after 20 years of juicing i got a BLOOD CLOT ....

[11111]

i know i shouldnt do anything but thats not gonna happen

Come on Thor, how can you say this? Please be smart. I've seen you mention that you have a daughter before on here. Don't you want to be around a long time for her?

 

[brutus69]

for those of you who use Nattokinase. what brands do u like and how much a day? ive never heard of it, just started looking around for it.
seems like a pretty effective supp.

 

[alfresco]

Perspective

Thor . . . so sorry to read of your misfortune. I wish you full and speedy recovery
and continued safe and good health moving forward. Nothing like a wake-up call
to, well . . . wake you up. Lots of good people chiming in here. I know you are too
smart not to listen.

Time to change your perspective?

Perspective . . .

You know those white dashed lines separating the lanes in a highway?
How long are they? When asked to guess the length of the lines from memory,
most people will answer 2 – 3 feet. The real answer is 10 feet. Yes, 10 feet.
(That is the federal guideline.)

And that’s the first problem in life. It’s called perspective. Your perspective
is always driving at 60mph, so they look 3 feet long. Unless you change your
perspective, you never get to see the truth. Worse, much worse, you go
through life confident they are three feet.

Which brings us to the second problem: closed mindedness. Even though
I’ve told you the truth, you still don’t believe it—that’s how powerful your
perspective is. “He must be talking about some other lines, maybe in France?”
Unless you change your perspective, you will never be open to the truth,
to the discovery that what you have thought, for your entire life, is wrong.
Unless you get out of your car and measure those lines, you’ll never
accept the truth.

Which brings us to the third problem: if you do try and change your perspective,
get out and measure those lines, you will be quickly dispatched by a minivan
to the face for your lack of faith

 

[mikevegas]

Maldorf get in here!

Mikevegas that was in 2009, No aas, but do you do TRT?

Do you/can you still train hard? Just thinking 7 years on what keeps you in the game

Fortunately I got into surgery within 45 minutes of the HA starting, and made basically a full recovery. I was estimated to have 10-20% heart damage, but the heart can rehab itself like other muscles. One disorder is bad, two is REALLY bad, so no I don't touch anything that affects blood thickness, clotting, etc, including low dose TRT. The only thing I do is HGH, or ghrh/ghrp, or combo of.

 

[B-Trotter]

I'm 28 now. At 26, I had a large haematoma develop 3 hours after major surgery to remove a double intramuscular abscess from my left quad... I know the pain my friend. My doc blamed the tren.

Like Thor, I refuse to come off of steroids. I can't go back to "before." That said, I stick purely to test and mast only. I also have bloods every 8 weeks.

 

[nothuman]

Fortunately I got into surgery within 45 minutes of the HA starting, and made basically a full recovery. I was estimated to have 10-20% heart damage, but the heart can rehab itself like other muscles. One disorder is bad, two is REALLY bad, so no I don't touch anything that affects blood thickness, clotting, etc, including low dose TRT. The only thing I do is HGH, or ghrh/ghrp, or combo of.

Good to hear. What did you do in order to reverse the heart damage?

 

[RamboStallone]

Thor, sorry to hear brother! I would recommend you watch your hema closely going forward. Stay away from EQ if it's increasing your hema/RBC count. Stay hydrated, baby aspirin prebed, etc. Like others have listed here. I think you already know most of this.

I unfortunately can't help much here, I have the opposite issue...mine is too low, even on 2g of gear.

 

[mikevegas]

Good to hear. What did you do in order to reverse the heart damage?

Exercise rebuilds the heart muscle, whatever your exercise is. For me I kept lifting and I play almost every sport, didn't change my lifestyle at all. I took a few weeks off then slowly returned to working out, and kept going harder and harder only to not hit any limitations. I'm lucky in that aspect, but having two disorders it's likely I will have another clot issue in the future, heart attack, stroke, etc. But whatever I'm not going to worry about it, no point.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

just sayin....

i know 55year olds and younger who have had blood clots
never using any kind of AAS.

why does everyone think this is the cause...????

