Yates and Layne not agreeing with each other

[KillerStack]

Funny how many in this thread are now doubting Layne's natural status. He has always been thought of as "very obviously natural" here before.

But because he dissed Dorian he's now a druggie.

 

[dtp3347]

Funny how many in this thread are now doubting Layne's natural status. He has always been thought of as "very obviously natural" here before.

But because he dissed Dorian he's now a druggie.

Someone obviously hit a nerve. I always thought of this board as one of the few without (or with very few) agendas and I would really like to keep thinking of it that way. I feel like there has been an influx of young emotional posters in the recent past.

 

[Zomb131]

Someone obviously hit a nerve. I always thought of this board as one of the few without (or with very few) agendas and I would really like to keep thinking of it that way. I feel like there has been an influx of young emotional posters in the recent past.

LOL! You must be new and blind.

No, the emotional posters are the members with 1000+ posts if you haven't noticed.

 

[BULK_CITY]

Don't know why everyone has to put others down for saying what they believe... it's just their opinions.

I like and respect both. They both provide a lot of content and a lot of stuff for me to think about.

Best way to go about it is to listen, decide for yourself what you think is best, then try a bunch of things out until you figure out what you like and works best for your body.

It's unnecessary to be mean and negative. It's supposed to be a fun journey.

 

[Feelthetear]

Don't know why everyone has to put others down for saying what they believe... it's just their opinions.

I like and respect both. They both provide a lot of content and a lot of stuff for me to think about.

Best way to go about it is to listen, decide for yourself what you think is best, then try a bunch of things out until you figure out what you like and works best for your body.

It's unnecessary to be mean and negative. It's supposed to be a fun journey.

Completely agree.Good post.

 

[Mr OZ]

Funny how many in this thread are now doubting Layne's natural status. He has always been thought of as "very obviously natural" here before.

But because he dissed Dorian he's now a druggie.

taking grams of steroids and looking like a bum hair next to Layne must be hard for some of the posters here (some, not all)

does anyone really know how the disagreement even started? i think johnjuan asked it many pages ago

 

[CDJack]

When someone says/writes something, then they should be prepared to hear/read sides that don't agree with theirs. I am not "dog piling" him, I simply stated that what he said is, in fact, not true. There ARE people who can attend a "prestigious" school, not attend class, and still get A's in their classes. Are they few and far between, yes, but they are still there. Research not biased? Come on! Like I said, they teach you in college how to skew results!

Did u read what I wrote? I never said some people can't do that...NEVER. Go read my post again. In fact, that's exactly what I said, that some people are super bright and can kick ass at the hardest schools, but they are very rare. My post was in response to someone saying everyone can get As if they work hard, which is simply not true. Go to a hard enough school and study your ass off and you my still end up with a bad grade. It's that competitive.

You completely misunderstood the point my post and what I was saying, so please don't make these claims until you read a little more carefully. You are quick to jump on me like everyone else.

 

[CDJack]

It's posts like this that have gotten CDJack all the flack he's getting.

Really? because i know more bikini girls that i'd say the majority of this board, and MANY of them have been told by judges they are too hard. Why don't you please tell me how this post gets me flack? If you think bikini girls need to be taking any drugs, you're insane. Just because some do, doesn't mean it's necessary at all. And many times, girls have been placing worse when they start using AAS...I know several of them who have been unable to turn pro bc they have too hard of a look. You have these "gurus" putting girls on all sorts of drugs when all they need is a good diet and hard training, and the drugs make them place worse than they otherwise would have. I am close with many of the top national competitors and a number of pros as well, and being too hard and muscular is a big issue, form the judges' mouth.

I ask you again, what is NOT CORRECT about my post?

 

[jaltb4k]

Did u read what I wrote? I never said some people can't do that...NEVER. Go read my post again. In fact, that's exactly what I said, that some people are super bright and can kick ass at the hardest schools, but they are very rare. My post was in response to someone saying everyone can get As if they work hard, which is simply not true. Go to a hard enough school and study your ass off and you my still end up with a bad grade. It's that competitive.

You completely misunderstood the point my post and what I was saying, so please don't make these claims until you read a little more carefully. You are quick to jump on me like everyone else.

just to clarify.....cdjack...is it your opinion that a natural bodybuilder that is a "researcher" has more credibility in the world of muscle building than a 6x mr olympia?

 

[CDJack]

just to clarify.....cdjack...is it your opinion that a natural bodybuilder that is a "researcher" has more credibility in the world of muscle building than a 6x mr olympia?

No, and i never said that. Everyone is taking everything out of context and forgetting what was actually said. Like i've said multiple times, go read my posts. I just have a problem with using 6x Mr. O as a qualification for your knowledge.

And btw, credibility has nothing to do with knowledge. Plenty of coaches/trainers/"experts" who have credibility because of their own placing/pro status who are really not very knowledgeable. Again, as I said many times, they aren't pro because they know so much, they're pro (or Mr. O) because of genetics.

