Androgen Receptor sensitivity

[emeric delczeg]

I'm curious. Based on your posts you seem to be a blast and cruiser for some time. Let me ask you a few questions.

How long have you been using AAS?
If you have been using for 5 years or more what were your blast doses over the past 2 years?
What have your blast doses been 5 years ago?
What have been your doses for your cruise doses the last 2 years?
What were your cruise doses the 5 years ago?
Do you think the gains you have made since escalating you blast/cruise doses have rewarded you with the mass expected?

My self was blasting and cruising for 6 years, from age 44 till age 50, my blast was 280mg per week for 8 weeks, and cruising 10mg per day for 8 week, I did this back and fort, I did experiment with 20mg per day for blast, I did this at age 68 at same time I started working out almost the same way as I did back when I was competing as a Pro, form the 20mg felt like when I used 280mg. I don`t do the 20mg now, only 6mg per day.

 

[LK3]

Because that’s just the truth. Androgen receptor sensitivity is NOT related to total t levels. I don’t know what else to tell you lol. There’s plenty of guy who’s total T aren’t anything crazy but get great results on lower dosages… and that’s why. Total T is just one piece of the picture and it’s honestly not a very important one. How you RESPOND to those levels in your body is much much more important for results.


I don’t think anyone is gonna debate that lower dosages can improve health, but this is a bodybuilding/steroids forum. Yes health issue mitigation should be something everyone is conscious of, but more gear is still going to yield more gains if all other factors are equated for.


You’re kind of falling for the fallacy here that just because something happens naturally means it’s good. Lots of health metrics decline as people age… that doesn’t mean we should keep them there. You said 100mg keeps you at 850ng/dL, which is a great spot to be in for health and longevity. Dropping lower isn’t going to benefit your health, but you do you…


Trust me I’ve seen it because he recommends it to everyone lol. Again, I don’t think you’re getting any level of benefit from dropping to 10mg a day but you do you! But I disagree it’s doing the “opposite” of hurting you. If you’re healthy on 100mg you’re healthy. It’s not always a “less is healthier” situation with testosterone.


Nothing. Literally all I said is that your anecdote is irrelevant to this conversation at hand in this thread because total T levels are irrelevant to androgen receptor sensitivity.

i got ya.
i agree for sure with what you say at the top.
i think also that ppl get wrapped up in paper ideas and or ideologies rather then voices of experience. experience i think has merit.

the basic idea of this started as someone asking how to make ar recptor more sensitive. thats a hard thing to prove in real world humans.
what the idea is is to be able to get more results from less gear.
do we agree on this?

i basically have done some form of blast cruise for the last 20 years.
i used to live on 1.5-2g gear. at some point i pushed it ran more then 6g, there were years were 3g or so was normal.
when i was doing that i just figured well i have shit genetics and dont respond well to gear.

yes you get more fake sort of results with more gear. when i say fake i mean swell which is water, creatine etc. thats not real muscle and drops as you drop the dose. so yes more drugs = bigger you but someone who dropped the gear and pushed the training and diet to make more real muscle then went back to heavier doses would probably get a better result then the same guy just pushing doses in the same time.

at some point i realized what i was doing was stupid and looked for better ways.
what im saying here was part of that.

to the debate of what may make receptors more sensitive. no one can really answer with truth. we would need a way to study an individual before and after. law and technology dont really provide that option.

often it seems that when we have more of a substance then the body can use it seems to upregulate. saying the receptor of whatever you like is constantly engaged or blocked with the active. so the body may compensate generating more receptors on the cell. trying to compensate for being perpetually occupied. MAY. stopping whatever drug or substance you are using to fill those receptors will mean that they are no longer blocked. the cell MAY once the drugs clear mantain the new number of recptors.

this isnt just with test or the ar.
cells are constantly changing or mutating due to the chemical environment we create.

maybe by pushing high doses for extended times then backing off we can take advantage of that.

i cant say for sure.
but i do try this with various drugs.
i cant tell you if it works or not.

what i can tell you is i now use doses of aas and get results that 10+ years ago i would say is bs.
not proof. one persons anecdotal experience.