Because Ive looked at more bloodwork of various people over the years who were bodybuilders than anyone I know out there....and time and time again, people who juice have high hematocrit....and sometimes seriously high hematocrit. Those 37 bicyclists that died a few years back from using EPO, a naysayer could have come into any forum and said "well my dads friends wifes husband had a blood clot and he never used EPO"....when if we want to get down to brass tacks....EPO is what killed those bicyclists. Maldorf on this site had a hematocrit of 63 and a short time later had a massive heart attack at I want to say a late 30's age....that isnt bad luck and coincedence...its a result of the compounds being used there. There have been so many incidences Ive seen of people with 57-63 hematocrit who were juicing bodybuilders who only found out that had hyper thick blood because they FINALLY got bloodwork or more likely had a thrombotic event. This isnt a "scare guys off from juicing" campaign by me....this is a "juice like you want to but gdamn it...find out whats going on when you are on hardcore and tweak it if you have to so you dont do major damage" campaign by me. I guarantee you...if you gave the guys like Pekkerwood/Maldorf/BaldNazi/ etc etc etc and the guys like Plang and others like him who just dissapeared off the site without telling their stories (Plang went into kidney failure i think it was at 28 years old).....if you gave those guys a second chance to do things differently...I bet every single one of them would leap over fire for that second chance to do things differently. There is a way to do this stuff and be ever single bit of the bodybuilder every one on this site wants to become....and there is a way to do this stuff with blinders on...and thats the guys who are running into trouble........and thats the guys im trying to talk to

 

[flipper2012]

Dante,

Your knowledge is greatly appreciated and significantly affected me in a positive way. Thank you

 

[Mb4377]

I thought if anyone would have listened to some of my advice over the last few years Thor it would be you.....(and im not saying that to be a dick but I would think you would have followed my lead on a few things)



Questions: What has your bloodwork been saying as far as hemoglobin/hematocrit when ON (NOT CLEANED OUT BUT ON) over the last few years?



b) How dehydrated did you let yourself get lately? Did you happen to sleep on that arm at all? Are you a side sleeper and slept on that arm? Any airplane flights of late?



c) Im just freaking shocked man that some of you older guys take such freaking chances with Equipoise and to a lesser point deca but Equipoise? As you age and being a juicer your hematocrit/hemoglobin ALWAYS RISES with AAS usage...and the last thing you want to be doing is adding to that blood thickening effect with a drug widely known to increase RBC's....I dont get it.....how often have you been using equipoise and deca in the last 5 years?



Basically I would like to know if you have been getting regular bloodwork when on or you have blown it off.....



after i see some answers to the above questions....if you want to hear what i would do if i was you (and it involves TRT if everything checks out and you get back to square one health wise so trust me I know you dont want to hear the goodytwoshoes "you must get off" speel...i get it )....ill give it...(it sure as hell doesnt involve Equipoise)

As a person who's opinion I highly respect let me ask, Other than test at TRT doses what other aas would be considered in cycles for the 40 something bodybuilder?

 

[jrock00123]

OP, be safe brother. There is some excellent advice in this thread.

 

[nothuman]

As a person who's opinion I highly respect let me ask, Other than test at TRT doses what other aas would be considered in cycles for the 40 something bodybuilder?

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f.../118324-mike-matarazzo-rip-8.html#post1956065

Sort of relevant to your question.

 

[gotgame]

Keep HCT below 50 if posssible. That may mean finding creative ways to donate more frequently.

learn about the effects of estrogen and progesterone on clotting factor production. Keep both in check. If you are basing it off bloat and gyno then you are a lost cause.

if you are site injecting in your biceps stop. Not going to get into the patho there.

Exercise induced thrombosis is fairly common. I gave a talk on this in december to a bunch of students and residents. Know what it is so maybe you can work out smarter in the future. you didnt give any real info on your clot but since you are bber look into paget schroder etc.

Keep cycles on the lower dose side for many many reasons.

take ASA at least 81mg daily if not more because of your history now.

Dont mess around with other clotting factor inhibitor stuff unless you have a true underling issue like factor 5 leiden but that is rare. ( that is after you finish your current doctor prescribed course)

Learn the warning signs of a PE.

Make sure you have good coronary health as a submassive PE wont kill you but the subsequent right heart strain in the setting of subtotal occlusion of the coronaries will. Seen a lot of people go that way.

 

[Mb4377]

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f.../118324-mike-matarazzo-rip-8.html#post1956065



Sort of relevant to your question.

Thk u, exactly what I was looking for...

 

[Thor]

I know man

I thought if anyone would have listened to some of my advice over the last few years Thor it would be you.....(and im not saying that to be a dick but I would think you would have followed my lead on a few things)

Questions: What has your bloodwork been saying as far as hemoglobin/hematocrit when ON (NOT CLEANED OUT BUT ON) over the last few years?

b) How dehydrated did you let yourself get lately? Did you happen to sleep on that arm at all? Are you a side sleeper and slept on that arm? Any airplane flights of late?

c) Im just freaking shocked man that some of you older guys take such freaking chances with Equipoise and to a lesser point deca but Equipoise? As you age and being a juicer your hematocrit/hemoglobin ALWAYS RISES with AAS usage...and the last thing you want to be doing is adding to that blood thickening effect with a drug widely known to increase RBC's....I dont get it.....how often have you been using equipoise and deca in the last 5 years?

