America Dead Last In Healthcare

[jay_dub]

You a Pohm or a Skip?

Neither bro.

I'm just sharing some info that I see has a lot of validity in it and was wondering the thoughts from everyone. And I'm glad to see these issues being discussed..

I just call it how I see it, that's all. And I work very very VERY hard at getting viewpoints from ALL spectrums and ALL directions, not just one side of things.

I enjoy discussing issues with people from not only in the U.S. but have discussions with people from outside and listen to podcasts with the people much smarter than I am discuss issues like this. Which is why I still stick to what I said about being cunts. We look like cunts.

And I certainly don't leave out myself when referring to America being that way. I can most certainly be a cunt. But I'm at peace with that because that just means I still have a lot of growing to do as a human being. And I'm happy about that. But it takes a lot of work, intense personal examination, and way more effort than most people are willing to put in to begin to actually open their eyes to what's going on in this system of America that they live in and what it takes to truly be ease with themselves so they can start making quality decisions and feel good about it. And when I see the things going on in this country, I just see so many lost people who have zero awareness or desire to be any better.

But getting back to the healthcare system, obviously there are going to be all sorts of issues as well as positive things (as there will always be with any industry such as this) but I think it comes down to two things. If you could tackle these things, everything changes.

Mental health and behavioural change education

They fail on every front.

My girl is a nurse on a general medicine floor for a hospital. Some of the things she has told me is just astounding how the system fails so many people on a regular basis. She is so passionate about it now after seeing it all that she's becoming a NP and eventually opening her own practice.

So the health care system fails completely at helping individuals cope with the core issue (mental health), you don't have good education to help people begin to wake up to their ways/bad habits or how to slowly begin to make the tiniest slightest positive changes to start regularly making better choices. And this is obviously partly due to big pharma not wanting the core issue solved, they want you on pills. But instead of any sort of society moving towards making better decisions, we have all these phone distracted,completely unaware, fat, lazy, get whatever you can for free while doing the least amount of work type minded Americans using this system.

OF COURSE we're gonna make a good run at being last in a system like that.

And yeah, we look like cunts.

 

[jay_dub]

And Chigur, I wasn't directing all that at you, just went off on a tangent after responding to you.

But I would love to come visit Australia sometime, maybe you can show me around

 

[method2madness]

What do you call the person who graduates last in their class at medical school?....Doctor, and that goes for any country in the world. I've had shitty Dr's and awesome ones who have worked with me and essentially erased the negative impact that epilepsy has had on my life. I had a frontal lobectomy ( brain surgery) to reduce the organic tissue in my brain causing seizures. Wouldn't want that procedure done in any country but the U.S.A. All of this was possible because I have a solid career with very god insurance. This is possible for all people in this country if they make good life and career choices. True, challenges exist for everyone but it comes down to making this shit happen through your life decisions.

 

[hawkmoon]

I think you're on to something, wars will no longer be won by physicality. there may come a time when there are no troops needed, period

I'm doing research now on the comparative AI stance of the US, EU, Russia, and China.
A new kind of warfare is inevitable, with full battlefield autonomy being the extreme outcome.

China fully intends to win, and with the money they are pouring into schooling and funding companies they will be tough to beat.
The US DoD knows they are at risk, with US education starting to lag and funding hard to come by. Also, the AI research in DoD, DARPA, JAIC, and other areas is not well coordinated.
There is a real risk when a nation views science, education, and research as unnecessary or "elitist". Our enemies are well aware of this, and it is part of their information warfare campaign to perpetuate those ideas amongst the US population.

Russia is floundering due to massive neglect in education and research. The best talent goes to Silicon Valley where they earn 4x as much.
They have partnered with China, building labs with Huawei in Russia, but the Chinese know it's a one-sided relationship. Russia knows they are getting snubbed and aren't happy.
This is why they are focusing on Cyber-Warfare the most, as it is not as dependant on the development of advanced hardware technology innovation.

It's a fascinating area to look at.

 

[hawkmoon]

A powerful EMP blast would take out most electronics and equipment. I believe that is one thing to be used in the future. Another is cyberwarfare.

There is military EMP shielding/hardening that is far beyond anything the average citizen (or engineer) is aware of.
This is all factored in.

 

[tweezor]

Make no mistake, the Nordic countries (or Spain, where I live) are still at the service of big pharma, only that the search for profit in Europe is not as exaggerated as in the USA.

The clearest example of this is that with the pandemic, all governments, except Sweden, submitted to the dictates of the WHO (which is financed by big pharma).

What I mean is that it is great to have "free" health services, but there is no health service where the patient chooses his treatment among several options, you only have institutionalized and official medicine.

I mean..actually there is, we picked what kind of cancer treatment we wanted. and what kind of drugs we wanted to use.

 

[tweezor]

“For free”, that’s great. Now please tell us your tax rate, this will tell us everything.