 

[buck]

i got ya.
i agree for sure with what you say at the top.
i think also that ppl get wrapped up in paper ideas and or ideologies rather then voices of experience. experience i think has merit.

the basic idea of this started as someone asking how to make ar recptor more sensitive. thats a hard thing to prove in real world humans.
what the idea is is to be able to get more results from less gear.
do we agree on this?

i basically have done some form of blast cruise for the last 20 years.
i used to live on 1.5-2g gear. at some point i pushed it ran more then 6g, there were years were 3g or so was normal.
when i was doing that i just figured well i have shit genetics and dont respond well to gear.

yes you get more fake sort of results with more gear. when i say fake i mean swell which is water, creatine etc. thats not real muscle and drops as you drop the dose. so yes more drugs = bigger you but someone who dropped the gear and pushed the training and diet to make more real muscle then went back to heavier doses would probably get a better result then the same guy just pushing doses in the same time.

at some point i realized what i was doing was stupid and looked for better ways.
what im saying here was part of that.

to the debate of what may make receptors more sensitive. no one can really answer with truth. we would need a way to study an individual before and after. law and technology dont really provide that option.

often it seems that when we have more of a substance then the body can use it seems to upregulate. saying the receptor of whatever you like is constantly engaged or blocked with the active. so the body may compensate generating more receptors on the cell. trying to compensate for being perpetually occupied. MAY. stopping whatever drug or substance you are using to fill those receptors will mean that they are no longer blocked. the cell MAY once the drugs clear mantain the new number of recptors.

this isnt just with test or the ar.
cells are constantly changing or mutating due to the chemical environment we create.

maybe by pushing high doses for extended times then backing off we can take advantage of that.

i cant say for sure.
but i do try this with various drugs.
i cant tell you if it works or not.

what i can tell you is i now use doses of aas and get results that 10+ years ago i would say is bs.
not proof. one persons anecdotal experience.

And your diet/calories and training stayed the same all those years? Of did some of those factors change as well.

 

[showstopper83]

And your diet/calories and training stayed the same all those years? Of did some of those factors change as well.

I don't have this stuff broken down to the granular scientific level that some guys do, but i also think people outsmart themselves and over complicate shit.

Point blank, aas stimulate your CNS to lift more weights, and allow for better nitrogen retention/protein synthesis to flip more protein/calories into muscle than you otherwise could. In some cases, to burn more fat and/or prevent catabolism.

Pushing more gear means you gotta train more intensely, eat more when bulking and cut calories harder when dieting.

Just like any other DRUG or substance- be it rec drugs, alcohol, etc- you can only get so "high" from it before you either gotta keep upping the dose or take a break. A drug addict who gets clean for a couple months is gonna get much more loaded off a gram of dope than the addict using an eightball a day who just adds another gram to his usage.

I don't believe in time on = time off, but i do think if you come off for a few weeks completely, you cant possibly lose THAT much coming off for 4-6 weeks while esters clear, but i promise you the aas will hit you that much harder when you go back on.

And forget androgen receptors, there is also a matter of cortisol, myostatin, insulin sensitivity from pushing calories, etc.

Probably 7-10 lbs of what you "lose" that first month off is just glycogen, anyways.

The biggest problem is that we are all vain and that 4-6 weeks of looking deflated, less vascular and "fatter" while losing strength is a blow to the ego we don't want to deal with, even temporarily.

A guy i became friends with who claimed to be an IFBB pro heavyweight and former training partner of Ronnie Coleman who runs a cardiology practice in TX was extremely detailed in all his info, and swore by cycling base only compounds and coming off for at least 4 weeks. He claimed Coleman only ran about 3x 12 week cycles a year and never went much higher than 1g of a single compound at a time.

Some of you older guys in the know might know who im talking about, Craig Titus was a training partner and snitched on him long ago.

 

[aHarness]

How long have you been using AAS?
If you have been using for 5 years or more what were your blast doses over the past 2 years?
What have your blast doses been 5 years ago?
What have been your doses for your cruise doses the last 2 years?
What were your cruise doses the 5 years ago?
Do you think the gains you have made since escalating you blast/cruise doses have rewarded you with the mass expected?

I’ll be honest I don’t feel like typing out a ton of details so I’ll keep it brief, but I started on trt as my first introduction to PEDs. At first I just did time on time on trt with cycles.

Since then I have essentially taken the approach of slowly titrated total dosages and monitoring bloodwork over the years (though it also depends on the compound). I run amounts that allow me to progress while also keeping my bloodwork good, which I can still keep acceptable in the 1g+ range personally. I lower doses when life comes in the way/I know I won’t be able to maximize training or diet. I’ve had better result using this approach.

 

[aHarness]

Just like any other DRUG or substance- be it rec drugs, alcohol, etc- you can only get so "high" from it before you either gotta keep upping the dose or take a break. A drug addict who gets clean for a couple months is gonna get much more loaded off a gram of dope than the addict using an eightball a day who just adds another gram to his usage.

