Waxy Maize

[terryd5150]

Very well said....

I absolutely dont get your posts on this board at all..."the world according to Marshall, if he doesnt do it, then noone should"

Excellent post.


I think it's important to remember how many people have immulated Arnold's and Mentzer's ways and never ended up with that type of physique.

Also, a very good point you made is that because someone may get lucky and gain a ton of quality mass off of a low-dose protocol doesn't mean that everyone else will.

I think the overlying message that should be gained from this post is how truely unique and individualized this sport is, and that ANY mass-marketed or applied theory/technique will not work for everyone.

It all comes down to doing your research, consulting with ACTUAL experts about custom-tailored excersize/diet/supplementation programs, and mostly knowing your own body.

 

[marshall]

I absolutely dont get your posts on this board at all, they make no sense. As for this thread being named waxy maize, let me state this up front. I COULD CARE IF ANYONE BUYS WAXY MAIZE...IF YOU DONT WANT TO BUY IT OR USE IT DONT AND DONT LET ANYONE CONVINCE YOU THAT YOU NEED IT BESIDES MAYBE YOUR OWN STUDYING ON THE SUBJECT. IF YOUR HURTING FOR MONEY THERE ARE ALOT MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO BUY LIKE PROTEIN OR CREATINE.....There with that out of the way let me get back to ....I dont get any of your posts at all. They all come out with the hidden undermeaning of "I Marshall have been lifting for a long time and I have absolutely nothing to show for it, noone even notices or asks if I lift and Im pissed off at the world for it"

You cite the top genetically gifted bodybuilders in the world pre 80 as the reason everyone should go back to their methods of eating, well do you still watch a black and white TV, and drive a 72 Ford Pinto too? Do you know how many people tried to train/eat like Arnold and Mentzer and never ended up looking like Arnold or Mentzer? Have you seen anyone with the chest and biceps of Arnold since? I havent seen anyone with his exact build which was incredible scary genetics for biceps and chest and some pretty glaring weaknesses elsewhere.
Outside of Sergio who could most likely have the greatest genetics this sport has ever seen, like it or not the bodybuilders in the modern era blow away old time bodybuilders in the amount of muscle mass they hold on thier physiques. And thats what this sport is about "bodybuilding"....granted there are alot of things being done nowadays that is also ruining physiques (insulin use etc)....But lets bottom line it shall we? Could Arnold or Mentzer stand next to Dillett, Ronnie, Haney, Heath, Levrone and Wheeler and not get embarrassed? Its like the 46 year old quarterback sitting on his couch yearning about the glory days of his high school football past with your posts.

You state on another post on this board that if certain elite guys can use such low dosages why should they use at all then? Huh? You lost the point! They can make incredible gains of muscle mass off of low dosages from being hyperesponders/genetically elite/whatever.....Thats a gift! The point is they CAN use low dosages.

You state in the above post how its foolish to listen to people in this sport that have been there and done that or who have accomplished goals or actually made themselves into some sort of bodybuilder in this sport. Whats the alternative? Listen to someone who has accomplished nothing, yet feels its his duty to tell everyone within earshot of him how its done? Id rather take in all information from all parties and make deductive reasoning for myself.
I dont care if one person on this board buys anything from my company....in fact I urge everyone not to just for the point of not looking hypocritical (hows that?).....but Ill be the last one to sit there and long for the glory days of downing whole eggs, drinking shakes of ice cream, peanut butter and whole milk to "bulk up" or contest prep being "16 cans of tuna a day with salads"...For some reason all your posts on this board are "the world according to Marshall, if he doesnt do it, then noone should"

Hey, I'm the first one to admit that I do live in the past a little too much.

The fact that I think a PWO drink is a waste of money is from personal experience, you know the kind of experimentation that guarantees you know something works or not. Like it's been joked that people will say some guys take so much shit, they really don't know why they look like they do, or what works or not.

I personally never started to weighlift to accomplish anything other than build muscle. I accomplished that. In your eyes I'm pissed off and on here looking for attention because I've accomplished nothing. I don't know, maybe you have me pegged, I'm not much of a profiler.

Wasn't it you that often said perhaps it's not most wise to ask the person who looks the best how they got that way, because it may have been so easy for them, they have no idea. They train lazy, eat nothing and look like a million bucks. You always stated that you need to look to the person who has come the furthest (like yourself who started at 150 pounds or something along those lines).

