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Bio-identical hormones (test, gh, insulin, igf)

bigzzz

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Are there people here that only use those to blast/cruise(TRT is obvious of course)?

I'm curious about this because @luki7788 stated that this will be the 'most healthy' way to blast. I get sides from pretty much everything besides test so this would be a solid option.

Please share your results/dosages etc.
 
Are there people here that only use those to blast/cruise(TRT is obvious of course)?

I'm curious about this because @luki7788 stated that this will be the 'most healthy' way to blast. I get sides from pretty much everything besides test so this would be a solid option.

Please share your results/dosages etc.
Yes

I found that when I stuck to biodentical I did way better on all my blood work.

Right now I’m prescribed 180mg test e a week and 120 deca a week(don’t forget that’s bio identical)..it is extremely noticeable and straight from the pharmacy.

I rarely do gh or igf1 anymore because I am sometimes in a position where eating isn’t going to happen..I went roughly 14 hours the other day without eating so I am kinda limited to metformin before bed
 
Are there people here that only use those to blast/cruise(TRT is obvious of course)?

I'm curious about this because @luki7788 stated that this will be the 'most healthy' way to blast. I get sides from pretty much everything besides test so this would be a solid option.

Please share your results/dosages etc.
It's exactly what I do. Maybe add tren or Winstrol or Var a few times a year. That's pretty much my entire protocol. T/GH/slin is the shit! I call it the Holy Synergy.
 
Yes

I found that when I stuck to biodentical I did way better on all my blood work.

Right now I’m prescribed 180mg test e a week and 120 deca a week(don’t forget that’s bio identical)..it is extremely noticeable and straight from the pharmacy.

I rarely do gh or igf1 anymore because I am sometimes in a position where eating isn’t going to happen..I went roughly 14 hours the other day without eating so I am kinda limited to metformin before bed
Deca isn't bio identical is it? Doesn't really matter since I get cloudy thoughts on that shit.

It's exactly what I do. Maybe add tren or Winstrol or Var a few times a year. That's pretty much my entire protocol. T/GH/slin is the shit! I call it the Holy Synergy.
Good to hear man! What dosages test/gh/slin are you mostly running?
 
Deca isn't bio identical is it? Doesn't really matter since I get cloudy thoughts on that shit.


Good to hear man! What dosages test/gh/slin are you mostly running?
It varies massively from nothing at all (except GH) for months at a time to a gram of T, 10iu GH daily, and slin as needed based on diet. HRT would be 100mg T/wk, 2iu GH, 2-5 units slin after meals and workouts. But that is nowhere close to set in stone and individuals will differ greatly. My sugar has been excellent lately so right now I'm just doing 400mg T/wk, 4iu GH daily with 500mg metformin, 1200 berberine, and 200 Synthetine daily.
 
Bio-identical in normal ranges are most likely the healthiest way to go as i see it. Not that i always do what is the most healthiest.
 
Are there people here that only use those to blast/cruise(TRT is obvious of course)?

I'm curious about this because @luki7788 stated that this will be the 'most healthy' way to blast. I get sides from pretty much everything besides test so this would be a solid option.

Please share your results/dosages etc.
Well, your first mistake is listening to anything that luki says with respect to health.

The notion that "bio-identical" hormones are healthier than their synthetic counterparts is patently false.

Fundamentally, if you or I had any interest in respecting nature's tightly regulated endocrine system with respect to our health we wouldn't insult that regulatory system (e.g., IGF-I declines with age probably because it promotes lifespan, that is, we need to stop growing after the pubertal growth spurt, or we'll die from diseases like cancers more quickly). Note that all of these drugs increase IGF-I (testosterone, rhGH, rhI, rhIGF-I).

Of course Test, GH, slin, IGF-I, are all highly potent anabolic agents, because growth & metabolism are some of their primary evolutionary functions. Testosterone is anabolic particularly in skeletal muscle & sex organs; GH (of which there are 2 primary endogenous isoforms in adult men, 20K & 22K -GH, while in isolation it acts generally as a catabolic or energy-releasing compound, in vivo it serves complementary functions a la IGF-I that include longitudinal & total body growth, with IGF-I existing in its various forms (not many of which are free or unbound IGF-I, but rather exist in various complexes with binding proteins & the ALS, that variously both stimulate and inhibit uptake into certain tissues).

And yet, pharmacopeia derives fantastic profits, not to mind people that use modified forms of these drugs derive fantastic benefits from, chemical modifications to these hormones that exist endogenously.

