Why all of the sudden is insulin the "secret" again.

[Johnny Smiles]

your a funny guy

you just keep poking at me don't you bro, well im not going to bite. JESUS LOVES YOU and so do I

theres nothing to bite. i was just pointing out what D24 missed.
you are your biggest fan
-JS

 

[Gunsmith]

If insulin has gotten the Olympia level guys into the "shape" that they are now then I wish they would not use as much !!

I personaly don't like the super huge , comic book , freak look that they have now days.
They just look awkward and toady to me

Question for the guys that have used slin with sucess , do you keep the muscle you gain from it? or does it go away like alot of the mass does from a big cycle?

 

[myosin]

Finally....

If insulin has gotten the Olympia level guys into the "shape" that they are now then I wish they would not use as much !!

I personaly don't like the super huge , comic book , freak look that they have now days.
They just look awkward and toady to me

Question for the guys that have used slin with sucess , do you keep the muscle you gain from it? or does it go away like alot of the mass does from a big cycle?

That's actually a pretty good question... I have NO experience in this area (besides eating way too much junk and producing too much of my own insulin leading me to be a fatty)... buy anyhow... If I try to think of it simply from a physiological standpoint, I'd guess the muscle is pretty much "yours" but of course can atrophy and lose glycogen storage abilities like any other muscle if you were to stop training, eating poorly, etc. BUT, if you went "off" insulin and otherwise kept diet and training spot on, it will remain yours.

 

[b-boy]

theres nothing to bite. i was just pointing out what D24 missed.
you are your biggest fan
-JS

LOL johnny...LOL you may be right just as your signature speaks volumes of your mindset also and that you felt the need to put that as your signature

 

[betito]

theres nothing to bite. i was just pointing out what D24 missed.
you are your biggest fan
-JS

This sport is crazy if you don´t believe in yourself... b-boy is very concerned about his family, he would not chase the bbing dream if he didn´t believe in himself and his potential

 

[myosin]

Two things...

1) B-Boy doesn't need my "help", but if I can share, I would say B-Boy is simply a "self-assured" person... not arrogant/conceited/etc. Self-assurance is a good thing, he know's his strengths, but it also means the person is assured enough to admit weakness/fault/blame/etc... things of which I've seen of him on this board.

2) Can we start talking about insulin again?

 

[NY Muscle]

You don´t need 25 pounds of muscle to turn pro... you only need 5 extra weeks of dieting

Amen on that point.

 

[b-boy]

ok back to insulin, i will tell you why im not a fan and stopped using it. I was using it back in HMMM 2005-2006 and just had too many problems, i work swing shift and I would go to the gym in the afternoon and then take 5-8 Iu's of insulin and no matter how many carbs i ate after that if i had to do some physical work (go to work on midnightshift) i would go hypo and get the shakes, sweat profusely, and feel like shit. one time i worked out at 10 in the morning took my insulin, some carbs and decided to have some carbs with every meal after that, well at 7pm that night i decided to sweep off the back porch and deck and i wasn't out there 10 mins when i started to sweat like a mad man and felt like shit, shaky, dizzy and man that was it for me. The nail in the coffin was when i went hypo at work and a diabetic pricked my finger and checked my blood sugar and looked at me with this holy shit look while looking at the glucose monitor and told me point blank "Brad whatever your doing please stop this is not good at all brother". that was the end of my insulin experiment.

 

[myosin]

Shelby

It sounds like Shelby's brief post carried a lot of wisdom in a few people's minds here... Shelby, can you elaborate a little?

 

[Shelby]

It sounds like Shelby's brief post carried a lot of wisdom in a few people's minds here... Shelby, can you elaborate a little?

Well okay... here is a little elaboration:

1. Most people use way too much insulin (and way too many carbs)
2. I like long acting insulin better than short
3. I'm not too sold on the whole workout insulin idea, pre or post (depends on timing though, when you train, etc.)
4. I don't like insulin while dieting, generally speaking (maybe on carb up days)

 

[myosin]

Amount...

Well okay... here is a little elaboration:

1. Most people use way too much insulin (and way too many carbs)
2. I like long acting insulin better than short
3. I'm not too sold on the whole workout insulin idea, pre or post (depends on timing though, when you train, etc.)
4. I don't like insulin while dieting, generally speaking (maybe on carb up days)

I understand the details might be a little "delicate" to share and perhaps "proprietary" for you... do you use a "sliding scale"? For example, for our diabetics in the ICU, we give "X" amount of insulin for "Y" amount of carbs. Is that similar to your philosophy then? This is a little different than those who are hyperglycemic because they are on a solumedrol drip where we check their blood sugar AND THEN give a certain amount of insulin.

