Let's talk Increlex?

[ALLEX]

Sure you have, but until someone tells you exactly what you want to hear, you will continue repeating yourswelf. Maybe this will help..."Increlex is AMAZING...better than steroids...better than anything...it is the "game-changer"...it will add 20-30 lbs of genuine muscle fiber in 6 months...because IGF-1 is THAT amazing!"

Let me share a personal experience.

Like most of us, I've had my share of erection/libido problems in the past. In between cycles, high estrogen, you get the point...

So, I happen to like cialis. It helps, it works for the whole weekend, etc...

In 2005, if I'm not mistaken, I put my hands on a batch of generic cialis from India, they were pink, hexagonal tabs, strangely dosed at 50mg per tab.

I've never in my life felt like this, not even when I was a teenager.

Those pills were so strong and so effective that I had to break them in 4, which would yield 12.5mg of tadalafil per serving. Each serving would keep me going at will for a full 3 days, with no nose stuffing, no sinus problems, no headaches, no sides at all. I could start a session with my lady at 10pm and go until the sunrise.

I believe I got 25 of them, which lasted an year or so...

Since they were gone, I've used all brands of tadalafil, including Cialis brand at 20mg and nothing has come close to those strange looking pink pills that I wasn't able to find again. And I get stuffy nose even with the original Cialis brand.

When I mention this to some close friends I hear all kinds of theories. Placebo effect, you were in better shape back then, you were just more attracted to your girl, etc...

When a man wakes up in the morning, he knows how sexually active he is. We all know... I was more interested in sex than when I was 16 years old.

So, when we close our ears to these IGF testimonies, we're telling these people that they are crazy, that it was some placebo effect. But it's not just 1 or 2 guys. There are dozens, or hundreds of guys out there saying they took a drug that makes everything else seem weak.

Shouldn't our attitude be "what was in those vials" instead of "those people are crazy, let's move on"? Or do some of you think you've been around for too long and have seen everything?

 

[zaosha]

So, when we close our ears to these IGF testimonies, we're telling these people that they are crazy, that it was some placebo effect. But it's not just 1 or 2 guys. There are dozens, or hundreds of guys out there saying they took a drug that makes everything else seem weak.

Shouldn't our attitude be "what was in those vials" instead of "those people are crazy, let's move on"? Or do some of you think you've been around for too long and have seen everything?

The problem is your are talking about a drug - Increlex or true pharma grade IGF - which is so expensive and esoteric that an exceptionally small number of people have used it. Also, a secondary issue is that even those few who claimed to use it rarely claim it was inarguably Increlex or a similar product. It was typically just vials of lyophilized powder from some guy like all the other peptides.

So, you have an entirely insufficient data set even if you choose to believe every anonymous internet jackass who has ever claimed this crap was amazeballs.

On the other hand, if we turn to the clinical data, Increlex is shit. It is only used to treat ISSS (idiopathic short stature syndrome) when GH fails to stimulate systemic IGF levels at the liver. It is inferior to GH in people who have normal hepatic IGF conversion. There are plenty of wealthy people out there treating their kids with GH - if Increlex worked better they would use it. Instead, it is only prescribed when GH won't work and the outcomes are inferior. Let me repeat this once more, it is inferior to GH. Clinical trials have demonstrated this.

Autocrine/paracrine growth factors are more important for muscle growth than systemic levels. This isn't even a serious debate. GH boosts local growth factor production and injecting IGF - of any type - does not.

The human research says this is shit. The biochemistry says this is shit. The fact that a peptide cheaper and easier to produce than GH hasn't even made a fucking dent in GH sales says this is shit.

There are no magic bullets other than being born with great genetics. I wish there were.

 

[marshallmadman]

One thing to debate in this topic is the dosage of the product. Increlex comes in a 40mg vial. That is the equivalent to 40 vials of the research companies "better" product. I'm not sold on the idea that LR3 is superior to a product that is virtually identical to the bodies own produced IGF-1.

I have seen dosages of 2-4mg thrown around in this thread. I don't know of anyone that has done 2-4 full bottles of LR3 for any period of time to report the results. It seems somewhat cost prohibitive, no?