Basically I would like to know if you have been getting regular bloodwork when on or you have blown it off.....

after i see some answers to the above questions....if you want to hear what i would do if i was you (and it involves TRT if everything checks out and you get back to square one health wise so trust me I know you dont want to hear the goodytwoshoes "you must get off" speel...i get it )....ill give it...(it sure as hell doesnt involve Equipoise)

Dante you know who i am, we used to speak on the phone somewhat regularly in the mid 90s, I was a subscriber to Hardcore Muscle.... Yes you were always caring and the voice of reason, dont think i didnt hear you all this time, I donated blood, i NEVER went over a gram of test , my cycles were usually 500 test and 300 of some deca or tren or EQ with it. I rarely ever used orals and always took time off, ok so eventually it got to not as much time off but i still never went over 1 gram test and 500 other anabolics, i always took a lot of supps like Omega 3 CoQ10 and a few others, i joined LEF.ORG and use a lot of their stuff, i read a lot and educate myself , i recently had a bad memory episode ( lost almost all short term memory and kept asking what we were doing here to my GF) and was admitted to a hospital where they did CT scans from head to toe and told me i was fine, they found nothing wrong, although i still have no memory of that whole day and night, i had recently donated blood just 2 months ago and was well within range and i took baby aspirin every night before bed with Melatonin and Magnesium, so i am stumped, i had hernia surgery the last week of December and was completely OFF everything for a month before that and 3 months after, so i just went back on 500 test in April and that is why I just didnt see this coming, although come to think of it i DONT drink much plain water and havent for a few years now so thats gonna change, i really would like to say THANK YOU to everyone who commented, your input is appreciated !.... Dante i thought i was being smart and responsible, and i do have a daughter who is grown up now but yea i still want to be a responsible father to her for many more years, PLEASE do tell me what you would do from here on in !..... I know that there has to be a way to manage this and still do a little aas for a few more years, when im 60 ill go to trt and nothing else ! I have NO family history and i never injected in biceps, im just wondering if i can even donate now ? Do they want it if your on a blood thinner?

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Thor did you have regular bloodwork and more importantly any bloodwork to reference while you were on in the middle of a cycle of 1000/500? Did they think you had a mini stroke during the memory lapse? Did they test you for clotting disorders (factor V Leiden etc) during this blood clot? Do you sleep on that side- arm? Were there any complications post-op from the hernia surgery?

 

[Thor]

Sorry man...

Thor did you have regular bloodwork and more importantly any bloodwork to reference while you were on in the middle of a cycle of 1000/500? Did they think you had a mini stroke during the memory lapse? Did they test you for clotting disorders (factor V Leiden etc) during this blood clot? Do you sleep on that side- arm? Were there any complications post-op from the hernia surgery?

I never had bloodwork when "on" , no
I think i had a mini stroke cuz about a month after that i lost my vision in one eye while driving to my GFs and my head felt so weird that i had to pull over and shake it off and wait til i felt normal again (few minutes) but no they did not say anything like that, they were stumped.
They took my blood the last time i went to the doc but all they told me was i had inflammation. I can call them and go back and get tested for that anytime though.
I always try to sleep on my side but never can cuz it hurts my shoulders, so i always end up on my back.
No complications from the hernia surgery , he said it was easy cuz i was so lean, no mesh either , i asked and he said it wasnt needed, i was only on Dilaudid pain meds for about 3 weeks and then i was fine.
THANKS for asking and your input, Dante im just pissed now cuz the more i think about it I mean my GF and i would eat grilled wild salmon and green beans and a sweet potato and meals like that all the time, but i guess i did have a weakness for cheesecake and ice cream but really only about once a month did i indulge and low sugar and low carb too for a couple years, now, i like being a lean 190 lbs and feel fine usually.

 

[Thor]

i mean i take all these almost every day !

 

[Thor]

I HAVE woken up a few times and my arm was hurting and tingling and somewhat numb from sleeping on it, i am a side sleeper naturally so i probably end up like that in my sleep, also i cant help but wonder if past injuries and blunt force trauma from my upbringing wold have any lingering effect, or injuries from my job, im kind of a dumbass and still havent gotten a desk or sales job but i am making the move this year to FL and am going to get out of construction for good. ALSO , blood pressure was always normal ! got that checked regularly, only thing i can think of is dehydrated.