 

[jaltb4k]

No, and i never said that. Everyone is taking everything out of context and forgetting what was actually said. Like i've said multiple times, go read my posts. I just have a problem with using 6x Mr. O as a qualification for your knowledge.

And btw, credibility has nothing to do with knowledge. Plenty of coaches/trainers/"experts" who have credibility because of their own placing/pro status who are really not very knowledgeable. Again, as I said many times, they aren't pro because they know so much, they're pro (or Mr. O) because of genetics.

i guess this is where we differ....someone who as actually done what he is preaching is credible and proven knowledgable. while someone that preaches based off what they read in a book or in school without actual first hand exerience is far less credible and knowledgeable.

IMHO

 

[Kaladryn]

Funny how many in this thread are now doubting Layne's natural status. He has always been thought of as "very obviously natural" here before.

But because he dissed Dorian he's now a druggie.

I'd think this board especially would prove that there is no such thing as "obviously natural," most of the people taking 2g+ look like they should be natural to me.

Really? because i know more bikini girls that i'd say the majority of this board, and MANY of them have been told by judges they are too hard. Why don't you please tell me how this post gets me flack? If you think bikini girls need to be taking any drugs, you're insane. Just because some do, doesn't mean it's necessary at all. And many times, girls have been placing worse when they start using AAS...I know several of them who have been unable to turn pro bc they have too hard of a look. You have these "gurus" putting girls on all sorts of drugs when all they need is a good diet and hard training, and the drugs make them place worse than they otherwise would have. I am close with many of the top national competitors and a number of pros as well, and being too hard and muscular is a big issue, form the judges' mouth.

I ask you again, what is NOT CORRECT about my post?

Yea i am sure it's a fantastic idea for bikini...lmao if you compete in bikini and need proviron, you're pathetic and stupid. The judges don't want a hard look at all, and proviron is completely the wrong approach. It would make your placing WORSE, especially with long term use and changes to your face. Thanks though.

Because you don't know "Jack" about what you're talking about, but you state it as if it's some kind of universal truth that can't be denied. You have no idea what one person needs or doesn't need. You have no idea how hard it is for some women to get that lean, you have no idea what it's like to deal with super high estrogen levels you can't control. You say it would make their placing worse and change their face? That depends on so many things, how many have you worked with, known their exact cycles, known exactly how they changed? Some women lose all the fat in their face and look very masculine and STILL have a lot of fat on their bodies, some maintain facial fat even while getting super lean, etc, etc. You just talk out your asshole and it stinks like shit.

 

[CDJack]

i guess this is where we differ....someone who as actually done what he is preaching is credible and proven knowledgable. while someone that preaches based off what they read in a book or in school without actual first hand exerience is far less credible and knowledgeable.

IMHO

Fair enough, you can have your opinion. It is belief like that which lets new IFBB pros make a living. No one cares about your amazing knowledge when you are amateur, but boom turn pro and you are selling you advice to the world, all of a sudden an expert. That's just how i see it. Success in bodybuilding has little to do with knowledge and lots to do with genetics, consistency, and hard work. If you have the right people in your corner, you're golden. As I said before, i've had dinner with and spoken to more than a handful of pros, and only a couple were bright and knew why they did everything they did and why it worked. The rest just listened to someone else and honestly were not particularly bright people. Not someone I would pay to advise me on drugs or diet, that's for sure. I'd much rather pay someone like shelby or layne who have proven they are smart and know the science, not just standing up on some IFBB Pro sign.

 

[CDJack]

I'd think this board especially would prove that there is no such thing as "obviously natural," most of the people taking 2g+ look like they should be natural to me.





Because you don't know "Jack" about what you're talking about, but you state it as if it's some kind of universal truth that can't be denied. You have no idea what one person needs or doesn't need. You have no idea how hard it is for some women to get that lean, you have no idea what it's like to deal with super high estrogen levels you can't control. You say it would make their placing worse and change their face? That depends on so many things, how many have you worked with, known their exact cycles, known exactly how they changed? Some women lose all the fat in their face and look very masculine and STILL have a lot of fat on their bodies, some maintain facial fat even while getting super lean, etc, etc. You just talk out your asshole and it stinks like shit.

Girls in bikini aren't that lean, and if they are, they suffer in placing because of it. I know two girls at the olympia this year who were told their abs were too much and there's little they could do, because if they add fat to their abs, their butts get flabbier. How is this me talking out my ass? Do you actually advise pros? I think probably not many because most are on bombshell or some other team

btw, you do realize some girls are lean enough to compete in bikini who don't even try to diet right? Sure some girls may benefit from a tiny tiny bit of var to help build up their glutes, but that's about it. A good friend of mine turned pro with literally almost no upper body muscle and had just started lifting weights.

