Why all of the sudden is insulin the "secret" again.

[the_warrior]

thanks dr. phil

i did not persist, i said im sorry and ask for before and after insulin pics, whats wrong with that? the first part of my post sure i was being a smart ass prick, sue me, isn't the first time and certainly won't be the last, but when someone claims to put on loads of lean mass then you best bet your ass i wanna see it. its human nature to want to see the unbelievable. :lightbulb:

Requesting proof is fine; you simply didn't go about it the right way. Just as you didn't respond to me appropriately: deriding me as a "Dr. Phil", really? And back to my original point, if you were sorry--actually sorry--you would have simply deleted the "smartass" portion of your post and inquired if he had some before and after shots to demonstrate his claim. From this, its clear that you don't really think that there was anything wrong with your acting like a "smartass" or a "prick", and if that's the kind of person you are, then so be it. But if not, then forgo the apology by acting decently to begin with.

 

[the_warrior]

And as for slin, when appropriately situated within a protocol, can be quite effective. Here are pics of me from january and from last week. Weight is ~200lbs dry in either case.

 

[Gunsmith]

I wonder how many of the guys that get fat from using insulin, also raised their calories (from carbs) at the same time.

Dose your insulin to your carb intake, not the other way around.

DING DING DING !!!

from the people I've seen have great results with it they worked the compound into the diet and training rather the the other way around.

I plan to have it on hand if I don't get the lean mass gain I'm looking for.

 

[b-boy]

And as for slin, when appropriately situated within a protocol, can be quite effective. Here are pics of me from january and from last week. Weight is ~200lbs dry in either case.

the second pic is with slin??? and both pics is 200lbs??

 

[the_warrior]

the second pic is with slin??? and both pics is 200lbs??

Sorry, I uploaded htem in the wrong order. The first pic is with slin and both are at about 200lbs morning weight

 

[b-boy]

Me? Last year, all things being the same, I gained 4lbs of lean mass and dropped a 1/2% of fat in a 6 month period. All perspective, but that is loads of lean mass for me.

I dont compete or take too many naked picts of my body. I have pictures of me in the members photos section. Knock yourself out.

You can call me out, thats fine, I appreciate it.

However, if you saying that IM WRONG than you need to take "smart" out of smartass when describing yourself.

ok thank you for explaining, see that wasn't hard. amazing how vets on this board can get points across and everything be fine, why cause we have that understanding, but why a dr. phil 100 and how many ever post thinks he has to be the fucking referee between two long time vets i will never understand. (yea you mr. warrior)..LOL

ness i appreciate your response and i have no problem admitting that i can be an "ass" sometimes. my wife says the same thing..LOL

 

[Gunsmith]

ness i appreciate your response and i have no problem admitting that i can be an "ass" sometimes. my wife says the same thing..LOL

Myt wife say how much of a prick i am all the time , my response is always , "find somthing your good at and be the best at it"

you get more respect from inteligent people being open and honest , weather it be brutal or not

 

[the_warrior]

ok thank you for explaining, see that wasn't hard. amazing how vets on this board can get points across and everything be fine, why cause we have that understanding, but why a dr. phil 100 and how many ever post thinks he has to be the fucking referee between two long time vets i will never understand. (yea you mr. warrior)..LOL

ness i appreciate your response and i have no problem admitting that i can be an "ass" sometimes. my wife says the same thing..LOL

B-boy, I tried to be polite about the issue, so let me try it your way. What I said was not out of concern for Ness' well-being; he clearly doesn't need me, a guy he doesn't even know, for a defender, rather I said it because you were being an asshole and need to grow the fuck up.

 

[Gunsmith]

B-boy, I tried to be polite about the issue, so let me try it your way. What I said was not out of concern for Ness' well-being; he clearly doesn't need me, a guy he doesn't even know, for a defender, rather I said it because you were being an asshole and need to grow the fuck up.

You obvously have nver tried to break up a fight between two brothers or best friends
all that ends up happening is you get punched by both

For the most part we are all adults here and have some if not alot of experiance with anabolics and things of this nature.

people dissagree ,it happens , and generaly it brings out alot of good loint from each party making for a learning experiance for everybody.

Let them duke it out and learn from both their experiance

 

[tkav1980]

Massive G

to what degree can you manipulate your own natural insulin levels thru diet and supplementation, without actually using expgeneous insulin? and secondly do you feel thats there is even a need for that?

 

[Iabadman]

I am going to make this fairly quick because I have stuff to do .......But is this trend in bbing where guys in bbing want to set standards as to what's ok and not in bbing?.........Gh is good ......insulin is bad .......1000gram a week is fine , but over 2000mg and you are abusive ........synthol is cheating ......but site injecting isn't ..........I just don't get it [ and I have been guilty of it in the past as well] ......I am sorry, I don't see bbing as a sport what so ever . I have been a high level athlete at times in my life . And I think it is funny when bbers see themeselves as athletes. Bbing is not athletic .......it is an expression of one's self . So that makes it an art form in my estimation ,and that's how it should viewed .