 

[ALLEX]

This is funny.

A whole bunch of guys sent me PMs saying that they know top competitors or pros who take Increlex or some other form of human grade IGF and the results are nothing short of amazing.

So I ask myself why aren't these people coming to this thread and talking about this? Are they afraid of getting bashed or are they hoping to find a source and getting an edge over everyone else?

I was almost convinced that this is just some sort of legendary "philosopher's stone" and now more and more people will say such a thing is real.

You guys should come and talk.

By the way, those of you who have the cash and some relatives in Israel should just buy the damn thing. I thought it was around 1500 bucks for 10mg, but it's actually 40mg, right? Not that expensive...

 

[E.J.]

This is funny.

A whole bunch of guys sent me PMs saying that they know top competitors or pros who take Increlex or some other form of human grade IGF and the results are nothing short of amazing.

So I ask myself why aren't these people coming to this thread and talking about this? Are they afraid of getting bashed or are they hoping to find a source and getting an edge over everyone else?

I was almost convinced that this is just some sort of legendary "philosopher's stone" and now more and more people will say such a thing is real.

You guys should come and talk.

By the way, those of you who have the cash and some relatives in Israel should just buy the damn thing. I thought it was around 1500 bucks for 10mg, but it's actually 40mg, right? Not that expensive...

If a legit sponsor could get it here for 1500$ a month I'd come off gh and give it shot just to experiment. I've asked a few sponsors and nobody is interested.

 

[Cerberus777]

My thinking is if it were that special someone would be selling it, it wouldn't be just for select pro bodybuilders. IF it was that good, and gray area legal and could make $1000 per person per month.. Its not hard to send a sample or amino structure to China and have something duplicated. Or change a structure slightly. This is how prohormones are on the market. And how diffrent types of extacy are made gray market.

 

[superbigd]

I disagree.......no way you ever get a pro card. You are a bit delusional. Here is a picture from the Nationals.

**broken link removed**

Man this thread got so childish so quickly...quite a shame for a thread like this that had the possibility of being really informational. But I have to ask Phil - did you just stalk and take the time to find a picture of JVA just to make a point, and then on top of that post it without his consent. That to me is extremely unprofessional and downright weird of a business owner who's trying to represent his business best interest. Anyone who at first was thinking of the possibility of purchasing your igf has now surely been steered in a different direction.

Oh and I still think JVA looks better than 98% of the population and most the people on here so in that sense I do want to hear is input and I'm sure others do as we'll

 

[Mike Arnold]

Let me share a personal experience.

Like most of us, I've had my share of erection/libido problems in the past. In between cycles, high estrogen, you get the point...

So, I happen to like cialis. It helps, it works for the whole weekend, etc...

In 2005, if I'm not mistaken, I put my hands on a batch of generic cialis from India, they were pink, hexagonal tabs, strangely dosed at 50mg per tab.

I've never in my life felt like this, not even when I was a teenager.

Those pills were so strong and so effective that I had to break them in 4, which would yield 12.5mg of tadalafil per serving. Each serving would keep me going at will for a full 3 days, with no nose stuffing, no sinus problems, no headaches, no sides at all. I could start a session with my lady at 10pm and go until the sunrise.

I believe I got 25 of them, which lasted an year or so...

Since they were gone, I've used all brands of tadalafil, including Cialis brand at 20mg and nothing has come close to those strange looking pink pills that I wasn't able to find again. And I get stuffy nose even with the original Cialis brand.

When I mention this to some close friends I hear all kinds of theories. Placebo effect, you were in better shape back then, you were just more attracted to your girl, etc...

When a man wakes up in the morning, he knows how sexually active he is. We all know... I was more interested in sex than when I was 16 years old.

So, when we close our ears to these IGF testimonies, we're telling these people that they are crazy, that it was some placebo effect. But it's not just 1 or 2 guys. There are dozens, or hundreds of guys out there saying they took a drug that makes everything else seem weak.

Shouldn't our attitude be "what was in those vials" instead of "those people are crazy, let's move on"? Or do some of you think you've been around for too long and have seen everything?