 

[sloh]

Everyone's entitled to their own opinions but I don't see why it's so unbelievable layne is natural. He's 5'10.5 and 190 on stage, and to add to that he has a big bone structure as well. I also think the pics posted of him earlier in the thread were in very favorable lighting that might make him look bigger than he actually is. Here's a pic of him 1 week out from stepping on stage from his facebook in 2010 (IFPA Cape Cod). Believable..I'd say.

**broken link removed**

And I don't think Layne is completely trashing HIT like some of you are saying he's doing to Dorian. He's just saying that while HIT may work, in his opinion there are better training methods out there and he likes to back it up with science. On top of that, someone mentioned earlier that he talks poorly about those who use steroids. I've never once witnessed him post something negative about those who use AAS and I've followed him quite extensively on the boards. He trains regularly with Ben Pakulski and they are pretty good friends and Ben obviously is not natural.

 

[CDJack]

Everyone's entitled to their own opinions but I don't see why it's so unbelievable layne is natural. He's 5'10.5 and 190 on stage, and to add to that he has a big bone structure as well. I also think the pics posted of him earlier in the thread were in very favorable lighting that might make him look bigger than he actually is. Here's a pic of him 1 week out from stepping on stage from his facebook in 2010 (IFPA Cape Cod). Believable..I'd say.

**broken link removed**

And I don't think Layne is completely trashing HIT like some of you are saying he's doing to Dorian. He's just saying that while HIT may work, in his opinion there are better training methods out there and he likes to back it up with science. On top of that, someone mentioned earlier that he talks poorly about those who use steroids. I've never once witnessed him post something negative about those who use AAS. He trains regularly with Ben Pakulski and they are pretty good friends and Ben obviously is not natural.

THANK YOU!!! YES. Layne is generally very respectful and tact in his interactions unless someone gets under his skin badly. Maybe he was an ass when he was younger, but I dont see it often nowadays. And I also dont see him talk badly about gear users. In fact, he said he has nothing against it, he just has chosen a different path.

 

[jaltb4k]

Fair enough, you can have your opinion. It is belief like that which lets new IFBB pros make a living. No one cares about your amazing knowledge when you are amateur, but boom turn pro and you are selling you advice to the world, all of a sudden an expert. That's just how i see it. Success in bodybuilding has little to do with knowledge and lots to do with genetics, consistency, and hard work. If you have the right people in your corner, you're golden. As I said before, i've had dinner with and spoken to more than a handful of pros, and only a couple were bright and knew why they did everything they did and why it worked. The rest just listened to someone else and honestly were not particularly bright people. Not someone I would pay to advise me on drugs or diet, that's for sure. I'd much rather pay someone like shelby or layne who have proven they are smart and know the science, not just standing up on some IFBB Pro sign.

i would hardly consider yates a guy that "stands" on his pro sign. in fact,dorian is obviously pretty damned sharp. its my opinion that dorian is highly intellegent AND pro genetics. shelby and layne are without question top of their game....but to be honest neither of them are dorian yates

 

[CDJack]

i would hardly consider yates a guy that "stands" on his pro sign. in fact,dorian is obviously pretty damned sharp. its my opinion that dorian is highly intellegent AND pro genetics. shelby and layne are without question top of their game....but to be honest neither of them are dorian yates

Well standing on his pro sign is exactly what he did in that twitter argument, and that's exactly what this whole thread was about wasn't it?

I have no idea how smart dorian is and I dont know how you would know either...is he a friend of yours? Does he have qualifications that would indicate his level of knowledge? I don't know...

 

[jaltb4k]

well

Well standing on his pro sign is exactly what he did in that twitter argument, and that's exactly what this whole thread was about wasn't it?

I have no idea how smart dorian is and I dont know how you would know either...is he a friend of yours? Does he have qualifications that would indicate his level of knowledge? I don't know...

if you really want to know..i encourage you to watch some of his interviews. if you are intellegint in any way whatsoever you can very quickly pick up that not only does he know his shit,but he is very intellegent. if your half as bright as you think you are....watch some of his interviews and youll understand what im talking about. honestly until then arnt you just assuming you know his level of intelect base off him having a "pro" sign?

 

[CDJack]

if you really want to know..i encourage you to watch some of his interviews. if you are intellegint in any way whatsoever you can very quickly pick up that not only does he know his shit,but he is very intellegent. if your half as bright as you think you are....watch some of his interviews and youll understand what im talking about. honestly until then arnt you just assuming you know his level of intelect base off him having a "pro" sign?

No, actually i am not making any assumptions about his intellect, which i just said in the post above this. Did u read it? I said I DONT KNOW. All i know is that saying you are 6x Mr. O IS NOT A CREDENTIAL for why HIT IS THE BEST. THAT IS WHAT THIS ENTIRE THREAD IS ABOUT, SO HOW ABOUT WE KEEP IT ON THAT.