All art is subjective . To each his own. Artist have different morals, boundries , and styles . And this correlates with bbing . Some guys like the natural look , some guys push the chemical envelope. Some puff up on synthol or the site injects . Some are all about shape and others are all about the mass at all costs ........We each present our art in our own way with in our own frame work .And we all use our own methods to get there .It is up to the artist to decide where he wants to go .

Art is ment to be appreciated , enjoyed , critiqued , and analyized . But the judging the artists means of getting there . And putting boundries of what's ok for an artist to use to create his or her art is missing the whole point . We are all different and working with in our own frame work. It is the artists job to educate themselves , and look with in to set boundries ,as well decide what means to use to best present their own art.......

Insulin is the most anabolic hormone is the body .I liked as a tool for myself in the past , and with people I 've worked with . Is it dangerous ? Yes .....but so is gear . [ sorry , no way to know what even low dose gear to your body ......could you get heart probs sooner ? Yep .....cancer sooner ? yep probs with liver and kidney's ? Yep .....I have seen all of these occur even in so called moderate users ] So I find it funny when guys attack other guys for using insulin or doses beyond what they think is safe ........a drug user is a drug user ......And none of us know whats really safe to an individual period .......Do we have an idea ? maybe ......Do I know what I feel comfortable with for me in the past or guys I advise ? Of course .........But thats me .......I just think it is up to each person to educate themselves and what direction they want to go with their physique as well as how they go about getting there ......

Successful people model themselves after other successful people. An artist should look for guys with similar type frames , structures , and muscle shapes as they have themselves . And then research how those people created the package that they are seeking . And while they are on the quest to create the " look " that they are after .......they can test , adapt , and envolve along the way ,so they can be the best they can be ........And eventually present their own version of what they are seeking ......If you have Zane's frame work you arent going to be a Dorian .......so maybe you should research his ideas and methods ....and go from there ......take your time ... this a life time pursuit.......you can't turn an apple into an orange no matter how many drugs you take .........So accept that .......understand the body , take care of it , but express yourself .........You get one life ........and it is your body to do as you wish . You are an artist .......be true to thy self...........

A reckless artist with no real understanding of who they are and what they want to be . Can reach great heights rather quickly . But they almost always crash and burn ...........Like I said ......take your time ....you have to learn yourself before you can express yourself ........there are many tools in the shed in bbing .......insulin is one of them .......but used correctly ,it is far from the devil .......they key to most of this life is simple ........" think !!!! before you act " "And be educated before make your choices."....All drugs have consequences and risks........ be hasty with insulin and you die period !!! So in the quest to build the body you can build ......just know who you are and what you want to be .........understand your body , the tools , the risks , and the methods that you want to get there . Remember , you only get one life .....cherish it ?

 

[whiteknucks]

its simple

if you have a hard time staying lean, then slin is gonna make you fatter.

if you hardly have to try to stay under 15%, then you will like the outcome.

like Iabadman said, its the most anabolic thing you can take. for some, its too anabolic!

 

[Massive G]

to what degree can you manipulate your own natural insulin levels thru diet and supplementation, without actually using expgeneous insulin? and secondly do you feel thats there is even a need for that?

You can manipulate insulin quite well every time you eat carbs of course.
Many have different dieting strategies-carb cycling and things like that.

For me it's post work out with simple carbs and proteins in liquid form that has always been an incredible anabolic burst for me-from the huge natural surge of insulin that is released by it. I found no difference using slin PWO than with out really, not enough to mitigate it's use.

the problem with injecting extra inslulin is you create a huge appetite and hunger...some fill it with proteins ala L Rea style that was going around on the boards a few years ago, maybe that's what some are doing here to control fat gain.

We are already altering our glucose metabolism and creating more insulin resistance as we age, as well as steroids and GH and insulin accelerate that as well.

 

[powerox]

You can manipulate insulin quite well every time you eat carbs of course.

We are already altering our glucose metabolism and creating more insulin resistance as we age, as well as steroids and GH and insulin accelerate that as well.

Will utilizing cinnamon curtail resistance at all, G?



PO

 

[MR. BMJ]

IAB, I agree brother.

BMJ

 

[powerox]

And as for slin, when appropriately situated within a protocol, can be quite effective. Here are pics of me from january and from last week. Weight is ~200lbs dry in either case.

*LOL*. A definite upgrade! I see a tad shad of bloat, yet muscle to fat/water gain is phenomenal! Muscle favored! It appears you increase your mass almost 3/4 from 'starting point *LOL*. Awesome gains bro!



PO

 

[plang]

There is a way to use insulin to make yourself more insulin sensitive rather than resistant....to each his own but in a years time frame I will have my contest weight go from 197 to 210-214 (not sure where I will end up) and in much better condition....I'm one of those guys who couldn't get fat if I tried and insulin was a key addition to make the calories I was eating stick. After my last contest I was stuck at 230 eating 4-6k cals a day consistently for a month....2 months later using insulin I was up to 245-50. I never went over 10 ius a day...which I think is key...along with a few other thngs designed to keep my insulin sensitivity high....my fasting blood glucose has actually improved as well.