What you'e not realizing, as another poster said, is we ALREADY know how well IGF-1 works...and not just through anecdotal evidence, but through clinical research. IGF-1 has been extensively researched in the medical community, with its degree of effectiveness clearly demonstrated. It is not a super drug. You've also already been provided with plausible explanations for these "rumors". We have heard the same thing about MANY different drugs over the years...and none of the claims ever lined up with real-world results.

Remember back in the 90's, before tren was readily available to the typical steroid user? I remember guys claiming that Parabolan was so strong, that advanced steroid users were adding 20-25 lbs of muscle from a single bottle. Yeah, r-i-i-i-i-i-ght. Well, we all know better now...because NO ONE is gaining 25 lbs of muscle from a gram of tren.

Guess what? It's no different with Increlex. It's almost like you're forgetting what Increlex is, as if it is something different than IGF-1. Increlex is nothing but IGF-1...period...and the science has clearly demonstrated what IGF-1 is capable of...and it certainly isn't superior to steroids for muscle building...not even close. You have been provided with logical explanations for every single angle of this argument in this thread, yet despite this, you still want to put more stock in an unsubstaniated rumor with a mountain of evidence against it.

Now, there might be some degree of plausibility to your argument if we were talking about a drug which was relatively uknown, but we are talking about IGF-1 here...IGF-1! It has been around for decades now--we know exactly what it is and what it does. Remember, this is a prescription drug, which means it has been subjected to extensive human testing. If the medical community does not and has never considered IGF-1 a muscle building phenom, why are you, especially considering the fact that the pharmaceutical industry is actively looking for muscle building drugs which lack an androgenic component?

 

[Mike Arnold]

This is funny.

A whole bunch of guys sent me PMs saying that they know top competitors or pros who take Increlex or some other form of human grade IGF and the results are nothing short of amazing.

So I ask myself why aren't these people coming to this thread and talking about this? Are they afraid of getting bashed or are they hoping to find a source and getting an edge over everyone else?

I was almost convinced that this is just some sort of legendary "philosopher's stone" and now more and more people will say such a thing is real.

You guys should come and talk.

By the way, those of you who have the cash and some relatives in Israel should just buy the damn thing. I thought it was around 1500 bucks for 10mg, but it's actually 40mg, right? Not that expensive...

Define amazing? Does amazing mean...

"better than steroids?" Or, as is MUCH more likely..."It helped me add 5-7 lbs of muscle tissue after I had already maxed out with steroids".

To me, adding even 5 lbs of muscle tissue after one has nearly maxed out with AAS, is "amazing".

It's like everyone who says that GH & inuslin is the combo that "makes freaks". What does that mean? I will tell you what it does NOT mean first. It does not mean "It works better than steroids"...or "They build more muscle than steroids". What it means is that GH and insulin can add another 20 lbs of muscle to a physique beyond what steroids can do alone (I am generalizing here). Isn't a 20 lb muscle gain freakin' amazing? Hell yes it is, especially after one has already reached pro-size with steroids.

So, if someone starts using IGF-1 and immediately behins to make gains again, what are they going to say? You guessed it..."It is amazing". People say the same thing about GH & insulin...and rightfully so...because any drug or combo of drugs which can add even 10 lbs of muscle beyond what steroids can add alone, IS amazing. Anything beyond that is incredible and potentially a "game changer". Look what people are saying about Dennis Wolf right now---that he could be Mr Olympia with 10-20 more pounds of muscle. For him, 10-20 lbs could be the "gamer changer".

Now, as amazing as a 10-20 lbs gain in muscle tissue, is, it PALES in comparison to the power of steroids, which has added over 100 lbs of muscle in MANY BB'rs. Anyone that claims IGF-1 is more powerfull than that is either extremely ignorant or a liar. You could take a natural BB'r and have him use as much IGF-1 as you want, yet he would NEVER, EVER become as large as he could with steroids.

