WHY VOLUME WORKS..

[Massive G]

Edited response.

Didn't see this thread was 4 years old.

 

[aesop]

NO EXERCISE PHYS person I know would say that non failure volume training is better than High intensity(not necessarily 1 set balls out but going very heavy and failing on a few sets) or that continuous varying is best. All of these work out schemes should have a place in every athletes arsenal! What type of athlete they are simply determines where they will spend most of their time. I dont believe any credible exercise physiology person would solely recommend 1 type of training as better than another. There are benefits and detriments to all types of training.

This is my opinion as an exercise phys guy

 

[Magnum]

Why is it that some people assume that if you do volume then you must not be training with high intensity?

 

[aesop]

Why is it that some people assume that if you do volume then you must not be training with high intensity?

Because they are essentially mutually exclusive.

 

[km2000]

i am of the experience that your body will adapt to any training and a change is needed to keep the stimulis fresh....

i have done them all, and at first i was like "oh ya hit is the way to go, i teained a total of1 and 1/2 hrs this week and i am a few lbs heavier!" then aftewr a few weeks the gains slow and i would try something else.... most if us are bull headed so we dont experiement with too many trianing styles except the same one we did in high school with our buddies....changing the workout style every 4-5 weeks has been my token to growing(on aas or not) that means changing intensity as well, your body cant go at 100% all the time! it needs brief breaks for the training to fullt recoup the cns and to get your head straight and stay exited about being and going to the gym.... i have taken a few days off and a few days of low intensity training and right when i'm back to a normal training routine i am stoked to get in the gym and my progress will improve as well.....

 

[Liphted]

i am of the experience that your body will adapt to any training and a change is needed to keep the stimulis fresh....

I wholeheartedly agree. I think a lot of people don't realize how well, and aggressively actually, our bodies try to adapt to the stimulus' we place ourselves under. Variation is key, and lately I've been taking that to an extreme and feel it's been working quite well. To elaborate a bit, I've always mixed things up after about a 5-6 week run, depending on when gains/progress started leveling out. But more recently I've been incorporating concepts and ideas from various principles and run with them depending upon how I feel. Somedays the intensity is there and I go with "HIT", other days I feel like "volume" is the way to go. This decision is mainly influenced by cns, recovery, and really my mental state at the time. It's sort of a deterministic chaotic approach if you will (yes, I know I'm stretching it a bit there).

I think there is a huge gap that a lot of BB'ers never connect between mind and body and get so caught up in, "I'm a HIT/Volume/Whatever and everything else sucks". NOTHING is perfect and pigeon holing yourself into one category is only robbing you of the benefits other approaches have to offer. Be fluid, be dynamic, be chaotic.

 

[oldfella]

I believe in keeping things simple. After thirty + yrs training you need to change things often. I rarely do the same workout for a Body part week to week. I do believe the volume approach to be amongst the best way to train but change the exercises and tempo, go to failure sometimes and others just pull up a bit short of failure. I try to go by the feel. if I can't feel my chest contract I stop there. I use a lot of mental concentration when i train. Mind muscle connection works in a big way. it has taken a lot of years to achieve this. But I still work heavy, well heavy for me anyway. I am growing and getting leaner. So something is working big time!!

 

[Wana B Big]

Training vol for me is a waist of time,my body just can't grow on such an onslaught of sets. If vol works so well every punk that picks up a muscle mag and follows those work outs would be huge,just have a look at old footage of Arnie off the gear working out six days a week,skinny and flat. Although training on gear vol style worked well for him and many others,for me even on the gear I train twice a week and im sore, just short of workout to work out. Allowing for over compensation = growth, and it is a different intensity vol to hit,vol is like runing a marathon then runing that marathon again the next day.
Then again for a total of six work outs wich would be the traditoinal vol style. How can you compare that to sprinting twice per week,or look at it this way, playing football six days per week for 1.5 hrs a day or a boxing title bout six days back to back. It's no different to a hard core body buliding workout, I know that 2 times a week is enough for me. That's just my personal opinion.

 

[STEEDA69]

hit programs that are followed by natural trainers are seldom followed by big gains. it seems to work when one is aided to a extent. like i said, i follow hit alot of the time but, notice that when performed "natural" i have been less then impressed with the gains.

REALLY! I made my absolute BEST gains as a natural lifter using HIT workout protocols. However, It didn't work quite as well while using gear! Therefore, I would agree with the premise of increased "volume" (relatively speaking), while using AAS and/or any other "supplemental" assistance!

The best type of training IS the type that works for YOU! We hear this all the time, but it's SO true!

JD~

 

[bigfatandugly]

i have tried both over the course of 12 years.

now i am making the best gains of my life training each bodypart twice every 8 days or so using lighter weight and more reps. my supplement doses are the same as they were before i started volume.

i don't have the ailments that used to affect my joints, and my body has undergone drastic changes in symmetry and has a more eye pleasing shape to it now.

from now on i'll i will only train volume, with the odd workout when i feel it needed that makes me rely more on the heavy compound movements for each bodypart.


BFU

 

[maldorf]

I agree that volume works better for me in bodybuilding. If I am worried about being strong then HIT is better, but my physique does not look as good. I feel that I grow better using volume, and that higher intensity must affect the nervous system and make it more efficient. I usually cycle my rep range and volume, and about 1 week out of the month I will train HIT but then its back to higher volume to give the joints a rest.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

So let me ask you this... If it's a leg day (mine is wednesday) which is the better squat day in your opinion?

