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Androgen receptor down-regulation and its effects on muscle growth. Short vs Long Cycles.

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Love_to_Bodybuild

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Taeian clark is the reason youve only done one or two cycles in the last four years because of health markers being out of range, Cholesterol, kidney , liver enzymes ?
 

Taeian clark

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Taeian clark is the reason youve only done one or two cycles in the last four years because of health markers being out of range, Cholesterol, kidney , liver enzymes ?
No everything has always been grossly unremarkable. When I was younger I loved it I was excited. Then past many few years has just been more daunting. And once off and am recovered I just feel so great. I mean gear never made me feel bad.. besides test mentally.. but being off and recovered everything just feels so right and balanced mentally physically etc in all areas.
Opposite of how I use to feel ten yrs ago. Loved feeling or being on.
 

FrancisK

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No everything has always been grossly unremarkable. When I was younger I loved it I was excited. Then past many few years has just been more daunting. And once off and am recovered I just feel so great. I mean gear never made me feel bad.. besides test mentally.. but being off and recovered everything just feels so right and balanced mentally physically etc in all areas.
Opposite of how I use to feel ten yrs ago. Loved feeling or being on.


Fuck that’s kinda where I’m at with it myself, juice starting to not be worth the squeeze. My severely diminishing returns coincided with my decisions to switch from cycling to blasting and cruising....
 

Love_to_Bodybuild

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No everything has always been grossly unremarkable. When I was younger I loved it I was excited. Then past many few years has just been more daunting. And once off and am recovered I just feel so great. I mean gear never made me feel bad.. besides test mentally.. but being off and recovered everything just feels so right and balanced mentally physically etc in all areas.
Opposite of how I use to feel ten yrs ago. Loved feeling or being on.

Health matters most,

the issue some people have is, once training like a beast, as Dorian put it having a gun to your head, and if you cant get another rep I shoot your family, once you come off its easy to keep training like this then to drastically reduce training intensity, this is the reason Dorian got injured

He would raise hormone levels , and train hit for 5 weeks, then take a 2-3 week break and completely come off hormones. During this time is when youre supposed to go lighter than you could go

I know back before I was on trt when I started doing two cycles a year, I would train super hard in pct to keep what Ive gained

In TRT its different, and is the time to heal up any injuries, by

1. Not doing ANYTHING that aggravates it
2. Doing physical therapy on it, this can mean high reps, stretching, foam rolling, tennis ball massage, ficton massage, active release therapy, massage

so its probably a good idea to back off the weight 10 % more than what one could do during this off time, or injuries wont heal, and in the long run itll set you back further

Dorian said while he was competing, he didnt know how to train 80 %, , he said its zero or one hundred percent for me. Thankfully, I know how to back off down to 80% . There so much you can learn from champions like Dorian , who made that mistake, and I took advantage of this knowledge and apply it to training so I keep my joints healthy

Now I recently took a four week trt dose about 120 mgs per week, and kept training hard on chest and arms, well my left elbow is rehabbing because I pushed it too hard, so I think what Dorian says is instinctual about training at one hundred percent, and if a person has joint issues, they probably need to reduce weight, and intensity to 80 %

its like the analogy of us being machines, if we run at 100 % all the time, we will wear out , it takes maintenance sometimes, and sure you'll lose fullness, water, from being off, but not actually muscle. yes that muscle will stay on a trt dose, and give your joints a break, your still in the gym training, and the reduced weight is enough to maintain all of your muscle

it feels awesome to be big; however, this is a very materialistic thing to do, and if you really valued your opinion over others , and you truly do not enjoy this degree of risk to your health, then you would not use as much, or find a way to do it and be healthier, as we must always improve on our health, once it starts looking troublesome

its like someone saying something you dont like about you, if you truley put your opinion first, you wouldnt care what they think and you wouldnt get stressed at all about what persons opinion you put very little importance on
 

b-boy

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C'mon.... This is a troll attempting at creating traffic to his garbage site. Just leave it.

Those foolish enough to follow this kind of behavior will get what they deserve.
In his defense he NEVER mentioned ANYTHING about his website, people in this thread did.
If we are going to rip people apart let's at least be fair about it and not make shit up.

I
 

IronLion2

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In his defense he NEVER mentioned ANYTHING about his website, people in this thread did.
If we are going to rip people apart let's at least be fair about it and not make shit up.

I

.... Yeah bc ppl know he has an entire outlet full of this crap that he's just copying and pasting. Google it and where does it take you?
 

hawkmoon

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What a minute....

