Why?

[bbxtreme]

I don't agree, Flex's success is not due to his records at 212, but to other factors that you mentioned.

You talk about winning money, well, at the Olympia, the 212 champion gets 50,000 dollars, the open champion gets 400,000. The Arnold doesn't have 212, while the champion gets 300,000.

I am a fan of 212 and I think they should receive more prize money.

Kai is no rare exception, Flex is.

That’s the beauty of open forums- different opinions and don’t have to agree.

1st place winner goes a lot further than 3rd place does in business. Flex being a multiple O “winner” laid his foundation. Far more people remember 1st place than 3rd or 4th.

If I’m Monster Energy or a top supplement brand I am signing Flex (which they did) not the other guys and his pay would be higher. Which is where the real money is made.

And in terms of Kai- how many guys from his era could still step on stage and look like he does… Phil would be a year out to even get close. That’s the exception I was referring to.

 

[Eguz22]

That’s the beauty of open forums- different opinions and don’t have to agree.

1st place winner goes a lot further than 3rd place does in business. Flex being a multiple O “winner” laid his foundation. Far more people remember 1st place than 3rd or 4th.

If I’m Monster Energy or a top supplement brand I am signing Flex (which they did) not the other guys and his pay would be higher. Which is where the real money is made.

And in terms of Kai- how many guys from his era could still step on stage and look like he does… Phil would be a year out to even get close. That’s the exception I was referring to.

I never felt Flex was as popular as you say he is, but it's not because of the titles in 212.

In some ways Flex has more success after competing than Phil, they both have the same titles, but we all understand that Phil was a bodybuilder for the history books, while Flex was not. I'm sure it's because of his personality, Flex is nice and people like him, Phil never had much support despite all his victories.

An example, DLB only won one Olympia title at WPD, Juliana won 4 titles, Sarah is probably going to break the record. Dana is more popular than the rest, she took advantage of being the first winner and also that fitness was exploding at the time in youtube.

 

[bbxtreme]

I never felt Flex was as popular as you say he is, but it's not because of the titles in 212.

In some ways Flex has more success after competing than Phil, they both have the same titles, but we all understand that Phil was a bodybuilder for the history books, while Flex was not. I'm sure it's because of his personality, Flex is nice and people like him, Phil never had much support despite all his victories.

An example, DLB only won one Olympia title at WPD, Juliana won 4 titles, Sarah is probably going to break the record. Dana is more popular than the rest, she took advantage of being the first winner and also that fitness was exploding at the time in youtube.

Yeah I think Flex could have and should have done more with his name and brand sooner. He’s got a unique build for sure.

But going off the topic of the thread I personally don’t think he would have done as well in the open because of his unique build.

 

[slesh]

I’ve thought about this a lot. It’s a shame they didn’t have 212 and Classic back in the day. Guys like Lee Labrada and Shawn Ray would have multiple Olympias. Even Dexter would probably have ruled 212 for a while because he definitely could have gotten under that weight.

PS - I know I’m gonna get clowned and in the minority here but I would take Shawn’s physique any day over Dorian.

 

[pesty4077]

I'd like to see Bumstead next to Derek, Hadi, Samson. I've wondered how that would be judged.

It would be wildly popular, at least with younger and tangential fans. The placing would drive a rift in the sport though.

Just think of Frank Zane and when he went up against the bigger guys.

 

[pesty4077]

2023 Mr Olympia top 10 had like 3 former 212 guys and 1st and 2nd place were formal 212 bodybuilders.

Shawn Ray didn't need to be 220 something or 230 something to battle the giants he was only 206 in that 1996 Mr. Olympia.

I trained with Shawn a few times around 94. I was 265 and he was cutting down. We both had t shirts on. He mentioned to me how big l was at the time. I laughed and said, "If we both took our shirts off, I look foolish next to you." He will be to me one of the most complete Bodybuilders ever.

 

[Eguz22]

Yeah I think Flex could have and should have done more with his name and brand sooner. He’s got a unique build for sure.

But going off the topic of the thread I personally don’t think he would have done as well in the open because of his unique build.

He competed in the open on occasion, but did not return after started winning the Olympia and the rest of the shows. A pity, he could have got what Derek or Hadi got, the big title.

2011 Arnold Classic Europe - IFBB

2011 European Pro - IFBB

 

[Biggerp73]

I'll say this - if you do a bodybuilding show on the street and Cbum and Markus Ruhl are in their prime, who do you think more people will follow?
Of course it's for Markus, because it's something that seems impossible to achieve - people like to watch weirdos, that's why they go to the circus - but that doesn't mean they want to look like weirdos because that's why the classic is so popular

Of course 99% of the general population will not want to look like Ruhl or Ronnie. They just want to look sexy and athletic. But for actual bodybuilders, we all want the combination of real size and aesthetics, not just one or the other.

 

[Biggerp73]

View attachment 185578View attachment 185579

@Biggerp73

I don't know what you think this means.