So, these terms you're throwing around, posting that BB'rs are privately posting how "amazing" IGF-1 is, need to DEFINE mazing. Like I said, we already know what IGF-1 is and what it is capable of doing. Put things in perspective, my man. The reason none of those people who pm'd you are posting in this thread is because they can't defend their claims. IGF-1 is good, but it does NOT approach steroids in terms of total muscle gain. It is an ancillary to steroids use. It will help make a physique better, but it is not the bread & butter.

I should also mention that all of the people that PM'd you are saying they "know" of a national-level or pro BB'r who uses Increlex. What was that word...they "KNOW" of. Again, heresay. I am not saying they don't, but where are all the people posting that ARE using Increlex. This is "pro" muscle after all, right? Personally, I don't know a single pro using Increlex...and if anyone tells you all the pros are using Increlex, just laugh and walk away. My guess is that only a very small minority have or are using it. Tons of pros from the 90's through today built their size with little to no IGF-1.

So, get off the magic pill bus and put IGF-1 in its proper place as a "supplement" to steroid use. It's not the main course.

 

[Mike Arnold]

My thinking is if it were that special someone would be selling it, it wouldn't be just for select pro bodybuilders. IF it was that good, and gray area legal and could make $1000 per person per month.. Its not hard to send a sample or amino structure to China and have something duplicated. Or change a structure slightly. This is how prohormones are on the market. And how diffrent types of extacy are made gray market.

This logic has already been presented in this thread, my brother, more than once...and it fell on deaf ears. He's been told how easy it is to replicate IGF-1 and the profit companies would stand to make if the rumors were true, but it is not sinking in. I appreciate seeing someone else state the obvious, though. Thanks.

 

[Mike Arnold]

If a legit sponsor could get it here for 1500$ a month I'd come off gh and give it shot just to experiment. I've asked a few sponsors and nobody is interested.

error.

 

[GS]

Lot of what ifs.

 

[desibaba]

IGF-1/Increlex isnt a game changer like most people think it is. I personally think I was better off using more HGH than pinning myself with various peptides 5 times a day.

 

[E.J.]

error.

In that no sponsors carry it or it would be a mistake to trade it for my gh? Thanks.

 

[ALLEX]

Remember back in the 90's, before tren was readily available to the typical steroid user? I remember guys claiming that Parabolan was so strong, that advanced steroid users were adding 20-25 lbs of muscle from a single bottle. Yeah, r-i-i-i-i-i-ght. Well, we all know better now...because NO ONE is gaining 25 lbs of muscle from a gram of tren.

Good analogy...

 

[relentless4287]

Like marshall said never seen anyone dose lr3 at 2to4 mgs a day to find out. You cant say my results from lr3 are crap if your taking some little dose of 100mcg total a day. When the so called game chnger is used at 2 to 4mgs thats a huge difference.

 

[Green_Fjord]

By the way, those of you who have the cash and some relatives in Israel should just buy the damn thing. I thought it was around 1500 bucks for 10mg, but it's actually 40mg, right? Not that expensive...

It's not even that expensive in most Euro countries... the price for 40mg INCRELEX in pharmacies there is most of the time under €800 (more or less $1,000-$1,100). With a script, of course.

So being quite "cheap" (yes, it's all relative), if it was indeed that effective, much more people would use it, don't you think?

Yet, I see infinitely more guys using Lilly UMATROPE GH, which is paradoxically more expensive...

 

[Mike Arnold]

In that no sponsors carry it or it would be a mistake to trade it for my gh? Thanks.

I meant my post was an error. I accidentally quoted your post and then wasn't able to erase it, so I just typed "error".

 

[1234trew]

Like marshall said never seen anyone dose lr3 at 2to4 mgs a day to find out. You cant say my results from lr3 are crap if your taking some little dose of 100mcg total a day. When the so called game chnger is used at 2 to 4mgs thats a huge difference.

What would the effect be on blood sugar at 2 to 4mgs? If 100mcg causes some hypo feelings, what would a does of 20 to 40x this do?

 

[KillerStack]

Sort of an aside but I remember when King Kamali came
on here and predicted IGF-1 will KILL a lot of bodybuilders. Extremely
dangerous drug according to him. And as we know pros have the secret scoop.

Stay away kids.