To tease out a bit the absurdity of the "bio-identical" dogma among many bros, let's look at the case of "slin" (injectable recombinant human insulin preparations). Virtually everybody seems to think "slin" is bioidentical, but only Regular Human Insulin preparations (synonymous with neutral or soluble insulin) can be fairly described as "bio-identical" with respect to chemical structure, but actually it is not "bio-identical" in its biological effects because neither its pharmacokinetics nor pharmacokinetics are exactly the same as pancreatically-secreted insulin, because injections alter its time-course in blood, affect its distribution, etc. The broader universe of "slin," i.e., rhI preparations, are modified forms of regular insulin; modified to derive greater efficacy and provide for use cases where regular human insulin are inappropriate (e.g., stably-controlled blood glucose with a once-daily injection, as with Insulin glargine or Lantus [the glargine modification reduces insulin's solubility in extracellular fluid, delaying absorption into the systemic circulation]).

Injectable testosterone formulations provide prodrugs to testosterone, only testosterone aqueous suspensions come close to being arguably "bio-identical" (but is actually not even that close, because of its bimodal pharmacokinetics due to distinct pharmacokinetic profiles inherent to the dissolution from residual solid material); RhGH provides the more anabolic of the primary GH isoforms, and not the other, or third in the case of pregnant women (there is also a placentally-secreted GH isoform); RhIGF-I is bound up by various binary, ternary, IGFBP complexes, etc, altering its biological effects (its non-naturally occurring LR3 analogue is a more anabolically potent form, but not superior per se).

I could go on... Anyway, I am really looking forward to the ruffled responses to things that I never said.
 
Well, your first mistake is listening to anything that luki says with respect to health.

The notion that "bio-identical" hormones are healthier than their synthetic counterparts is patently false.

Fundamentally, if you or I had any interest in respecting nature's tightly regulated endocrine system with respect to our health we wouldn't insult that regulatory system (e.g., IGF-I declines with age probably because it promotes lifespan, that is, we need to stop growing after the pubertal growth spurt, or we'll die from diseases like cancers more quickly). Note that all of these drugs increase IGF-I (testosterone, rhGH, rhI, rhIGF-I).

Of course Test, GH, slin, IGF-I, are all highly potent anabolic agents, because growth & metabolism are some of their primary evolutionary functions. Testosterone is anabolic particularly in skeletal muscle & sex organs; GH (of which there are 2 primary endogenous isoforms in adult men, 20K & 22K -GH, while in isolation it acts generally as a catabolic or energy-releasing compound, in vivo it serves complementary functions a la IGF-I that include longitudinal & total body growth, with IGF-I existing in its various forms (not many of which are free or unbound IGF-I, but rather exist in various complexes with binding proteins & the ALS, that variously both stimulate and inhibit uptake into certain tissues).

And yet, pharmacopeia derives fantastic profits, not to mind people that use modified forms of these drugs derive fantastic benefits from, chemical modifications to these hormones that exist endogenously.

To tease out a bit the absurdity of the "bio-identical" dogma among many bros, let's look at the case of "slin" (injectable recombinant human insulin preparations). Virtually everybody seems to think "slin" is bioidentical, but only Regular Human Insulin preparations (synonymous with neutral or soluble insulin) can be fairly described as "bio-identical" with respect to chemical structure, but actually it is not "bio-identical" in its biological effects because neither its pharmacokinetics nor pharmacokinetics are exactly the same as pancreatically-secreted insulin, because injections alter its time-course in blood, affect its distribution, etc. The broader universe of "slin," i.e., rhI preparations, are modified forms of regular insulin; modified to derive greater efficacy and provide for use cases where regular human insulin are inappropriate (e.g., stably-controlled blood glucose with a once-daily injection, as with Insulin glargine or Lantus [the glargine modification reduces insulin's solubility in extracellular fluid, delaying absorption into the systemic circulation]).

Injectable testosterone formulations provide prodrugs to testosterone, only testosterone aqueous suspensions come close to being arguably "bio-identical" (but is actually not even that close, because of its bimodal pharmacokinetics due to distinct pharmacokinetic profiles inherent to the dissolution from residual solid material); RhGH provides the more anabolic of the primary GH isoforms, and not the other, or third in the case of pregnant women (there is also a placentally-secreted GH isoform); RhIGF-I is bound up by various binary, ternary, IGFBP complexes, etc, altering its biological effects (its non-naturally occurring LR3 analogue is a more anabolically potent form, but not superior per se).

I could go on... Anyway, I am really looking forward to the ruffled responses to things that I never said.
No need for a cheap shot, especially to someone who contributes to this forum massively. The man has helped lots of people on here with real world bodybuilding info including myself even via PM's for free.
 
