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Androgen receptor down-regulation and its effects on muscle growth. Short vs Long Cycles.

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LK3

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For a clear mind, just think logically - how many training units per muscle group are we able to do in 6 weeks? especially when it comes to advanced lifters 6-10? how much hypertrophy will occur after one training unit? after all, these are not the amounts that will give us a phenomenal increase. Moreover, everyone who trains longer knows that in order to maintain new gains, the body must enter a certain type of homeostasis and accept fiber overgrowth, otherwise we will quickly lose what we have gained, so even if after 6 weeks there was only anti-catabolism without anabolism, it is still beneficial was to use this period as a time for homestasis.

If you already have short cycles, it is on the principle that Dante Trudel gave, i.e. 8 weeks blast 2-3 weeks crusie and not because of diminishing gains or health issues (because bodybuilding has nothing to do with health), but because very intensive training through period longer than 8 weeks + large doses of food will fatigue our body, so we give short time to rest for the nervous and digestive systems.

This is my opinion.

while much of what the op posted in here get kookie bro, there is much more to training and gaining the just drugs.

i feel the biggest component is cns. this is rarely talked about amount juice heads. creating new nerve innervations is what builds strength. mantaining them and making more is how we can change the body and add real growth especially when we combine training that takes advantage of this with diet and gear.

it takes 6-8 weeks in general to create these new nerve innervations.

if take all this into account and really follow dc principals it all kinda works. as you blast, creating them and cruise allowing the recovery process to happen then blast again to create more.

drugs are used to support training by and large if all done right.
drugs also work as make up basically. due to creatine and water load and manipulating water under the skin. this is why for contest prep you load up. the drugs at that point are like muscle make up, making you big n full n pretty.

first you gotta put the mass on. that is done with food, heavy weights and drugs to support that to some degree.

this is why you see guys who have been doing this for 20+ years able to walk around with impressive amounts of mass on just trt doses.

cns due to adaptation becomes more efficient with time so it takes less to support the new inervations and if you have eaten to put the mass on and stick with the gym even when cruising you end up with a big old dude who is strong as shit and that isnt going anywhere as the work has created those new set points.
 

pickapeck

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For a clear mind, just think logically - how many training units per muscle group are we able to do in 6 weeks? especially when it comes to advanced lifters 6-10? how much hypertrophy will occur after one training unit? after all, these are not the amounts that will give us a phenomenal increase. Moreover, everyone who trains longer knows that in order to maintain new gains, the body must enter a certain type of homeostasis and accept fiber overgrowth, otherwise we will quickly lose what we have gained, so even if after 6 weeks there was only anti-catabolism without anabolism, it is still beneficial was to use this period as a time for homestasis.

If you already have short cycles, it is on the principle that Dante Trudel gave, i.e. 8 weeks blast 2-3 weeks crusie and not because of diminishing gains or health issues (because bodybuilding has nothing to do with health), but because very intensive training through period longer than 8 weeks + large doses of food will fatigue our body, so we give short time to rest for the nervous and digestive systems.

This is my opinion.
Genetic variability... Explain Kevan Levrone. Fooker would be 200 lbs soft and then 8 weeks later he would be 240. 6 weeks after that he would be on stage at 242 shreaded. So.. he put on 50 lbs of some sort of lean as fck mass in 3 months. Me personally with my shit ass genetics at 50 years old I went from 195 leanish to 230 in 6 weeks. Took 3 weeks off and then cut to a lean 218. I am freaking avvvverrrage.
 

luki7788

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Genetic variability... Explain Kevan Levrone. Fooker would be 200 lbs soft and then 8 weeks later he would be 240. 6 weeks after that he would be on stage at 242 shreaded. So.. he put on 50 lbs of some sort of lean as fck mass in 3 months. Me personally with my shit ass genetics at 50 years old I went from 195 leanish to 230 in 6 weeks. Took 3 weeks off and then cut to a lean 218. I am freaking avvvverrrage.
you confuse building new muscle mass with regaining what it used to be - these are two different things and this is where the muscle is working
 

Stewie

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Ribosome biogenesis is where the money is at for hypertrophy. Some individuals are blessed with high translation capacity, some mediocre, other's not so much.