If I look to your words of wisdom then I do have alot to offer and try to offer what I can and ask some questions that make people have to really look at themselves, deep down and answer them. Unfortunately alot of people don't like to do this. They want the high five and pat on the back and everything is cool.

I wasn't questioning wazy maize or PWO nutrition or the fact that I take in 75-100g of protein per day as a reflection on anyone's business, yours included. I've patronized your business on several occasions and I'm sure I will do so in the future.

All things aside, I think you're a good business man and run a good company. I may not agree with some things that have been laid out here by yourself or some of the other guys on this board, but it doesn't mean I don't have respect for what they do or say, I just question it and if I agree to disagree, I have no problem with that. If others want to learn from me or agree with me and share their experiences, that's cool too, though alot of guys are afraid to post against the popular ideals.

As far as bodybuilding, take a look at what you are saying. Let's put this in perspective, the guys you mentioned are bigger, yes, a tad leaner, yes, but are they better? Would Mike Mentzer hold a candle to todays bodybuilders if he was 30yoa right now? ABSOLUTELY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me ask you this? Would Reggie Jackson be an MVP candidate right now if you warped him from 1977 to 2007? Absolutely. Would Steve Carlton be a Cy Young candidate? Would George Gervin score? Would Bill Russell rebound? Would Earl Campbell bust through linebackers?

You get my point. You take the best and put them in any generation and they will be the best. As much as you may hate to admit it, Mike Mentzer would be a top level professional bodybuilder today as he was in 1977, no difference.

The physiques were better back then. You are trying to get me to believe that the biggest bodybuilder is Mr Olympia. Absolutely not. The bodybuilder with the perfect physique is Mr Olympia.

Are you going to try and sell me that Jay Cutler with a head the size of a medicine ball or him and/or Coleman with their 40 inch waists are the Mr Olympia, the perfect ideal human physique?

I'M NOT BUYING IT. They can't even compare to a late 70's Mentzer. Lose every time. Bodybuilders have just lost perspective from my point of view. I think the next couple of generations will bring it back to where it needs to be. I'm confident of that. People are sick of these bloated/distended monsters who look like apes more than Mr Olympia.

What's wrong with peanut butter, eggs and ice cream? I usually have a huge malted milk shake everynight before bed, normally after about a dozen chocolate chip cookies (maintain my conditioning exactly where I want).

Even though you don't think so, I think you (in fact anyone) could go back to 1980 and have the exact same physique you have now. I KNOW THIS !!

 

[marshall]

The world according to Marshall would be Utopia. I don't know why there is so much resistance.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

I want to suck on Vanders beanbag

We know Marshall.. we know....

somebody ban this guy i dont think there is one single person on this board that likes him or agrees with him. He hands out information based on what he thinks, which is outdated, simply wrong, and could mislead tons of people. Run a search on his posts... 99% of them are posts that are argueing or disagreeing with somebody and fighting with a well respected member. I think that warrants a ban or at least a strong warning.... MODS?

 

[Koevoet]

The fact that I think a PWO drink is a waste of money is from personal experience, you know the kind of experimentation that guarantees you know something works or not.

What's wrong with peanut butter, eggs and ice cream? I usually have a huge malted milk shake everynight before bed, normally after about a dozen chocolate chip cookies (maintain my conditioning exactly where I want).

If I ate like you I would be a fat toad. We are all different.

I use a PWO drink consistently, and I can see the benefit. We are all different.

You assume that because you have not personally seen the benefit of a PWO drink, there may not be a benefit. Maybe, we are all different.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

If I ate like you I would be a fat toad. We are all different.

I use a PWO drink consistently, and I can see the benefit. We are all different.

You assume that because you have not personally seen the benefit of a PWO drink, there may not be a benefit. Maybe, we are all different.