As I said, i gladly pay my taxes.. and I would pay more if needed

43% taxes

 

[BALDNAZI]

As I said, i gladly pay my taxes.. and I would pay more if needed

43% taxes

Ok, well here’s a reality check. Your healthcare isn’t free, your actually paying for it. Shocking right?
As far as paying more in taxes, I hear this from people in the US all the time. Did you know you can really do that? Next time it’s time to pay taxes add 10-20%, hey it’s for “free” stuff right? Go for it! But as usually happens, we already know you won’t pay more. But it sounds good when you say it right? Lol, thanks for playing

 

[hawkmoon]

I mean..actually there is, we picked what kind of cancer treatment we wanted. and what kind of drugs we wanted to use.

Same here in Japan.
You can choose from options, get second opinions, and even select optional services out of pocket if you want something special that isn't currently "on the menu".
I can even walk into a doctor's office without an appointment and pick random blood tests from a catalog and pay maybe $30.

Oh, and my tax rate is 40% including prefecture and city taxes (33% national).

 

[qbkilla]

hearing these tax rates just reinforces my opinion that America has better health care. I enjoy having more freedom to spend my own money how I see fit, rather than the goverment taking it and spending it how it sees fit (on people other than me).

Id gladly have lower taxes for less health care, because by living a healthy lifestyle, I rarely see a doctor. And by working full time and not having kids until marriage, I am able to save $ should I ever need it.

Maybe some things that that would make sense if there was universal health care..

1. Tax credit/refund for pople who don't have kids
2. Tax credit/ refund for people who don't use it often

This could limit one of the problems where responsible people are forced to pay for others who are not so responsible.

 

[hawkmoon]

hearing these tax rates just reinforces my opinion that America has better health care. I enjoy having more freedom to spend my own money how I see fit, rather than the goverment taking it and spending it how it sees fit (on people other than me).

Id gladly have lower taxes for less health care, because by living a healthy lifestyle, I rarely see a doctor. And by working full time and not having kids until marriage, I am able to save $ should I ever need it.

Maybe some things that that would make sense if there was universal health care..

1. Tax credit/refund for pople who don't have kids
2. Tax credit/ refund for people who don't use it often

This could limit one of the problems where responsible people are forced to pay for others who are not so responsible.

Just FYI, my taxes were higher in the US with less income.

I have far more money to save and invest than I ever did.

 

[hawkmoon]

I wanted to add just a little something because I think this gets overcomplicated and that creates an emotional situation for some, so I'll just break down how it works here for reference

Once I took up residence in Japan I needed to be on national health insurance.
Of course, it's not free; nothing is.

Without a job, you pay a certain scaled rate based on your income (or lack of) as a member of the national system, or Kenko-hoken.
When you join a company you join the employee-based system; Kokumin-kenko-hoken.
Just like in the US, you pay part, and your employer pays part, which is fully transparent.
Your company must provide you with a comprehensive health check at their cost.
If any problems show up, they will be taken care of. Health care is cheaper if proactive.

Everyone is in the same system, all accredited doctors and hospitals are in the same system
If you lose your job, nothing would change. Same coverage, same insurance card, only updated with the deletion of your employer's name.
Same doctors, clinics, and hospitals are available.
No denial of coverage for any pre-existing conditions or any of that.
For all this, Japan spends about 1/2 as much per capita on health care as the US.

As many said, it appears to be about making money.

While doctors are certainly among the more wealthy here, it's not extravagant.
There aren't any mega-insurance firms that battle with their customers and hospitals over every nickel and dime.
You won't find hospitals or clinics with million-dollar lobbies that look like modern art museums.
In fact, many hospitals here look relatively shabby. Boring white walls, worn vinyl on the waiting room chairs. They aren't getting rich off their patients.
All the equipment is top rate though, as you might expect seeing as the Japanese make much of the world's medical equipment, especially in imaging.
Quality of care is equal to if not better than the US according to research by the NEJM and other statistical reviews.
It's not about how much money you spend, it's what you spend money on that matters.

I can only assume the UK, Europe, and other national systems look similar.
Feel free to expand if you can.

I am absolutely sure the US could do this, and perhaps even do it better if there was the political will, along with better public education on the topic.

 

[Pheedno]

My wife and I together pay about 11% of our income to healthcare cost a year(Insurance, out of pocket items). We pay about 20% in fed inc tax, and then social security and medicare on top of that. All in all, that hits at about 36-37%. One way or another, it's definitely getting paid out. We're good money managers so I prefer to have the lower tax rate, choose my insurance and budget.
Unfortunately, I'd say 15% or less of middle class has the foresight to do this if they don't have employer share.
If high schools taught money and math(as my highschool co-op teacher did) instead of algebra or calculus(and had those as elective) then we'd have a much smarter society.