Why does everyone always think all drugs are equal? No, not every drug works that way. You don’t always just need more and more and more to achieve X result with every drug. These are hormones we are talking about here. If I inject 200mg test a week and it gives me X result, then assuming all other factors equal it will ALWAYS KEEP ME THERE. My body won’t just get used to it and eventually say I don’t want to respond to this anymore. The reason we push gear dosages is because we reach a plateau in our muscle building goals and have gotten all out of a certain amount that we can’t. It doesn’t “stop getting us high” to reference your example, we want a BIGGER high (more muscle than the current amount provides).

but i do think if you come off for a few weeks completely, you cant possibly lose THAT much coming off for 4-6 weeks while esters clear, but i promise you the aas will hit you that much harder when you go back on.

4-6 weeks? Come on. It’s still in your system… all you achieve doing that is taking a break from pinning.

 

[showstopper83]

Why does everyone always think all drugs are equal? No, not every drug works that way. You don’t always just need more and more and more to achieve X result with every drug. These are hormones we are talking about here. If I inject 200mg test a week and it gives me X result, then assuming all other factors equal it will ALWAYS KEEP ME THERE. My body won’t just get used to it and eventually say I don’t want to respond to this anymore. The reason we push gear dosages is because we reach a plateau in our muscle building goals and have gotten all out of a certain amount that we can’t. It doesn’t “stop getting us high” to reference your example, we want a BIGGER high (more muscle than the current amount provides).


4-6 weeks? Come on. It’s still in your system… all you achieve doing that is taking a break from pinning.

Depends on the ester. Base esters will all clear in a week, prop/ace probably 2. Then your "time off" begins.

But ya, cyp/enan you are looking at 4 weeks since the very last pin, and deca/eq 8 weeks.

This guy knew his shit and swore by running all base compounds hard for 8-10 weeks, coming off completely for 4 + PCT and running again.

Me? I have blasted for 2-3 years straight at a time for the same reasons you do. Nowadays, idgaf if i look like shit for a few weeks bc my chick doesn't care, so im more likely to actually exercise some patience.

But this last hiatus i took, i just got sick of pinning and the lifestyle and wanted to focus on my career. I doubt i will be taking any breaks for a long time now.

What I was sharing from the anonymous pro was just that, not my own preference or opinion.

 

[aHarness]

This guy knew his shit and swore by running all base compounds hard for 8-10 weeks, coming off completely for 4 + PCT and running again.

Well he’s pretty much blasting base compounds “hard” (your words) for 2/3+ of the year so yeah I’m sure it worked. I guess that’s one way to do it, not the approach I would take.

 

[buck]

I don't have this stuff broken down to the granular scientific level that some guys do, but i also think people outsmart themselves and over complicate shit.

Point blank, aas stimulate your CNS to lift more weights, and allow for better nitrogen retention/protein synthesis to flip more protein/calories into muscle than you otherwise could. In some cases, to burn more fat and/or prevent catabolism.

Pushing more gear means you gotta train more intensely, eat more when bulking and cut calories harder when dieting.

Just like any other DRUG or substance- be it rec drugs, alcohol, etc- you can only get so "high" from it before you either gotta keep upping the dose or take a break. A drug addict who gets clean for a couple months is gonna get much more loaded off a gram of dope than the addict using an eightball a day who just adds another gram to his usage.

I don't believe in time on = time off, but i do think if you come off for a few weeks completely, you cant possibly lose THAT much coming off for 4-6 weeks while esters clear, but i promise you the aas will hit you that much harder when you go back on.

And forget androgen receptors, there is also a matter of cortisol, myostatin, insulin sensitivity from pushing calories, etc.

Probably 7-10 lbs of what you "lose" that first month off is just glycogen, anyways.

The biggest problem is that we are all vain and that 4-6 weeks of looking deflated, less vascular and "fatter" while losing strength is a blow to the ego we don't want to deal with, even temporarily.

A guy i became friends with who claimed to be an IFBB pro heavyweight and former training partner of Ronnie Coleman who runs a cardiology practice in TX was extremely detailed in all his info, and swore by cycling base only compounds and coming off for at least 4 weeks. He claimed Coleman only ran about 3x 12 week cycles a year and never went much higher than 1g of a single compound at a time.

Some of you older guys in the know might know who im talking about, Craig Titus was a training partner and snitched on him long ago.