Maybe he has never utalized it correctly... seeing as 1000s of people have used it with great results EXCEPT him

 

[kidstuff]

What's wrong with peanut butter, eggs and ice cream? I usually have a huge malted milk shake everynight before bed, normally after about a dozen chocolate chip cookies (maintain my conditioning exactly where I want).

what 35% BF?

i'll guess that there is a 98.5% chance that you are a fraud and look nothing like a bodybuilder.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Wasn't it you that often said perhaps it's not most wise to ask the person who looks the best how they got that way, because it may have been so easy for them, they have no idea. They train lazy, eat nothing and look like a million bucks. You always stated that you need to look to the person who has come the furthest (like yourself who started at 150 pounds or something along those lines).

If I look to your words of wisdom then I do have alot to offer and try to offer what I can and ask some questions that make people have to really look at themselves, deep down and answer them. Unfortunately alot of people don't like to do this. They want the high five and pat on the back and everything is cool.

I absolutely agree with that and I believe the absolute last guy you should take advice from in this sport is anyone that the sport came easily too....that I agree with you. Because when I see someone such as JC who is competing nationally and winning 2 years after he starts training I dont think that relates to the masses. He probably could of done the same thing 50 different ways because the genetic cards are in his deck. I probably made a mistake using Dillett in my previous post as that guy looked like a freak with one, two meals a day and the worst half ass training on the planet. I truly believe that alot of the elite people in this sport have no idea how hard it is for the normal bodybuilder around them to gain muscle mass....yet dole out advice of what worked for them (when in all honesty they probably could of gotten there 50 ways around the block)

What I took offence to is what I saw in your post that noone should listen to anyone that is pretty advanced in this sport. Maybe that person went thru trial and error. Maybe that person did not have the easy road and fought and clawed his way to the top and now has something to share regarding the mistakes he doesnt want others to make. Some of the best people to listen to in this sport are 175 pounds and not much to look at in a bodybuilding sense but that doesnt mean someone like Justin Harris who is highly advanced shouldnt be listened to because of his development....(I know Justins background and he has been lifting for over a decade and painstakingly got to where he is now with hard work, studying everything he could get his hands on and perserverance. That to me isnt the easy road)

 

[BigWilly]

I like the stuff and will continue to use it.

BW

 

[km2000]

We know Marshall.. we know....

somebody ban this guy i dont think there is one single person on this board that likes him or agrees with him. He hands out information based on what he thinks, which is outdated, simply wrong, and could mislead tons of people. Run a search on his posts... 99% of them are posts that are argueing or disagreeing with somebody and fighting with a well respected member. I think that warrants a ban or at least a strong warning.... MODS?

lets ban everyone that has something to say we dont like! what the hell is this nazi germany?

tp4u do you not hand out info based on what you think? I recall a post where you say you know for a fact arnold ate handfulls of dbol a day? I personally think that is one of you r dumber posts!


you are funny, just because he argues with "well respected members" he should be banned? comon man thats just stupid talk... they are both making very good points, if dc didnt want to reply he dosent have to.. ever think of that?

If you look at some of the best threads on this board, a good deal of them are an arguement or debate! if you dont belive me just look em up...

if you dont like marshalls posts, heres an idea.... dont reply to them!

 

[TooPowerful4u]

lets ban everyone that has something to say we dont like! what the hell is this nazi germany?

tp4u do you not hand out info based on what you think? I recall a post where you say you know for a fact arnold ate handfulls of dbol a day? I personally think that is one of you r dumber posts!


you are funny, just because he argues with "well respected members" he should be banned? comon man thats just stupid talk... they are both making very good points, if dc didnt want to reply he dosent have to.. ever think of that?

If you look at some of the best threads on this board, a good deal of them are an arguement or debate! if you dont belive me just look em up...

if you dont like marshalls posts, heres an idea.... dont reply to them!

#1 he has no credibility as hes posted no pictures or offered anything that proves he isnt some fat kid sitting behind a computer. And he does NOT make "very good points". If you think that then i question your knowledge and intillect.

#2 You have no credibility (except your physique which is decent, but could be due to genetics and not knowledge and hard training, so we dunno for sure) as Phil has crushed you a few times and numerous members have caught u putting out misinformation. Sometimes your right, but you have been wrong alot also (yes you were caught going back and editing your posts after you got caugth too)...