 

[Shelby]

I understand the details might be a little "delicate" to share and perhaps "proprietary" for you... do you use a "sliding scale"? For example, for our diabetics in the ICU, we give "X" amount of insulin for "Y" amount of carbs. Is that similar to your philosophy then? This is a little different than those who are hyperglycemic because they are on a solumedrol drip where we check their blood sugar AND THEN give a certain amount of insulin.

never more than 8ius (R)... sometimes even as low as 2ius... depends on a lot of factors, of course

 

[Shelby]

If insulin has gotten the Olympia level guys into the "shape" that they are now then I wish they would not use as much !!

I personaly don't like the super huge , comic book , freak look that they have now days.
They just look awkward and toady to me

Question for the guys that have used slin with sucess , do you keep the muscle you gain from it? or does it go away like alot of the mass does from a big cycle?

Look up myofibrillar vs. sarcoplasmic hypertrophy... that will give you some insight.

 

[Rex Feral]

Well okay... here is a little elaboration:

1. Most people use way too much insulin (and way too many carbs)
2. I like long acting insulin better than short
3. I'm not too sold on the whole workout insulin idea, pre or post (depends on timing though, when you train, etc.)
4. I don't like insulin while dieting, generally speaking (maybe on carb up days)

Is there a real trend back towards using long acting slin? I see Johnny Smiles mentioned he preferred it as well. I am with Iabadman, the very first protocols we used back in the early 90s included long acting slin, but most pretty much abandoned long acting by the mid-late 90s. I suppose the difference is that long & short were mostly used together back then. I know there is a trend towards long acting in Europe and we have two people here who prefer it, so I guess I answered my question.

I assume those who use long prefer Lantus because there is no "peak" time resulting in a steady release. Or do you use other long acting that peak (e.g. U, Levemir, N or L)?

What do you perceive are the differences? i.e. Why do you prefer long over short? What are the perceived advantages of long vs. short?

On a side note, I find the tone of this thread in parts and the demonization of insulin to be a bit strange. Well intentioned perhaps, but it reminds me of the people who drink alcohol and or/smoke tobacco every day who preach that comparably benign substances like marijuana for example should not be used. Hypocrites. Just because you don't choose to do a certain drug b/c it does not work well for you does not mean you have the right to belittle those who do. Drug users, bemoaning other drug users, for their choice of drugs.

You would have to be a complete idiot to kill yourself shooting insulin. Of course there are many complete idiots out there. When is the last time you saw someone posted about a severe problem with insulin? You know a lot of guys here shoot it. But it was just a couple of months ago some idiot had to go to the ER from True Protein caffeine powder wasn't it? Anything can be dangerous in the hands of a complete idiot. Who believes insulin is the "secret" anyway? No one in their right mind actually believes this. Insulin is a fact of life in bodybuilding now, has been for quite awhile and it always will be. That's the reality of it. Nothing has changed lately, it has been this way for years. You can preach and bemoan until you're blue in the face but it won't change anything.

Rex.

 

[Mega Squat]

ok back to insulin, i will tell you why im not a fan and stopped using it. I was using it back in HMMM 2005-2006 and just had too many problems, i work swing shift and I would go to the gym in the afternoon and then take 5-8 Iu's of insulin and no matter how many carbs i ate after that if i had to do some physical work (go to work on midnightshift) i would go hypo and get the shakes, sweat profusely, and feel like shit. one time i worked out at 10 in the morning took my insulin, some carbs and decided to have some carbs with every meal after that, well at 7pm that night i decided to sweep off the back porch and deck and i wasn't out there 10 mins when i started to sweat like a mad man and felt like shit, shaky, dizzy and man that was it for me. The nail in the coffin was when i went hypo at work and a diabetic pricked my finger and checked my blood sugar and looked at me with this holy shit look while looking at the glucose monitor and told me point blank "Brad whatever your doing please stop this is not good at all brother". that was the end of my insulin experiment.

What insulin did you use? That makes no sense, if you took your insulin(assuming short acting) at 10am and you went hypo at 7pm. What if you didn't have physical labor?? Obviously if you are doing physical labor after working out, you are going to need to account for my carbs in your diet while on insulin.

Is this your only experience with insulin, when you were working a full time physical labor job after taking it??

