National Level Cycle

[flexingtonsteele]

Actually the majority of juicers are completely clueless about gear IME.

Bodybuilders are sneaky bastards. They can be literally homeless and find a way to still run gear.
Many competitors don't really pay for it anyway, they just deal enough to get theirs for free.

I googled this guy and he apparently played in the NFL. Now training with juicers, obviously been around gear for a long time, so if he really wanted to he could do it with no money at all.

Not arguing whether this guy juices or not, talking more generally.

Edit. You said it while I was posting. Bodybuilders are the same no matter what part of the world they live in.

So true bro, as my friend shane says " a bodybuilder is a bodybuilder is a bodybuilder"

 

[MightyJohn]

Very simple. I man takes a certain amount of hormones to get to a certain level of size. To a degree you can to up the dose to get bigger. Then you can add insulin GH and maybe up your dose even more and now you are 40 pounds heavier.

Magnum...this "dose" should be drawn on results/plateaus I assume...?

 

[AWN2004]

HAHA! Believe me ive been called alot worst.

Unlike you, I cant let my naiveity take over when it comes to bodybuilding.

I remember a guy at the first gym i ever trained said when it came to guys on drugs "if it looks too good to be true, it is!"

I'll always remember that and go by that to this day. That guy shelby posted is on shit, ronnie didnt turn pro naturally, and no one else did, i dont care what anyone else says, theres a look that a natural has and sorry, shelbys friend just doesnt have it.

Dude....I'm jaded. I'm actually going to apologize for calling you that because you were only stating your opinion. I just know for a fact, 100% fact some things that seem unbelievable to most and because of that I really do believe there are some true freaks out there. Call me blind, naive, or whatever but I guess I will just keep my random thoughts to myself.

 

[flexingtonsteele]

Dude....I'm jaded. I'm actually going to apologize for calling you that because you were only stating your opinion. I just know for a fact, 100% fact some things that seem unbelievable to most and because of that I really do believe there are some true freaks out there. Call me blind, naive, or whatever but I guess I will just keep my random thoughts to myself.

Honestly bro, speak your mind.

The first board i posted on was getbig, where censorship wasnt even an option, so im not used to people holding their tongues like they do over here.

In bodybuilding far too many people are afraid to say what they think because they dont want to hurt someones feelings or say the wrong thing politically. I just dont get it.........

 

[tr]

I met this National Level NPC amateur at a show last weekend and talked to him about how much he uses he claims to be using this much currently....

Test E 2400mg a week
Tren E 1000mg a week
EQ 600mg a week
Anadrol 100-150mg a day
Insulin 10 Ius Post Workout

Do u guys think he's being realistic or he's full of shit?? He qualified for nationals...he's about 5'7 230-235lbs

I feel sorry for this guy...damn 1g tren:banghead:

I know none will believe, but this physique above in the pics is built on 1g total

 

[Swifto]

I dont know.....my personal thoughts are this.....

Ronnie got 4th or 5th at the nationals in the heavies back in 91? and was the only guy who volunteered for the drug tested team universe....now Ronnie at that time really wasnt being helped by "guru's" but I believe the guy who owns Metroflex and a few local guys....who i dont consider "masters of beating the drug test".....so for him to volunteer for it when the 4 guys above him wouldnt take the chance....kind of tells me he was pretty darn sure he was clean with no problem passing it....because failing would have been an embarrassment and a half and I just think he would have passed on it if there was a chance of him being caught.

I think he went in at 222 or something like that and he was one of the ones DRUG TESTED there if i remember right and won....my thoughts? He was clean at that time. That was 91 correct? From 92 to 95 I believe he took a step upward albeit a very very small one...stuff a welterweight would probably do now at a local show from what I saw.....real light stuff...and during those years I believe he competed from 232 to 245......late 95 or 96 he starts doing what the Jones's around him are doing with CN and its like fast forward on a rocketship with his genetics and the allready huge base he had built (remember we are talking 222 clean so he was probably 265-270 offseason mode clean back 91 and previous)........he goes on to compete at an absolutely ridiculous 287, 296 at olympias and 303 pounds at the Hungarian Grand Prix so if anyone thinks he was on at only 222 lbs when he weighed in years later at 80 pounds heavier!!!!!.......what did he have back in the day..... bunk gear? If some of these natural pro's (Layne Norton etc) can weigh 200 to 212 natural at Ronnie's height, I have to believe a guy with one of the best genetic makeups in the world for bodybuilding who trained like a forklift could weigh 222 clean....and probably would have even gotten larger clean and maybe ended up at 230 onstage natural......but thats just my opinion......and I base that largely on seeing him weigh 287, 296 and 303 pounds later on.
I kind of believe the same about Kai Greene early in his career....the guy weighs 256 to 268 onstage now.....when he used to weigh in at 201-206 or so.....whats the obvious conclusion to me? Probably was clean back then and can now weigh 66 pounds more onstage because he is blasting.