#3 You seem to like to argue alot yourself... BUT i will say your arguements can be sometimes logical.. where his are just stupid and make no sense and go TOTALLY against the grain when we know hes wrong (even science has shown it), but for some reason he keeps trying to argue his points


I have no problem with debates. I do have a problem with argueing for the sake of argueing, especially when his side of the arguement is just rediculous. Now go lay down before i go sick PHIL on u

 

[rAJJIN]

Km makes a good point. Were not going to Ban or warn someone Just because they disagree. Marshall Knows Him an I disagree on things But
that doesnt mean he cant give his opinion. Ive never seen him threaten or
get to shitty with anyone.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

Km makes a good point. Were not going to Ban or warn someone Just because they disagree. Marshall Knows Him an I disagree on things But
that doesnt mean he cant give his opinion. Ive never seen him threaten or
get to shitty with anyone.

So if science and experience of 1000s of different people prove me wrong, i can still argue over and over til im blue in the face on this board that i am right? I thought we advocate learning and informative discussion as well as healthy debate here? I dont consider something a healthy debate if it is proven to be incorrect. This guy is stating its healthy and good for our fitness goals to eat cookies and a malted milkshake before bed and that ANY calories are good for growth? Since science is not enough in my arguement, why dont i start a poll and see who agrees with his bullshit? Il guarantee you 99% of the members here vote against anything he says, so why should incorret information being posted be allowed?

Like i said Rajin.... you know me and you are cool and im not here to argue with you or challange authority... i respect you in every way... but as i said... do a search on his posts and its ALL arguements. He argues to argue, not to prove a point. That is NOT permissable on this board i thought?

 

[SVFootball]

Are you going to try and sell me that Jay Cutler with a head the size of a medicine ball or him and/or Coleman with their 40 inch waists are the Mr Olympia, the perfect ideal human physique?

I'M NOT BUYING IT. They can't even compare to a late 70's Mentzer. Lose every time. Bodybuilders have just lost perspective from my point of view. I think the next couple of generations will bring it back to where it needs to be. I'm confident of that. People are sick of these bloated/distended monsters who look like apes more than Mr Olympia.

As a new member of the BB world, I cant DISAGREE with you more. Those men have built their bodies to levels never seen before. Honestly, a 40-inch waist on them doesn't make me think 'O, the older BBers had thinner waists.' BB is about muscle. No, they aren't bloated either. Why bash the best?

What do you have against these guys?

 

[rAJJIN]

I guess I havnt seen or read every post of His Tp4u.
If I see stuff I dont agree with or feel its not going to do me anygood to read Ill usualy Not even bother reading it. As a Mod maybe just skimm thru it
and make sure its Not WAY out of line, If it is it gets deleted.
Ive not seen any his threads deleted (yet)
I can tell you that 'normaly when there is a problem member It will get brought up and we as a team will get together and talk it over.
Ive not seen Marshalls name brought up before.

We can argue here man! It would be very boring I think if we all agreed and had the same opinions. Its when the Debating or arguing gets out of controll
and threats (cough cough ) are made that gets threads deleted and Guys get removed or put on the Vacation List.
Not sure what else to say bro..I Just Havnt seen anything myself that would justify banning the fella.

 

[km2000]

#1 he has no credibility as hes posted no pictures or offered anything that proves he isnt some fat kid sitting behind a computer. And he does NOT make "very good points". If you think that then i question your knowledge and intillect.

#2 You have no credibility (except your physique which is decent, but could be due to genetics and not knowledge and hard training, so we dunno for sure) as Phil has crushed you a few times and numerous members have caught u putting out misinformation. Sometimes your right, but you have been wrong alot also (yes you were caught going back and editing your posts after you got caugth too)...

#3 You seem to like to argue alot yourself... BUT i will say your arguements can be sometimes logical.. where his are just stupid and make no sense and go TOTALLY against the grain when we know hes wrong (even science has shown it), but for some reason he keeps trying to argue his points


I have no problem with debates. I do have a problem with argueing for the sake of argueing, especially when his side of the arguement is just rediculous. Now go lay down before i go sick PHIL on u

1. if you think a picture brings you credibility you have some issues,(or you have been listen to phil to much) we all sit behind a screen, if you choose to post a pic you are more than welcome, if you choose not to than so be it.... go to your gym and find the biggest most impressive physique and ask him some questions regarding aas, diet and training, chances are you are more intelignt than he is.. does this make sense? all the gurus and vets on this board dont have a 260lb ripped physique but we still listen to them because they are knowlegable.