 

[b-boy]

hey massive G! i noticed the title of the thread, and i also notice that people think that insulin is the secret of the pro's, i agree, hell i have used insulin im not saying its worthless, but its def not some huge secret as to how the pro's get huge. there is not one person on this thread that has said "I use insulin" that has blown me away with their muscle mass and made me say wow... so insulin is def. not the fucking secret.

I have nothing against insulin, I didn't like it, but i have nothing against others using it, do what you do like i have always said, but anyone thinking this shit is going to make them branch warren huge is making a jackass of a mistake, but everytime a pro blows the fuck up everyone screams insulin, well how come none of the insulin users on this thread are kai green huge? HMMMMMMM?????

 

[Iabadman]

Plang ......good post ......I agree......Insulin is the most anabolic hormone is the body ,but it also contributes to aging the most .......so controling it is paramount.......I like very low carb diets with lot of quality protiens and good fats .......with moderate carbs adjusted and timed around workouts ........I really liked small ammounts of insulin on the 3- 4 days a week that you train .[ no real need to ever workout more than that if you are training hard and heavy in the gym ......you have to recover to grow]

My take is you probably are going to get better growth ,stay leaner , and have better health using insulin and diet like this ........than a guy that just pounds the carbs all the time......and remember insulin is an off season tool to grow .......I am not a fan of it pre contest or just before jumping on stage .....you can gain some nice size with insulin and minimal risk if you are smart .And you definately will get bigger using insulin ,gh , test than you would with just gh and test alone........Insulin is not something you use yr around or over many yrs at a time......but like Big A sayes.....it is another peice of the puzzle .And a nice way to keep the gains moving forward. Like Massive G is eluding to ........Diet is the base of it all ...........controlling and manipulating your hormones with drugs is just a compliment to the diet you follow............

The old 90s insulin proticals were retarded ....using both long and short types of insulin......everyday [or just 1 or 2 days ] were reckless and were what helped the gh guts start to appear .....like Shelby said earlier ......match your insulin use to your food intake......not the other way around.......to work those old proticals you had to do the opposite not to kill yourself and thats were the problems started........a very small amount with a propper diet can go a very long way...........

 

[Iabadman]

B-boy .....I hear what you are saying ......but ask Milos if insulin wasn't the key to him , Nasser , fux ,dorian ,and Ronnie exploding as they did ? I have talked with .......dealt to and lived to see many advanced guys suddanly gain 10 to 25 lbs of lean bdy wt and knew that it was almost always several things....Increasing of test as a base , addition of gh , and then insulin.....[ face it .....look how hard you or say john have trained all your lives......is that making you that much bigger anymore honestly? Nope .......honesty think about that .....once you get close to your genetic max ......the training is secondary .....it is diet to gain condition and create environment .....then hormones for growth right ? Whether you are a low dose or not ......you want condition, it becomes a longer and harder diet .....you want size it becomes hormones ......I am not saying you have to jump 600 mgs of test a week to 1200 mg ......or 3 ius of gh to 6ius ......but you have to move forward if you want to progress .......bbing is a progressive endevor . Ask yourself have you got much bigger in the last several yr ? You train hard . Right ? And eat very well . Right ? But I bet you have stayed in the same anabolic range ? If you wanted to get bigger[not that you would because you are already a freak] .......I guarante at you would need to push things forward abit]

The are no secrets in bbing.....it is get progessively stronger [ but when you get to max strength thresholds it becomes more hormones] , create a diet that supports growth , rest ,relax , and recover ........the body doesn't want to be big and it will counter your every move ......but if you are consistant with the basics alot of guys can suprise themselves .......as long as you progressive with your lifting and eatting you will grow.....as that gets tougher it becomes more a game of hormones ........You respect John alot ......he and I are close ......and speak daily ....... ask him if he agrees with me ? I bet he does .......

About Phil health . Right before he turned pro [just before Jay helped him out ] He and were put in touch because he was looking for some help and sponsorship[I was sad I ended up not being able to help the guy , but Gald Jay saw his talent and came through where I had failed]........I will say this ....the guy was cool as hell ......really is gifted and is far from all drugs[ he told me his drug history to that point and it was less than most of the guys here use and he had very minimal knowledge .] But I can see where magnum thinks he added insulin to his regimin [does that make him a bad guy ?] Because look at his waist line .....his muscle .....He turned pro at 212 - 215 .......he is now expected to hit the stage at 240 ........I am sorry you don't get to the level of development of a Mr USA .....and then gain 25 lbs without adding in insulin and upping the gh as well as test abit. Brad .......what would it take for you to gain 25 lbs more muscle at your stage of development ? Harder training ......do you thing you can get that much stronger without getting hurt ? Could you eat that much more food and be ripped to hold that 25 LBs? Or would you have to bump the dosages alittle and maybe add in some insulin used in an intelligent manner?

Ronnie turned pro at 212 .......and ended up at 300 ........Yes , he has genetics like no other .......I see the points that you are getting at ......but the guys here are just trying to be the best they can be with in their own frame work ...They will not be Ronnie or even you.....Is insulin the secret ? Nope ......but can it be a tool to keep things moving forward in their quest to be the best they can be ..........I think so .....and so does every single pro of have I ever known .....