And.....maybe not....I dont know....Im just going by my observations. I got to tend to believe if years later you are weighing 60 to 80 pounds more at a pretty elite level.....than you were earlier in your career....could be a good chance you were like a woman trying to enter the Mrs America without your makeup on back in the day and getting your ass kind of kicked.

Either was Ronnie looks amazing in 91.

He could have been on something there (300-500mg Test) and his doses could have sky rocketted in the years putting on that much LBM.

He could have been on 4-5g of Test alone during 2003-2005?

 

[Swifto]

It seems as though some true freaks are on tiny amounts of AAS and look "juiced up" and others the same size are on massive, extreme amounts fighting their genitics.

There isnt a set rule for those in the amatuer, national or even pro ranks. Some may be on small amounts, others on scary amounts of AAS and various ancillaries.

 

[chris250]

1991 NPC USA Ronnie Coleman

YouTube - Ronnie Coleman Prejudging 1991 NPC USA

Man what I give to have those genetics...I dont care what people say, natural or not Ronnie looked great there...Ok so if Ronnie was pretty clean there (or natty) then what about the rest of the guys that year...What about other guys with extreme genetics...Like Flex, Cormier....I mean these guys at that time where young kids like in there early twentys....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5urWbEFBPA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqBgR97gYxE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQRQo8BaBdQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtPcSkldTQY&feature=related


How much do you think these great BB took to get the the USA stage...Flex had killer genetics but was very tiny as a teen...Coleman, if I remember right was pretty decent size as a teen...Around 1-2 gram total per week, some GH....??? Or do you think it was just some test (500-750mg) and some type of anabolic (EQ or deca, ect)...probably some GH (but in ligher doses, back then) ...I know the only ones that really know are those guys themself...but it would be interesting to know what they did back in the early 90's compared to now...I believe, guys back then did alot...But not like some guys do today...But who knows...????

 

[chris250]

I feel sorry for this guy...damn 1g tren:banghead:

I know none will believe, but this physique above in the pics is built on 1g total

that guy is a middleweight right ?

 

[Gunsmith]

So here's a guy who at 47 years of age with basically no legs having most if his size in his upper body ripped on stage at 205 at 5' 10" and totally natural. Hmmm you know what, you are right.

I work with a guy who is a bit bigger than this fella ,Black guy maybe 6'2" weighs around 220-225 and his upped body is not far from being that lean with ZERO diet , this guys shoulders , chest , back and arms are freaky big for his waist size but has no legs , has very good abs and swear he hasen't done situps in 10yrs !!.
He dropped out of highschool at 15 has worked pouring and finishing concrete for 12yrs before going offshore , he is now almost 40 , eats maybe 2 meals a day (breakfast & lunch) and it ain't much (he says a he has a big dinner and thats all he needs)

I've seen pics of him when he was younger and his build was the same , actualy looked a bit bigger in his 20's , never taken anything and only worked out for a year his first year offshore.

Some people are just genticly blessed and don't do anything with it. Had sombody got hold of this guy in jr high school and coached him a little he probably would have made a athletic phenom

 

[tr]

that guy is a middleweight right ?

SHW...got his pro card at 240+ pounds on tiny dosages mentioned before...over the years as a pro added another 40 pounds contest weight

 

[b-boy]

question?

question for magnum! do you live near many black people? do you workout at a local gym that has quite a few black members in it daily?

 

[Shelby]

question for magnum! do you live near many black people? do you workout at a local gym that has quite a few black members in it daily?

If he trained at my gym he would think everyone was juicing
(I'm usually the only white guy there)

 

[oreolo]

Genetics rule

To the folks who dont beleive shelbys friend could be natural, could you post a picture of what you think is the absolute best a natural bodybuilder with superior genetics can attain?

I dont say this to sound racist or suggest the superiority of a race athletically, its just that when people talk about the best naturals, they all tend to be black. Before anyone says what has that got to do with any thing. Dante Trudel really made me wise up to the power of genetics and how vastly superior some individuals are, even among siblings!

To those who dont beleive in the superiority of genetics, this month Christophe Lemaitre became the first white man in HISTORY TO DO SUB 10, something many blacks have done decades ago.

ironically the worlds fastest white man will be racing my school friend Dwain Chambers next week in spain(who has run sub 10 before). The 4 yrs we were at school from age 12 - 16. Dwain absolutely slaughtered everyone in our school and borough

99.9% of the worlds population white, black or whatever race are in the mediocre middle and will never do what the elite can do. This does not require anyones consent. this applies to many things other than bodybuilding

 

[Lenny]

These are all good points. But, why the hell do we care if that person is natural or not natural. If we are discussing them, they obviously have better genetics than us

I always find it funny when people question a person, why do we give a shit...because we are pissed off that we lack something. Work hard, be discipline, train, eat, recover on a consistent basis with combination of patience and persistance. Oh yeah, if you choose to supplement, be smart about it with you health being part of that plan. Then, just sit back and see what muscle potential is in store for you. It may take longer than these one and done magic people who come and go, however invest some time into and maybe a couple of years or more you will wake up and be happy about what you have done whether it be natural or not!