Of course Cbum is more popular.

But what does that have to do with the question of whether the average bodybuilder wants to be only aesthetic or both big and aesthetic?

 

[alfresco]

It was actually Jay's podcast with guest Shawn Ray that brought this topic up and made me post about it. Also the other topic of cbum going to open.

Thanks for that Brad.

I am out of the country now but did download the Shawn Ray podcast which is Jay’s longest. I did listen to the cbum one though.

I missed you mentioning about Jays podcast and I read all your posts.

If you listen to all of Jays podcasts (and I have) he drops some real gems in there. I means some real eye opening thoughtful gems about trading and diet. And I really like him as a person, one of the few I would actually like to sit down and talk with.

Do you know of any other Mr. Olympias that have podcasts. I am not aware of any.

 

[alfresco]

Yeah I have seen him on there and was just making the point he doesn’t have nearly the exposure as Flex Lewis does.

Cutler was and will likely stay years ahead with the media game and podcast. He was the first to really start up the videos and social game in the sport. He actually goes in depth about it on Flex’s podcast. Cool story when you hear it all.

I did check out Flex’s podcast. I had high hopes but it didn’t pan out. Maybe I should give him another chance as I want to like them and I think he has one of the best physiques despite never training calves

 

[Samson250]

I’ve thought about this a lot. It’s a shame they didn’t have 212 and Classic back in the day. Guys like Lee Labrada and Shawn Ray would have multiple Olympias. Even Dexter would probably have ruled 212 for a while because he definitely could have gotten under that weight.

PS - I know I’m gonna get clowned and in the minority here but I would take Shawn’s physique any day over Dorian.

I don’t know if this is common with “normys” or just my experience but when I was young and started getting interested in bodybuilding I started with Arnold then out of curiosity looked up the winner of the 2003 Mr O and saw Ronnie. Then got to Dorian and the big guys.

I’m a mass monster freak and those guys were my gateway to learning about the rest of the sport. The other divisions, who they were, the NPC and how to spot up and comers.

You guys taught me the rest and Ive really come to appreciate more than just size.

Having said that my preference will always be for the big freaks! The more ridiculous the better!!

 

[buck]

I’ve thought about this a lot. It’s a shame they didn’t have 212 and Classic back in the day. Guys like Lee Labrada and Shawn Ray would have multiple Olympias. Even Dexter would probably have ruled 212 for a while because he definitely could have gotten under that weight.

PS - I know I’m gonna get clowned and in the minority here but I would take Shawn’s physique any day over Dorian.

Opinions differ! Put Yates and Shawn in a crowd and i think i know who will get looked at more. But Platz was my first hero in BB. And i am a fan boy also of Yates and Branch Warren so go figure! Maybe if i stood a chance of being pretty that might have been different but that wasn't going to happen!

 

[alfresco]

Thanks for that Brad.

I am out of the country now but did download the Shawn Ray podcast which is Jay’s longest. I did listen to the cbum one though.

I missed you mentioning about Jays podcast and I read all your posts.

If you listen to all of Jays podcasts (and I have) he drops some real gems in there. I means some real eye opening thoughtful gems about trading and diet. And I really like him as a person, one of the few I would actually like to sit down and talk with.

Do you know of any other Mr. Olympias that have podcasts. I am not aware of any.

Brain fart.

Flex, 212 Mr. Olympia, has a podcast.

What I find interesting at least about myself is that when I think of Mr. Olympia I think of the open class, not the 212, could only come up with one name off the top of my head.

Now the open class, I can pretty much name them all.

What that tell ya?

 

[b-boy]

Brain fart.

Flex, 212 Mr. Olympia, has a podcast.

What I find interesting at least about myself is that when I think of Mr. Olympia I think of the open class, not the 212, could only come up with one name off the top of my head.

Now the open class, I can pretty much name them all.

What that tell ya?

There is ONLY ONE Mr. Olympia and that is the open class winner. The rest are just class winners at the Mr. Olympia contest.

 

[alfresco]

There is ONLY ONE Mr. Olympia and that is the open class winner. The rest are just class winners at the Mr. Olympia contest.

“Technically” I did not know that.

So can they call them selves Mr. Olympia?

 

[mayan]

“Technically” I did not know that.

So can they call them selves Mr. Olympia?

No. Only those Who have won a Sandow Trophy can do that.

 

[alfresco]

No. Only those Who have won a Sandow Trophy can do that.

Thanks.

Why I did not know that is beyond me

 

[bbxtreme]

“Technically” I did not know that.

So can they call them selves Mr. Olympia?

They’re not, but they do “call” them selves 212 and classic Mr. Olympia. That’s Hany’s beef with the sport- it’s being diluted by having these other classes and titles.

 

[b-boy]

No. Only those Who have won a Sandow Trophy can do that.

THIS ^^^^
The owner of the Sandow Trophy is "MR. OLYMPIA"