If we're talking ester hydrolysis, PDE7B (phosphodiesterase 7B) select SNP variants is the gates keeper to bioavailability of AAS.

Lean muscle tissue, CAGn repeat lengths are considered the genetic determinant in this department.
 

pickapeck

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you confuse building new muscle mass with regaining what it used to be - these are two different things and this is where the muscle is working
It's still 50 lbs of tissue in 16 weeks. That's the point. No confusion.
 

sazo75

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Go off or go back onto your TRT. From my experiences the guys who were on TRT even prior to ever running a real cycle and with TRT breaks still have amazing results. Example picture below of a TRT based person after 6 weeks done right. Depending on the ester is your time off. Trust me on the carnitine though, even if on right now. Add it, both forms suggested above. It will feel like you just mega dosed your cycle.

Edit; Pic wont attach

I read your Deca article and found it interesting, do you still suggest a 6 week cycle for Deca since most people would say it's a slow acting hormone, or would you go for a bit longer on the Deca? Also same thing as far as staying off, should you be off for 6 weeks after Deca or even longer since it's a slow/long acting hormone?
 

Taeian clark

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I read your Deca article and found it interesting, do you still suggest a 6 week cycle for Deca since most people would say it's a slow acting hormone, or would you go for a bit longer on the Deca? Also same thing as far as staying off, should you be off for 6 weeks after Deca or even longer since it's a slow/long acting hormone?

Yes still 6 weeks. As its still active little bit past your last shot as well. All my followers doing such foijg every which way still only go to week 6 even it being a longer ester. Gains just come to a halt for them.

As for time off I orefer 5 to 6 weeks.
 

Swifto

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Yes still 6 weeks. As its still active little bit past your last shot as well. All my followers doing such foijg every which way still only go to week 6 even it being a longer ester. Gains just come to a halt for them.

As for time off I orefer 5 to 6 weeks.

So if it takes 5x half life for androgens levels to fall to baseline, your effectively telling people to run 6 week AAS cycles using long esters like Nandrolone Decanoate, then take 5-6 weeks off before starting again.

Androgen levels will only have been baseline for 1-2 weeks before starting your silly 6 week cycle again.

That is not enough time for health markers to return to normal.

You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Its been pointed out numerous times here in your short stay of 3 days and by respected Dr. Dean St. Mart on social media.
 

Taeian clark

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So if it takes 5x half life for androgens levels to fall to baseline, your effectively telling people to run 6 week AAS cycles using long esters like Nandrolone Decanoate, then take 5-6 weeks off before starting again.

Androgen levels will only have been baseline for 1-2 weeks before starting your silly 6 week cycle again.

That is not enough time for health markers to return to normal.

You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Its been pointed out numerous times here in your short stay of 3 days and by respected Dr. Dean St. Mart on social media.

It isn't about recovery or health markers when one is choosing to run two cycles short cycles back to back.. same deal when someone runs a 16 week cycle... atleast they have a peroid under lower androgen levels then a pure 16 weeks straight or so on. If someone runs 1 6 week cycle. Or 1 20 week cycle that is their decision the same decision if they choose to run any androgen peroid. And using supplements that can improve health while on and or after. We are talking cycle length here on effectiveness on results. Id rather see someone run 1 short cycle and call it then a 12 weeker.
 

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It isn't about recovery or health markers when one is choosing to run two cycles short cycles back to back.. same deal when someone runs a 16 week cycle... atleast they have a peroid under lower androgen levels then a pure 16 weeks straight or so on. If someone runs 1 6 week cycle. Or 1 20 week cycle that is their decision the same decision if they choose to run any androgen peroid. And using supplements that can improve health while on and or after. We are talking cycle length here on effectiveness on results. Id rather see someone run 1 short cycle and call it then a 12 weeker.