Also, I do not care what anybody says there are some genetic freaks out there without a doubt and I do believe Shelby trainer partner is natural, why not believe that...he looks great and genetics are bitch sometimes, but that is cards we get dealt sometimes.

I will not deny that we must progress in all things, however small steps in some areas go along way and if that doesn't work, time to take up golf and heart healthy exercise!

 

[massnup]

I feel sorry for this guy...damn 1g tren:banghead:

I know none will believe, but this physique above in the pics is built on 1g total

Ok, 1 gram cycle but how many 1 gram cycles and for how long in duration etc?

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Now shelby this is a very hard pill for me to swallow to believe that this guy is a life time natural.

Now either one of the following is happening.

1. Either he is simply not telling you the truth and he's taking what little aas he can get his hands on. I know guys who cant pay rent, but they have enough money for their next cycle. So the being broke thing doesnt hold water with me. Im sure you and other people on this site know guys like that as well.

OR!

2. You being a prep contest trainer and online nutritionist are saying this guy is natural simply because it helps your business if you say it. Fact is, there are lots of young gullable kids saying "damn, if shelby can get this guy huge and shredded at 47 natural, imagine he can do with me"

So like i said earlier, either you are naive or have a hidden agenda.....

Which one it is, I dont know.

I am absolutely shocked that you 3 think Shelby's training partner has to be on.....now I dont know about Flexington Steele (if i remember right he actually is black) and i dont know much about killerstack....but Magnum has been around the block and living in the Ohio area I KNOW HE HAS SEEN freak of nature black guys who are just so genetically gifted that it makes your head spin.
I really want to ask you guys....if in your opinion nothing can be done without drugs....what the heck drew you to the sport of bodybuilding in the first place? If training, supplementation and diet dont do jack shit for building anything over 180 pounds....how the heck did you get involved and stay interested in an endeavor like this? Ive seen some black individuals (and some token white guys) who just are mind boggling bodybuilders natural.....and like Shelby said....these guys have absolutely no clue whatsoever on juicing....once you have been around an individual for awhile, you can get a gist whether they are pulling one over on you or not.......I absolutely 100% believe Shelby's training partner is natural because I think Shelby is that thorough and if anyone would know its Shelby....and I think his physique is attainable (and even more) by genetically gifted individuals.

There is a reason that only one white guy in history has run the 100 meters in less than 10 seconds while a whole slew of black guys have done it and as unfair as it is....its because they are genetically better than white guys in the 100 meters just as they are (person by person count) across the board way better than us in bodybuilding.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

question for magnum! do you live near many black people? do you workout at a local gym that has quite a few black members in it daily?

This is the exact same question I want to ask him.....one of my best friends (black) won a local "biggest arms in San Diego" contest back some years ago, and beat Garrett Downing and another really good local bodybuilder in doing so.....20 and 1/4 inches I believe it was and Jonathan (my friend is lean).....the joke was everyone was laughing because everybody knows Jonathan and everyone knew Jonathan was natural (even Garrett) at that time. Jonathan always has had bigass arms....genetically gifted, 6 foot tall, never changed, never got bigger, or smaller....that was just him and his great genetics......so I am having a hard time fathoming that 3 guys think Shelby's training partner is loaded when Ive and I would suppose others on this board have seen black guys who rivaled shelbys training partner.
You three come from Getbig.com where everyone lies there ass off, gimmicks left and right and the whole board is one big conspiracy theory and truths/nontruths......there are some individuals in this sport that dont quite live their life by the mode that is the norm on getbig....and are actualy truthfull about things they do. Every single person in bodybuilding isnt a straight out bullshit artist. Flexington the way you talk about people in the sport....if they are all liars and thats what makes up the people in the sport....why the heck would you even want to be involved in it and on these boards? If everyone in a certain endeavor was dirtbag shysters....I sure as hell wouldnt be involved with that endeavor.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

sorry bout that oreolo....didnt see your post until after i posted about the 100

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Back to the original point of me posting on this thread....

There is a growing number of individuals in this sport that kind have gotten to the point of "wow this is freaking crazy to be on all this stuff year round...this is dangerous as hell...I dont want to end up dead at 36 years old"........they also cannot get off for various reasons.

So I am seeing more and more people using TRT like dosages (200-400mg) of testosterone only with (low to high dose) GH and trying to make quality gains with that in the offseason.

How does it work best? Well if you allready put on a boatload of size previous...that would definitely be a plus wouldnt it? Its not going to make 180 pound Johnny into 260 Johnny overnight thats for sure...... but its a hell of alot safer than being on alot of stuff year round......

so that was the equation talked about in another thread....and how he grows into a show....Low and very responsible androgen/anabolic use with GH (not very small amount there to be honest) to try to make quality gains in size and then all out BLASTING going into a show..........but the point i was trying to get across was "sure as hell doesnt look too bad in the offseason does he?"

And any guys on this thread are not going to drop 30-40 pounds of muscle doing roughly TRT with gh for lengths of time if you keep your diet/training/supplementation optimal.