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why use anti-oxidents?

Simpllyhuge

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Well this convo is way beyond me. I asked because I heard on super human radio a long time ago, that anti oxidants right around training or post training can affect the compensatory response one is looking for in training for hypertrophy.
If that's true or how that falls into the greater grand scheme of things is beyond me and am curious what you guys think?
 
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zaosha

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Well this convo is way beyond me. I asked because I heard on super human radio a long time ago, that anti oxidants right around training or post training can affect the compensatory response one is looking for in training for hypertrophy.
If that's true or how that falls into the greater grand scheme of things is beyond me and am curious what you guys think?

I just take my anti-oxidants in the morning with some pomegranate juice (shown to reduce the size of arterial plaques) and lift later i the day. I do this for jealth and longevity benefits and not because I think it will positively impact muscle mass.

There really is no research demonstrating that anti-oxidants will blunt hypertrophy if taken around training in humans, that is an extrapolation based on what happens to muscle cells exposed to these compounds in vitro.

But there also isn't a study out there showing anti-oxidants improving training adaptations - and a few of these studies have been done. Actuallly, I think one showed moderate doses of NAC improved endurance slightly, but that is about it.
 

anabolicscuba

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Somebody should make this stuff in one pill or a animal pak like thing. I'm way to lazy to look for all that stuff separately..lol.
 

LK3

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your points kinda make themselfs.

the tiny signals that you mention associated with green tea, are just like what you point out in regards to training.

however they also relate to inflamation.

using the anti-ox we combat inflamation and provide greater working ability in the gym.

lots of people take all kinds of anti-ox. they are not taking the stuff im talking about. its on an entirey different level. i have eaten pretty much everything thing out there nothing, nothing nothing nothing, comes anywhere close to just using resveratrol.

i have yet to see anyone else using this protocol. i have yet to see anyone else using these methods.

there is no real evidence to support all of what im saying in any studdy because there are too many variabless, we can not isolate things and if we did it would be a different situation.

but i have a group of very experiance eliete level atheletes that has spent 2+ years using this stuff and mroe like 10 putting it together. all have the same responce. this can not be done in a study, these are people that live on diets, people that know exactly what they are going to do for there next training session and know wheather or not they are improving, not just by a mirror.

in no way am i suggesting that some random 20yo is going to get the same results ffrom these as they would by slamming down 1.5g of test and tren after his 3rd month at planet fitness.

what i am telling you is that for people with real experiance and real know how these compounds allow you to push your body in a different and more healthy or addvantagous way wihc will result in the type of performace and condition that could be achieved only with much higher aas use.

i will say it again, these are not begginer compounds, these are for the guys that have been there and done all the other stuff, that live on a strict diet and training regieme and are genuinely working to become there best.

Biology isn't necessarily intuitive. Lots of the potent antioxidants like EGCG have been found to significantly decrease levels of transcriptional factors essential to skeletal muscle hypertrophy like COMT, ERK1, etc.

Now it could be that due to dosage and bioavailability your muscle tissue never actually hits the concentrations necessary to significantly inhibit protein synthesis, but if that is the case, then touting them for their direct effects on skeletal muscle is silly.



What you just said would be like pointing out that training dramatically increases protein breakdown in skeletal muscle without mentioning that the increase in protein synthesis more than compensates for this effect.

Training induces ROS. It is also an extremely potent potentiator of your endogenous defenses to ROS. If training resulted in a net increase in ROS and accompanying DNA damage, then exercise would reduce lifespan. The fact that the opposite occurs should tell us something.

I have known plenty of life extension folks who workout daily and have taken fucking immense dosages of potent anti-oxidants for years. And none of them look like they are on a gram+ of gear. Quite the opposite.

I am not saying these compounds aren't worth taking and they may have tremendous benefit for blood vessels, overall cardiovascular health, reduced cancer risk, immune function, and lots of other things which are way more important to me than a few pounds of muscle at my age.

But there is simply zero evidence in the scientific literaure or in epidemiogical data to support that more anti-oxidants = more muscle. It is amost entirely the opposite. Cultures which consume lots of potent anti-oxidants naturally tend to be physically smaller than their counterparts elsewhere, in vitro data shows reductions in protein synthesis signals, and in vivo human research in has consistently shown zero strength/hypertrophy gains in respons to high dose anti-oxidants.
 

LK3

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I have always had a and renal fatigue type symptoms, so hope fully these will help.
Green tea and NAC and C are my main oxidants right now.
Assuming those injectables listed are expensive, I wonder if they can be he brewed?

your adreanal fatigue is coming from some other place, doyou drink lots of caffine or use stims?

i have used NAC for about 10 years at 1.5-3+g ed. one shot of 100mg/ml glut showed me that there is no comparison.

i can not stress how much stronger these compounds are.

with NAC and even oral SOD i still can get sick. using the injects it just does not happen, i can be around sick people, or do things that would normally make me sick, when using this stuff it just does not happen.

my gf is in no way religous about taking any supps, usually doesnt take any, if she starts to get sick i can have feeling 100% in a day or 2 with anti-ox, she has not been sick since doing what i say. we live in the northeast, she is not from here and before used to get sick several times a year. oh and she also looses weight and looks younger... as does every other woman i have doing this...lol!
 

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