So after the 6 weeks, you state to take 5-6 weeks off. Then what happens? They do another 6 week cycle using the same compounds or different AAS?

So gains will stop after 6 weeks, even though androgen levels are still high for a further 4-5 weeks?
 

Taeian clark

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What happens after 5 to 6 weeks is up to the user. Why are you asking me. Do another cycle. Come off. Whatever they would like to do. Same.for same.compound or different aas.

And androgen levels are still high for 4 to 5 weeks. Term high is relative. 50mg released during day 40 as example and then 15mg by day 50 is still active. Still.higher then normal but not high in relevance to what your body was peaking at. And of course this is all relevant to dose as well. Not looking for hormome to be fully cleared if one is talking in just terms of results.
 

Swifto

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What happens after 5 to 6 weeks is up to the user. Why are you asking me. Do another cycle. Come off. Whatever they would like to do. Same.for same.compound or different aas.

And androgen levels are still high for 4 to 5 weeks. Term high is relative. 50mg released during day 40 as example and then 15mg by day 50 is still active. Still.higher then normal but not high in relevance to what your body was peaking at. And of course this is all relevant to dose as well. Not looking for hormome to be fully cleared if one is talking in just terms of results.

Just pointing out you dont understand basic pharmacology as well as other principles you seem to be a self proclaimed "expert" in.
 

Stewie

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Just pointing out you dont understand basic pharmacology as well as other principles you seem to be a self proclaimed "expert" in.

Agreed.
 

Taeian clark

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Just pointing out you dont understand basic pharmacology as well as other principles you seem to be a self proclaimed "expert" in.
Thanks for the vague reply.

Stating somebody doesn't understand something with no basis just a blank statement is always of high value.

I don't understand basic pharmacology because I said allowing said drug to get to a low enough level for a spef peroid of time equals I do not understand anything here.

Would be lovely to.hear your exact detail on your statement .

I mean do you even have a clue what I'm basing my time frame on here for low/lower blood levels of a spef drug.

Is your claim the body cannot make.changes on multiple different levels or areas with the drug still active ? Or active at a spef dose. Myostatin as fast as 2 weeks after cessation of test e returns to.baseline. androgen receptor sensitivity showed alteration in as little as days on long ester steroids with increasing or decreasing values.

So please do enlighten me on your statement.
 

Swifto

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Thanks for the vague reply.

Stating somebody doesn't understand something with no basis just a blank statement is always of high value.

I don't understand basic pharmacology because I said allowing said drug to get to a low enough level for a spef peroid of time equals I do not understand anything here.

Would be lovely to.hear your exact detail on your statement .

I mean do you even have a clue what I'm basing my time frame on here for low/lower blood levels of a spef drug.

Is your claim the body cannot make.changes on multiple different levels or areas with the drug still active ? Or active at a spef dose. Myostatin as fast as 2 weeks after cessation of test e returns to.baseline. androgen receptor sensitivity showed alteration in as little as days on long ester steroids with increasing or decreasing values.

So please do enlighten me on your statement.

I have better things to do today than go backwards and forwards with a silly little fraud like you. You should really get out more. You reply to posts in seconds, write essays and dont address the points raised anyway.

You've deleted videos as they're embarrassing and then tried to get threads here deleted which show what a moron you really are.

I'm glad people see through your nonsense.
 

emeric delczeg

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I will stay neutral in this conversation, however is all depend on how much androgen receptors mRNA is produced, the increase or decrease of the mRNAs it will effect the regulation. Peace.
 

Bio

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I'm not going to delete the threads because nothing within this thread is against the rules. People post here and others respond. This forum does send a message if wants to by self moderating. The members here have soaked up the wealth of knowledge that exists and continues to grow. I am going to lock this thread now. The message sent is clear, so no reason to beat a dead horse! I will say this, debate the guy on his other forms of social media but don't stoop to just personal attacks. We're all better than that.
 
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