@Type-IIx he just resents me since he offered me paid access to his research platform via PM. I rejected his offer because with all due respect but I will not pay for information from a person who I do not even know what he looks like and has only theoretical knowledge and the lack of any evidence that would confirm this knowledge in practice

no hate, just my honest opinion
 
Well I'll be damned. I have never heard this before. See? Almost 20 years on this board and I'm still learning something new every now and then.
 
Well I'll be damned. I have never heard this before. See? Almost 20 years on this board and I'm still learning something new every now and then.
I didn’t know it until my doctor told me..I thought he was just trying to get me on more shit so I researched it..vigorous Steve has about the only videos on it but there is a lot of written information
 
@Type-IIx he just resents me since he offered me paid access to his research platform via PM. I rejected his offer because with all due respect but I will not pay for information from a person who I do not even know what he looks like and has only theoretical knowledge and the lack of any evidence that would confirm this knowledge in practice

no hate, just my honest opinion
I assure you that I hold no grudge for what you perceive as a significant slight. It wasn't significant, though. Your basic template for responding to me with basic irreverence and what has become your signature, "no hate, just..." certainly does makes you look like the passive-aggressive little shit that lives within your large but noncompetitive frame from where I sit, though.
 
Well I'll be damned. I have never heard this before. See? Almost 20 years on this board and I'm still learning something new every now and then.
TBF, it's only bioidentical in up to 5 ng/mL concentrations in pregnant women (it is analogous to the placentally-secreted GH isoform). It's stimulated in men only by hCG use. If its existence in some edge case in humans is sufficient argument for you to add it to your stack because "health," well, that'd be pretty silly.
 
Well, your first mistake is listening to anything that luki says with respect to health.

The notion that "bio-identical" hormones are healthier than their synthetic counterparts is patently false.

Fundamentally, if you or I had any interest in respecting nature's tightly regulated endocrine system with respect to our health we wouldn't insult that regulatory system (e.g., IGF-I declines with age probably because it promotes lifespan, that is, we need to stop growing after the pubertal growth spurt, or we'll die from diseases like cancers more quickly). Note that all of these drugs increase IGF-I (testosterone, rhGH, rhI, rhIGF-I).

Of course Test, GH, slin, IGF-I, are all highly potent anabolic agents, because growth & metabolism are some of their primary evolutionary functions. Testosterone is anabolic particularly in skeletal muscle & sex organs; GH (of which there are 2 primary endogenous isoforms in adult men, 20K & 22K -GH, while in isolation it acts generally as a catabolic or energy-releasing compound, in vivo it serves complementary functions a la IGF-I that include longitudinal & total body growth, with IGF-I existing in its various forms (not many of which are free or unbound IGF-I, but rather exist in various complexes with binding proteins & the ALS, that variously both stimulate and inhibit uptake into certain tissues).

And yet, pharmacopeia derives fantastic profits, not to mind people that use modified forms of these drugs derive fantastic benefits from, chemical modifications to these hormones that exist endogenously.

To tease out a bit the absurdity of the "bio-identical" dogma among many bros, let's look at the case of "slin" (injectable recombinant human insulin preparations). Virtually everybody seems to think "slin" is bioidentical, but only Regular Human Insulin preparations (synonymous with neutral or soluble insulin) can be fairly described as "bio-identical" with respect to chemical structure, but actually it is not "bio-identical" in its biological effects because neither its pharmacokinetics nor pharmacokinetics are exactly the same as pancreatically-secreted insulin, because injections alter its time-course in blood, affect its distribution, etc. The broader universe of "slin," i.e., rhI preparations, are modified forms of regular insulin; modified to derive greater efficacy and provide for use cases where regular human insulin are inappropriate (e.g., stably-controlled blood glucose with a once-daily injection, as with Insulin glargine or Lantus [the glargine modification reduces insulin's solubility in extracellular fluid, delaying absorption into the systemic circulation]).

Injectable testosterone formulations provide prodrugs to testosterone, only testosterone aqueous suspensions come close to being arguably "bio-identical" (but is actually not even that close, because of its bimodal pharmacokinetics due to distinct pharmacokinetic profiles inherent to the dissolution from residual solid material); RhGH provides the more anabolic of the primary GH isoforms, and not the other, or third in the case of pregnant women (there is also a placentally-secreted GH isoform); RhIGF-I is bound up by various binary, ternary, IGFBP complexes, etc, altering its biological effects (its non-naturally occurring LR3 analogue is a more anabolically potent form, but not superior per se).

I could go on... Anyway, I am really looking forward to the ruffled responses to things that I never said.
Curious to hear your opinion on the legitimacy of igf products other than actual increlex? I remember in 04 or so they became mainstream and we're popular. Then you started to hear that ug labs could not actually produce this product. Haven't really looked into it since then.
 

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