. Shortness of breath and changes on EKGs has been a pretty common effect. Inverted t-waves, borderline ST segment elevation, new onset pvc's, pac's ect. I have a feeling as the years go by more and more bro's will be afflicted with CHF or other cardio respiratory problems from heavy tren use."


you think it could be due to the tren? and if so, it's nothing to worry about? or would it be
when i see the cardiologist i shouldn't mention the tren right, cuz can't that affect insurance

I don't see how Tren could cause direct EKG changes. Shortness of breath is and has always been a side effect of Tren use. It's been know to degrade endurance ever since people started using it. PVC's and PAC's are caused by irritable foci in the heart typically caused by stress, dehydration, stimulants, etc.... ST elevation is indicative of an MI (myocardial infarction) or heart attack. Aside from MI's, broad spectrum ST elevation can be pericarditis.

I think people are just looking for things to blame Tren on. I could spend all day giving lectures about MI's, pericarditis, endocarditis, ischemia, etc, but that's not what everyone wants to hear.

Ok, one thing is for certain. Tren causes anxiety. Anxiety leads to an elevated heart rate. If the heart rate becomes too elevated them of course it will lead to ischemia bc the heart is starving for oxygen, which is why it is beating so fast. If the heart starts to beat too fast the yes, you will see a different morphology in the P-QRS-T complex bc the heart is trying to compensate for the stress that you're putting on the heart.... BUT once the heart rate returns back to normal, the morphology will return to normal bc homeostasis is back to normal.

Make sense?

Sorry man, I love cardiology and I could seriously spend ALL day discussing it bc its just a love of mine. It's difficult to explain to people that have no idea about the heart, but ill do my best to knock it down to your level. I don't mean any disrespect by saying "your level", but hopefully you get what I'm saying.

Bottom line is I bet you're okay and have nothing to worry about. Feel free to keep asking questions or PM me if you'd like.

 

[Medic08]

Should be one of these:

**broken link removed**

**broken link removed**

Trying to understand what you meant by this post?

 

[ghbrah]

I don't see how Tren could cause direct EKG changes. Shortness of breath is and has always been a side effect of Tren use. It's been know to degrade endurance ever since people started using it. PVC's and PAC's are caused by irritable foci in the heart typically caused by stress, dehydration, stimulants, etc.... ST elevation is indicative of an MI (myocardial infarction) or heart attack. Aside from MI's, broad spectrum ST elevation can be pericarditis.

I think people are just looking for things to blame Tren on. I could spend all day giving lectures about MI's, pericarditis, endocarditis, ischemia, etc, but that's not what everyone wants to hear.

Ok, one thing is for certain. Tren causes anxiety. Anxiety leads to an elevated heart rate. If the heart rate becomes too elevated them of course it will lead to ischemia bc the heart is starving for oxygen, which is why it is beating so fast. If the heart starts to beat too fast the yes, you will see a different morphology in the P-QRS-T complex bc the heart is trying to compensate for the stress that you're putting on the heart.... BUT once the heart rate returns back to normal, the morphology will return to normal bc homeostasis is back to normal.

Make sense?

Sorry man, I love cardiology and I could seriously spend ALL day discussing it bc its just a love of mine. It's difficult to explain to people that have no idea about the heart, but ill do my best to knock it down to your level. I don't mean any disrespect by saying "your level", but hopefully you get what I'm saying.

Bottom line is I bet you're okay and have nothing to worry about. Feel free to keep asking questions or PM me if you'd like.

alright thanks for the info brah
granted, i don't know what all those terms mean, but still haha
so the reason they can't do anesthesia with an off ekg reading is what?
and if tren could cause this ekg abnormality, what would the cardiologist say regarding whether it's ok to receive anesthesia

is it the ekg itself that can be dangerous when receiving anesthesia, or the conditions that the ekg could be indicative of (ventricular hypertrophy, heart disease or whatever)

i don't even know what ekg means tbh, but yeah

 

[Medic08]

alright thanks for the info brah
granted, i don't know what all those terms mean, but still haha
so the reason they can't do anesthesia with an off ekg reading is what?
and if tren could cause this ekg abnormality, what would the cardiologist say regarding whether it's ok to receive anesthesia

is it the ekg itself that can be dangerous when receiving anesthesia, or the conditions that the ekg could be indicative of (ventricular hypertrophy, heart disease or whatever)

i don't even know what ekg means tbh, but yeah

An EKG is a picture of the hearts electrical system and can tell you a lot about what is going on with the heart. I can't think of one reason why they didn't due the surgery on you just bc of inverted T waves. Now if they would have seen ST depression or ST elevation then yes, that is a concern. You can't just look at one lead and diagnose heart problems. You would have to do a 12 lead which shows all angles of the heart to actually get an idea of what may be going on with the heart. Like I said before, one EKG strip in one lead isn't going to tell you anything and anyone that says differently is full of shit. A 12 lead EKG can tell you SO much. It can tell you heart attacks, cardiomyopathy, cardiohypertrophy, heart blocks, heart disease, cardiac arrhythmias, etc....

EKG or ECG means electrocardiogram btw.

Honestly, I don't know why they didn't do your surgery, TBH. There's nothing abnormal about it (especially at your age), and for sure nothing that screams that surgery can't or shouldn't be done. I think they mistook inverted t waves with ST depression which is two completely different things and like I said earlier, for it to be a legitament concern, the EKG would have to show abnormalities in two consecutive leads. So in this case of Lead II, there would have to be the same changes in leads III and AVF for it to even be considered to be a problem. One lead means absolutely nothing.

 

[Medic08]

For example, find a picture of a EKG of 12 lead where a patient is having a heart attack and ill tell you exactly where the heart attack is and which vessel is effected.

 

[ghbrah]

so I went in to a cardiologist

and I just had the same exact thing done pretty much as at the oral surgeon's office

they attached those things to me, perhaps they tested all leads this time?

they noticed the inverted t waves, and now i'm scheduled for an echocardiogram to make sure there's no "thickening of the heart" or something, according to the cardiologist, who didn't really say much other than that

 

[Ashop]

so I went in to a cardiologist

and I just had the same exact thing done pretty much as at the oral surgeon's office

they attached those things to me, perhaps they tested all leads this time?

they noticed the inverted t waves, and now i'm scheduled for an echocardiogram to make sure there's no "thickening of the heart" or something, according to the cardiologist, who didn't really say much other than that

Wish you well,,,keep us updated please.