2 I am not looking for credibilty here, I have a life thats not on the internet! If you are so worried about your internet credibility you should go outside and get some sunshine!..... I DONT CARE WHAT YOU THINK OF MY PHYSIQUE ! , If you notice I dont have any pics posted, its for a reason! I really dont care what you think! I have not given out any misinformation, I dont know where you get that from? phil has a personal agenda against me (and I'm sure there is no way he will be able to refrain himself from entering this thread!) I dont know where he has "crushed me"? the edited post you speek of I have gone over in the thread and clarified.

now if you want to get into spewing misinformation and such I will refer you to your drunk posting forum, and the great personal experiences and advice newbies might pick up from "driving drunk" and "bangin bitches" I would seriously think about editing that post as you are so concerned about marshal and his malted shakes and cookies diet the new members might pick up! maybe you should be banned for giving you personal advice?

I said it befor, dont read this thread if your gonna get your panties in a bunch!

marshal has stated many times, that this is his opinion! he is not sayin it is science or anything set in stone. I dont personaly agree with him but I will respect his right to his opinion! I hate to argue as much as you, but I hate hypocrites even more.

 

[marshall]

We know Marshall.. we know....

somebody ban this guy i dont think there is one single person on this board that likes him or agrees with him. He hands out information based on what he thinks, which is outdated, simply wrong, and could mislead tons of people. Run a search on his posts... 99% of them are posts that are argueing or disagreeing with somebody and fighting with a well respected member. I think that warrants a ban or at least a strong warning.... MODS?

This is a real gem TP.

You go in and modify a post of mine, quote it to make me look gay and stupid and then ask for me to be banned.

Smooth work lol

Really, why do you read or respond to my posts? I try to respond to your posts and answer them how I would answer them if I was sitting next to you.

I don't remember putting anyone down on this board or being offensive to them or saying anything that I most surely wouldn't discuss with them face to face.

I have been put down, called names and requested to be banned. You will not find one post where I called names back or was an asshole to the person who posted those things. You will also not have 1 Mod on here tell you of a time that I complained to them about anyone or anything.

Explain to me the benefit you would get with me getting banned? Explain to me the feeling of accomplishment you would feel for getting me banned? I'm really curious how this would make you feel better.

 

[gooey]

all i can say is.....

F'n AMEN!!!!!!! Thats is laying the smacketh down on someone's candy ass!!!!!
goo

I absolutely dont get your posts on this board at all, they make no sense. As for this thread being named waxy maize, let me state this up front. I COULD CARE IF ANYONE BUYS WAXY MAIZE...IF YOU DONT WANT TO BUY IT OR USE IT DONT AND DONT LET ANYONE CONVINCE YOU THAT YOU NEED IT BESIDES MAYBE YOUR OWN STUDYING ON THE SUBJECT. IF YOUR HURTING FOR MONEY THERE ARE ALOT MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO BUY LIKE PROTEIN OR CREATINE.....There with that out of the way let me get back to ....I dont get any of your posts at all. They all come out with the hidden undermeaning of "I Marshall have been lifting for a long time and I have absolutely nothing to show for it, noone even notices or asks if I lift and Im pissed off at the world for it"

You cite the top genetically gifted bodybuilders in the world pre 80 as the reason everyone should go back to their methods of eating, well do you still watch a black and white TV, and drive a 72 Ford Pinto too? Do you know how many people tried to train/eat like Arnold and Mentzer and never ended up looking like Arnold or Mentzer? Have you seen anyone with the chest and biceps of Arnold since? I havent seen anyone with his exact build which was incredible scary genetics for biceps and chest and some pretty glaring weaknesses elsewhere.
Outside of Sergio who could most likely have the greatest genetics this sport has ever seen, like it or not the bodybuilders in the modern era blow away old time bodybuilders in the amount of muscle mass they hold on thier physiques. And thats what this sport is about "bodybuilding"....granted there are alot of things being done nowadays that is also ruining physiques (insulin use etc)....But lets bottom line it shall we? Could Arnold or Mentzer stand next to Dillett, Ronnie, Haney, Heath, Levrone and Wheeler and not get embarrassed? Its like the 46 year old quarterback sitting on his couch yearning about the glory days of his high school football past with your posts.