I totally get all that. I started lifting before Titus even thought of lifting weights. When i dropped my dose(usually didn't go above a gram total) down my poundages stayed pretty much the same. And my weight didn't drop much at all as i didn't ever hold much water. I used to come off for a couple months and stay on my Dr. prescribed TRT and so i am not sure how much actual stimulation is used or needed from higher doses. I never noticed feeling much different on gear as opposed to off. If anything i felt a little better when i was more normal. I was never one to think vascular was a good look either so. The only real head game i would play would be thinking i was not growing as much when i was off cycle. But as i have written before i put on over 40# of muscle before i touched gear so i never thought i was nothing when i was off cycle. I pretty much kept eating and training the same. I am sure after 6 months off there would have been so noticeable difference. But i see many that think the gear is what they need and can't grow or do anything without it.
I tend to think people grow from food and the other things just help food do it's job. But opinions differ

 

[Doitagain]

I still see the wrong comparisons being made (stims, narcotics) but the AR and its ligans are not subject to tachyphylaxis, so no need for increasing doses to elicit the same effect with subsequent administrations.

 

[Swifto]

I still see the wrong comparisons being made (stims, narcotics) but the AR and its ligans are not subject to tachyphylaxis, so no need for increasing doses to elicit the same effect with subsequent administrations.

But what about bodyweight?

Do we need higher doses as our bodyweight increases?

Would a 70kg male require the same AAS dose as a 140kg male?

Playing devils advocate a bit here...

 

[Doitagain]

But what about bodyweight?

Do we need higher doses as our bodyweight increases?

Would a 70kg male require the same AAS dose as a 140kg male?

Playing devils advocate a bit here...

More muscle tissue, more AR to bind so yeah, increasing the dose makes perfectly sense here.
That's why increasing the dosage is well warranted once you're bigger, not a matter of loss of sensitivity.

 

[Yousef12O2]

But what about bodyweight?

Do we need higher doses as our bodyweight increases?

Would a 70kg male require the same AAS dose as a 140kg male?

Playing devils advocate a bit here...

Brother 70kg male would grow from 500mgs a week. 140kg bodybuilder would lose muscle on 500mgs a week lol

 

[LK3]

And your diet/calories and training stayed the same all those years? Of did some of those factors change as well.

no brotha
the only thing stable in my life is instability
in that time everything has changed wildly many times-
ive lost and gained like 100lbs twice. lol
ive been through all types of crazy shit.

 

[mexbeast]

I was gaining size from working out and eating food, not by replacing food with powders. Is all about training and food, it takes many many years of hard training, you need to be consistent and live a healthy life style. It toke me over 30 years to have 20 inch arms. Once you reach your potentials and you want to keep the size you will need to train the same way as you did to that point.

This here is called old school!

 

[showstopper83]

Well he’s pretty much blasting base compounds “hard” (your words) for 2/3+ of the year so yeah I’m sure it worked. I guess that’s one way to do it, not the approach I would take.

This guy also clearly had A+ genetics, as he told me he was a collegiate sprinter prior to becoming a bber. I think a lot of people that are genetic freaks give advice not realizing that not everyone is working with the same things they are.

For example, i blasted for 2+ years straight, came off cold turkey, zero PCT and wasn't shut down even 6 mos after... at age 39. I would NEVER advise anyone else to do that, and it was stupid of me to do it myself.

What i can speak on though, is after blasting for 3 years straight up until i was 33, i came off completely for 18 months, lost a bunch of weight/muscle. By the time i got back into shape and ran a cycle, off just modest amounts (375mg Test/300mg NPP/600mg EQ), i put on skeletal muscle tissue that i never had before and still have. I gained probably 24 lbs on that cycle, with only about 1/2 being muscle memory.

So i do believe there is SOME truth to time off leading to gains that were not there before, based on my experience. But if your goal is to constantly look good, then ya, coming off for a few months at a time is a problem.

 

[showstopper83]

Brother 70kg male would grow from 500mgs a week. 140kg bodybuilder would lose muscle on 500mgs a week lol

140k guy in what context though? Has he already been running heavy cycles? Then yes, he would lose muscle bc it took him a lot more than 500mg to get there.

But if he was natural or had only used moderate doses, he would still grow on 500mg of Test.

Look at your average NFL Defensive End, who weighs about 265 lbs. like Nick Bosa. He would absolutely blow the fuck up on 500mg of test if he has never ran gear before.

 

[luki7788]

140k guy in what context though? Has he already been running heavy cycles? Then yes, he would lose muscle bc it took him a lot more than 500mg to get there.

But if he was natural or had only used moderate doses, he would still grow on 500mg of Test.

Look at your average NFL Defensive End, who weighs about 265 lbs. like Nick Bosa. He would absolutely blow the fuck up on 500mg of test if he has never ran gear before.

this is "PROFESSIONAL MUSCLE" so we never mean natural people

 

[aHarness]

this is "PROFESSIONAL MUSCLE" so we never mean natural people

Not to mention, NFL players are definitely on steroids

 

[Heath82]

Not to mention, NFL players are definitely on steroids

They can’t be, they get tested