 

[tweezor]

Ok, well here’s a reality check. Your healthcare isn’t free, your actually paying for it. Shocking right?
As far as paying more in taxes, I hear this from people in the US all the time. Did you know you can really do that? Next time it’s time to pay taxes add 10-20%, hey it’s for “free” stuff right? Go for it! But as usually happens, we already know you won’t pay more. But it sounds good when you say it right? Lol, thanks for playing

You just dont know, do you? I can add 10% to my taxes..if I put that I will 5th may each year get that 10% back from our tax system..same happen if I put my taxes too low, then I get a fine instead

Please dont come here and tell me how our system works roflmao

 

[maldorf]

Just donate 10% or more of your income to the charity(s) of your choice. Some do to their church. The government doesn't need to chose where your money goes.

 

[ripriot]

News articles tend to be biased and self serving. Although our healthcare is not sustainable, this does not mean we are worst in coverage and health care. If you believe that then there are are other things fooling you in life too.

I’d rather score high in innovation every year (which we do) then have a high consumer happiness index.

You don’t need government to have universal coverage. That is just what’s being pushed on society.

“But as the FREOPP World Index of Healthcare Innovation illustrates, not all countries with universal coverage do so via government insurance. The five countries on top of the Index — Switzerland (#1), the Netherlands(#2), Germany (#3), Ireland (#4), and Israel (#5)—all have achieved universal coverage using private insurance. The Czech Republic (#16) is also a universal private system.”

Key Findings from the 2021 FREOPP World Index of Healthcare Innovation

Five countries with universal private health insurance — Switzerland, the Netherlands, Germany, Ireland, & Israel — top the 2021 rankings.

freopp.org

United States: #4 in the 2020 World Index of Healthcare Innovation

America’s leadership in health care choice, science, & technology is marred by a fiscally unsustainable system of government-run care.

freopp.org

 

[Bleed]

The government in those countries is the "Single Payer" and the citizens of those countries are the singular pool that would constitute the insured. The government still collects the taxes that fund the health care system and negotiates prices on pharmaceuticals even though the Care is provided by private institutions. The issue in the US is that the Care providers and the insurance companies (which act as for profit middle men and would cease to exist in a Single Payer system) would see profits cut and have no incentive to go that direction. The government is still required to make these systems function as they currently do.

News articles tend to be biased and self serving. Although our healthcare is not sustainable, this does not mean we are worst in coverage and health care. If you believe that then there are are other things fooling you in life too.

I’d rather score high in innovation every year (which we do) then have a high consumer happiness index.

You don’t need government to have universal coverage. That is just what’s being pushed on society.

“But as the FREOPP World Index of Healthcare Innovation illustrates, not all countries with universal coverage do so via government insurance. The five countries on top of the Index — Switzerland (#1), the Netherlands(#2), Germany (#3), Ireland (#4), and Israel (#5)—all have achieved universal coverage using private insurance. The Czech Republic (#16) is also a universal private system.”

Key Findings from the 2021 FREOPP World Index of Healthcare Innovation

Five countries with universal private health insurance — Switzerland, the Netherlands, Germany, Ireland, & Israel — top the 2021 rankings.

freopp.org

United States: #4 in the 2020 World Index of Healthcare Innovation

America’s leadership in health care choice, science, & technology is marred by a fiscally unsustainable system of government-run care.

freopp.org

 

[buck]

I have always been happy with the medical coverage i have earned. My first 10 years in the workforce the unemployment rate was 6-9% nationwide and the state i lived in much higher. I spent more days unemployed then employed for my first 10 working years and with no medical insurance. And never thought i was due anything. Then decided to take control of my future moved 2000 miles lost a couple more jobs, then went back to school 40 hours a week plus working full time. And started improving my life. I ended up making 6 figures for many years as a blue collar hourly worker and my total taxes paid were around 26% total during that time. My X-GF was from Canada which has socialized medicine which seems good for the average ailments. But when her father got prostate cancer he had the choice of 1 specialist that was hours away. Who knows how good he was as they really weren't going to fire him as who would take his place. It took 3 months to get his first appointment and the others weren't a lot quicker. And no second opinion unless he paid for it himself. But it was paid for. She was happy she was now in the US and had access to this medical care. Our government could be far less generous to pharmaceutical/medical lobbyists And we need to do more to change that. But i have seen no perfect systems in my life. Especially the bigger they get it seems.

 

[ripriot]

The government in those countries is the "Single Payer" and the citizens of those countries are the singular pool that would constitute the insured. The government still collects the taxes that fund the health care system and negotiates prices on pharmaceuticals even though the Care is provided by private institutions. The issue in the US is that the Care providers and the insurance companies (which act as for profit middle men and would cease to exist in a Single Payer system) would see profits cut and have no incentive to go that direction. The government is still required to make these systems function as they currently do.

Much more to it then what can be covered in thread post. I will say this. Swiss, Germany, & Israel always score high on medical innovation every year and have universal coverage. Our population is more then 220 million people than any of those countries. I think incentives can be found like other countries have achieved.

 

[Prada]

In the US you’re not a patient……….., you’re a customer.