 

[powerox]

Is there a real trend back towards using long acting slin? I see Johnny Smiles mentioned he preferred it as well. I am with Iabadman, the very first protocols we used back in the early 90s included long acting slin, but most pretty much abandoned long acting by the mid-late 90s. I suppose the difference is that long & short were mostly used together back then. I know there is a trend towards long acting in Europe and we have two people here who prefer it, so I guess I answered my question.

I assume those who use long prefer Lantus because there is no "peak" time resulting in a steady release. Or do you use other long acting that peak (e.g. U, Levemir, N or L)?

What do you perceive are the differences? i.e. Why do you prefer long over short? What are the perceived advantages of long vs. short?

On a side note, I find the tone of this thread in parts and the demonization of insulin to be a bit strange. Well intentioned perhaps, but it reminds me of the people who drink alcohol and or/smoke tobacco every day who preach that comparably benign substances like marijuana for example should not be used. Hypocrites. Just because you don't choose to do a certain drug b/c it does not work well for you does not mean you have the right to belittle those who do. Drug users, bemoaning other drug users, for their choice of drugs.

You would have to be a complete idiot to kill yourself shooting insulin. Of course there are many complete idiots out there. When is the last time you saw someone posted about a severe problem with insulin? You know a lot of guys here shoot it. But it was just a couple of months ago some idiot had to go to the ER from True Protein caffeine powder wasn't it? Anything can be dangerous in the hands of a complete idiot. Who believes insulin is the "secret" anyway? No one in their right mind actually believes this. Insulin is a fact of life in bodybuilding now, has been for quite awhile and it always will be. That's the reality of it. Nothing has changed lately, it has been this way for years. You can preach and bemoan until you're blue in the face but it won't change anything. Rex.

Hit the nail right on the head! Excellent post! Especially the bold.



PO

 

[Gunsmith]

Look up myofibrillar vs. sarcoplasmic hypertrophy... that will give you some insight.

OK , from Winkipedia
Types of hypertrophy
There are two different types of muscular hypertrophy: sarcoplasmic and myofibrillar. During sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, the volume of sarcoplasmic fluid in the muscle cell increases with no accompanying increase in muscular strength. During myofibrillar hypertrophy, actin and myosin contractile proteins increase in number and add to muscular strength as well as a small increase in the size of the muscle. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is characteristic of the muscles of bodybuilders while myofibrillar hypertrophy is characteristic of Olympic weightlifters.[1]

So which one do we get from insulin usage? or is it a combo of both?

It seems to me that even with the sarcoplasmic hypertrophy you would see some strength gain from the added volume in the muscle giving it a better mechanical advantage right , sort of the same way that AAS that cause huge bloat give better power gains over some that don't bloat you

 

[mandalay]

ok back to insulin, i will tell you why im not a fan and stopped using it. I was using it back in HMMM 2005-2006 and just had too many problems, i work swing shift and I would go to the gym in the afternoon and then take 5-8 Iu's of insulin and no matter how many carbs i ate after that if i had to do some physical work (go to work on midnightshift) i would go hypo and get the shakes, sweat profusely, and feel like shit. one time i worked out at 10 in the morning took my insulin, some carbs and decided to have some carbs with every meal after that, well at 7pm that night i decided to sweep off the back porch and deck and i wasn't out there 10 mins when i started to sweat like a mad man and felt like shit, shaky, dizzy and man that was it for me. The nail in the coffin was when i went hypo at work and a diabetic pricked my finger and checked my blood sugar and looked at me with this holy shit look while looking at the glucose monitor and told me point blank "Brad whatever your doing please stop this is not good at all brother". that was the end of my insulin experiment.

Did you use long or short acting? and I assume you weren't using GH with it?.. this is pure curiosity, I'm in it for the long haul, got years before I go there..

 

[Massive G]

This was not an insulin demonization thread.
And yes many post all the time that the reason PRO X made the gains they made were because of insulin.
Hardly.

I will be posting a thread in the next day which will be my last on on drugs and genetics thread and then deal only with training and diet.

I have grown so tired of the "all drugs" debate and the lopsided arguments on both one side or the other-these threads get ugly and turn personal-who's right and who's wrong..not me..not you..not they...just everyone should be able to post their opinion -agree or not people should still be cordial to each other that's the least we could do since we are all here for the same thing...just too many egos...and freaks and geeks...

 

[powerox]

Shit man! this happens everytime. I good thread comes along, then bam! shit hits the fan.




PO