You state on another post on this board that if certain elite guys can use such low dosages why should they use at all then? Huh? You lost the point! They can make incredible gains of muscle mass off of low dosages from being hyperesponders/genetically elite/whatever.....Thats a gift! The point is they CAN use low dosages.

You state in the above post how its foolish to listen to people in this sport that have been there and done that or who have accomplished goals or actually made themselves into some sort of bodybuilder in this sport. Whats the alternative? Listen to someone who has accomplished nothing, yet feels its his duty to tell everyone within earshot of him how its done and what to do? Id rather take in all information from all sides/parties and make a deductive reasoning for myself.
I dont care if one person on this board buys anything from my company....in fact I urge everyone not to just for the point of not looking hypocritical (hows that?).....but Ill be the last one to sit there and long for the glory days of downing whole eggs, drinking shakes of ice cream, peanut butter and whole milk to "bulk up" or contest prep being "16 cans of tuna a day with salads"...For some reason all your posts on this board are "the world according to Marshall, if he doesnt do it, then noone should"

 

[gooey]

nah....

KM is right, marshall shouldn't be banned, we all have differing opinions and we should respect them. But marshall should know when he makes very aggressive comments about mentzer and how he would compete with todays level of BBers he should know that their will be quick, and decisive counter arguments. DC is a well respected well renowned(sp) individual who has so much rich information and credibility in the world of BBing it would be hard to debate with someone like that. I think what Marshall's trying to say least IMO lets not ferget the basics, that is what the foundation is. But in our world of performance enhancements we are always trying to find new ways via supplements, gear, training regiments, nutrition to try and manipulate the human body or its environment to perform at a higher level consistant with the activity. Works for some but not all
gooey

This is a real gem TP.

You go in and modify a post of mine, quote it to make me look gay and stupid and then ask for me to be banned.

Smooth work lol

Really, why do you read or respond to my posts? I try to respond to your posts and answer them how I would answer them if I was sitting next to you.

I don't remember putting anyone down on this board or being offensive to them or saying anything that I most surely wouldn't discuss with them face to face.

I have been put down, called names and requested to be banned. You will not find one post where I called names back or was an asshole to the person who posted those things. You will also not have 1 Mod on here tell you of a time that I complained to them about anyone or anything.

Explain to me the benefit you would get with me getting banned? Explain to me the feeling of accomplishment you would feel for getting me banned? I'm really curious how this would make you feel better.

 

[marshall]

I absolutely agree with that and I believe the absolute last guy you should take advice from in this sport is anyone that the sport came easily too....that I agree with you. Because when I see someone such as JC who is competing nationally and winning 2 years after he starts training I dont think that relates to the masses. He probably could of done the same thing 50 different ways because the genetic cards are in his deck. I probably made a mistake using Dillett in my previous post as that guy looked like a freak with one, two meals a day and the worst half ass training on the planet. I truly believe that alot of the elite people in this sport have no idea how hard it is for the normal bodybuilder around them to gain muscle mass....yet dole out advice of what worked for them (when in all honesty they probably could of gotten there 50 ways around the block)

What I took offence to is what I saw in your post that noone should listen to anyone that is pretty advanced in this sport. Maybe that person went thru trial and error. Maybe that person did not have the easy road and fought and clawed his way to the top and now has something to share regarding the mistakes he doesnt want others to make. Some of the best people to listen to in this sport are 175 pounds and not much to look at in a bodybuilding sense but that doesnt mean someone like Justin Harris who is highly advanced shouldnt be listened to because of his development....(I know Justins background and he has been lifting for over a decade and painstakingly got to where he is now with hard work, studying everything he could get his hands on and perserverance. That to me isnt the easy road)

See there is something we both agree on, and that advice is even more sage when applied to other facets of life.

If I said in a post that no one should listen to anyone advanced in this sport, I don't remember writing it and I skimmed through and couldn't find it.

What I am saying, is that there are other ways, that I feel are superior and more efficient and for lack of a better term "more fun" to get things done and guys are obsessing over the things that make no difference in my opinion.

I can take someone, cut their protein down to 75-100g, eliminate the PWO shake, pre-workout shake and let them eat whatever they want without counting calories and maintain their conditioning or tighten it or gain weight as they need.

That's all I'm saying