A. squats 12 sets x 4 reps w/465lbs (22,320lbs total) (no failure)

-or-

B. squats 4 sets x 20 reps w/275lbs (22,000lbs total) (no failure)

-or-

C. squats 1 or 2 warmup sets and then 1 all-out set (4-6 reps) w/585 (failure or close)

I've always done A.

 

[Massive G]

So let me ask you this... If it's a leg day (mine is wednesday) which is the better squat day in your opinion?

A. squats 12 sets x 4 reps w/465lbs (22,320lbs total) (no failure)

-or-

B. squats 4 sets x 20 reps w/275lbs (22,000lbs total) (no failure)

-or-

C. squats 1 or 2 warmup sets and then 1 all-out set (4-6 reps) w/585 (failure or close)

I've always done A.

have you gottten progressively stronger as you have gotten bigger?

 

[STEVO 47]

He views training as a marathon, not a sprint...
Also, is it not true that almost every pro uses volume as the mainstay of their training routines? At least every single one that I have talked to or seen train does... I know a few such as Dugdale (which is one of my absolute favorite bodybuilders), Henry and a few others don't rely on volume, but almost everyone else does...

Too many sets. Too many reps = overtraining
And compare a marathon runners legs to a sprinters.
Short intense workouts all the way. I would never take
the training advice from Jay or Ron anyway, these guys will grow
doing just about anything...... My opinion

 

[OuchThatHurts]

have you gottten progressively stronger as you have gotten bigger?

Yeah. Definitely. But then I find myself needing a month off because my hips and shoulders, knees, etc. need a break. So I ramp up pretty good and then lay off. So maybe I need to settle into something that's more practical year round. I'd say minus bodyfat, I've gained about 5lbs per year over the last 5-6 years. That's such a pie-in-the-sky guess though but that's what I'm thinking after looking at my older books.

I read these people saying "I gained 20lbs in 12 weeks!" I never gained that kind of weight in my life. I've blown up 20lbs with water but I don't really count that as "gaining". At the gym, we all still lift major movements and move as much weight as possible ("we" being an ever fewer number).

I didn't even look or feel like the same guy when I dropped weight. Plus I lost a lot of strength that is just now starting to come back.

I know I've heard a lot people say more size=more strength but I'm starting to think that's less than half the story after what I've seen in real life. I think it's true to some degree though. I think maybe some degree of periodization is necessary if you want to be strong and have good size/symmetry at the same time. If all you want is size, size, and more size than I see a lot of volume in your future.

Take this all with a grain of salt because as soon as I start reading an article about methods, I always seem to stop a few sentences in after reading something like "This is the optimal way to train for mass and strength." I think those articles would just have me off on wild goose chases when gaining should be kept very simple. So far the only training style I have is "Lift very heavy weights, many, many times." LOL nah seriously, these threads here are my favorite threads on ProM. Wish we had an "all training" section where we wouldn't have to sift through the "Is this the right amount of dope for me?" threads.

 

[STEVO 47]

Swerv, How can you compare a skater to a sprinter. Whole differant ball game
And if I'm not mistakin one main reason a skater needs good leg
development is to get a good jump at the starting line. And again brings
the point of short intense burts. After that most is glidding
airodynamics and skill. Look, if volume works for you then go for it.
I don't know, sometimes I think it depends on the amount of fast twitch
fibers to slow twitch.

 

[STEVO 47]

Let me add this and hopefully some that may know more could chime
in. I always thought that the release of GH during a workout peaks
within 45 min. and then starts to decline. Which makes me think
that after about an hour would be a waist of time and effort.

 

[Golgo13]

VOLUME = primarily Sarcoplasmic growth, or cellular volumization.
HIT = primarily Myofribril growth, or creation of new tissue.

Both grow muscle, but only one kind of muscle really counts in the long run.

 

[STEVO 47]

Dude

My intentions are not to argue but to state my opinion.
I go by my lifting experiences and what I've seen and heard
for over thirty years. I use to know alot of big boys and
not a one waisted time with a whole lota sets and light weight.
Now I will say that they have done a set or two with reps at around
15 to 20 with mod. weight just for a pump and thats it.
anyway I have no problem with you swerv till ya called me DUDE

 

[maldorf]

I know I've heard a lot people say more size=more strength but I'm starting to think that's less than half the story after what I've seen in real life. I think it's true to some degree though. I think maybe some degree of periodization is necessary if you want to be strong and have good size/symmetry at the same time. If all you want is size, size, and more size than I see a lot of volume in your future.

I agree totally with you on this. If you look at some of the smaller powerlifters they really dont have that much muscular size but are strong as hell. Ive seen guys in the gym much smaller than me benching 100 lbs more than me, and a long time ago there was a guy with toothpick legs I watched squat over 500 lbs to depth. If you look at when someone first starts doing a particular exercise they will increase greatly in strength the first month or so but they dont gain any muscle really. It is all coordination and how the nerves fire, things become much more efficient as you learn how to do the exercise. I think the same applies when you lift HIT. When I train in a powerlifting style for 8 weeks or so my strenght skyrockets, but I dont gain that much bodyweight really. In fact my appearance becomes less muscular.