Is this the same Taeian that years ago on another forum was arguing with me that iodine was the key to hair loss prevention and that the high consumption by Japanese is why they don't go bald?

While I was/am living in Japan surrounded by bald men?
 

RDS

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ester length must surely be a factor, no? Like if you're running a ton of EQ or something like that your levels are still building after 6 weeks.

Dean St Mart did a podcast on Think Big Bodybuilding and, if I understood correctly (which is 50/50), he was talking about how it's the levels building that does the fun stuff.
 

KillerStack

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And elite powerlifter Chris Duffin who I also told him to use the supplement carnitine, and out of nowhere his weight had shot up 7lbs after it had been stagnant for a long time and also saw an immense boost to strength as well. So even on top athletes the simple addition of carnitine lead to mind-blowing effects.

I never heard of you but you don't happen to be the one who put Chris on that massive roid and peptide cycle years back?
 

Elvia1023

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I think it's pretty obvious why he has just suddenly started posting here. He may not have mentioned it directly but he has indirectly so many times. People do look for the worst in others which is sad but it's pretty obvious to everyone on here. Although I couldn't care less if someone wants to get business. If they post good stuff then great and if they get business as a result of that I am happy for them. So that doesn't bother me in the slightest and I want people to do well especially if they have good intentions. Although I personally think it's transparant what is going on here.

Regarding the thread I see guys stating they done short cycles and had issues and well that's obvious because they never had any breaks. I have known a few guys over the years to do the likes of 6 on 3-4 off and repeat. Maybe even 8 on and 3-4 off. Some guys even do 2 off. Fact is once long esters are built up they could take up to 6 weeks to leave your system. Now some may use long esters for the first few weeks then go onto short esters but even so they could still take approx 2 weeks to fully go. Even if you done it so they were gone after 1 week if you are only having a few weeks off it's no real recovery. You are essentially staying on all year and whilst the gains will be great it's a slippery slope in regards to health. No shit doing multiple short cycles with minimal breaks will work.

Now even with health in mind and taking longer breaks this notion that you can somehow maintain all gains is nonsense. Plus we all know maintaining is easy compared to gaining but this is different. You don't gain 20 pounds in a few weeks and come off everything and keep it all months after unless you aren't that developed to begin with and ate and trained like shite to begin with. The OP going on about gaining 22 pounds and losing about 1 pound even after no training or eating properly is complete bullshit. Like his magical protocol somehow made him keep all of his gains. Again I am not stating what he has posted isn't hugely effective but it's also nonsense. He says he wants to get more developed so morons take his advice more seriously. Building a good body is not rocket science but many on here can see through bullshit. I don't mean the protocol but just the talking around it.
 

Stewie

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ester length must surely be a factor, no? Like if you're running a ton of EQ or something like that your levels are still building after 6 weeks.

Dean St Mart did a podcast on Think Big Bodybuilding and, if I understood correctly (which is 50/50), he was talking about how it's the levels building that does the fun stuff.

He'd argue with Dean St. Martin, PhD trying to undermine Dean's creditability in poor attempts to portray himself as some academic scholar in kinetic and dynamic pharmacology. Scott Howell, PhD has debunked this trolls lack of intellect on cellular regulation.
 

pickapeck

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Tbh doubt ill be on till then. The last hell.. 4 plus years I've been lucky to do a cycle or 2. Only reason I am thinking to get back on is to get a little bigger for more credibility in the eyes of well.. morons really.
I went off for a 3 year period and a about 10 year period. Both times it took about a year to fully recover. I started using at 27 so my HPTA was already imprinted. You started much younger so not sure what kind of recovery you can make. If you recover then great. You'll know you are over it when you look at juicers and think it's just greesy kids stuff. Stay tuned though b/c between 45 and 50 you may want a boost again like I did.
 

pickapeck

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Regarding the thread I see guys stating they done short cycles and had issues and well that's obvious because they never had any breaks. I have known a few guys over the years to do the likes of 6 on 3-4 off and repeat. Maybe even 8 on and 3-4 off. Some guys even do 2 off. Fact is once long esters are built up they could take up to 6 weeks to leave your system. Now some may use long esters for the first few weeks then go onto short esters but even so they could still take approx 2 weeks to fully go. Even if you done it so they were gone after 1 week if you are only having a few weeks off it's no real recovery. You are essentially staying on all year and whilst the gains will be great it's a slippery slope in regards to health. No shit doing multiple short cycles with minimal breaks will work.
The 3-4 week off period is not to recover HPTA. It is to reduce toxicity and return major health markers. Try it and do bloodwork. Eventually you can still end up burning out but it worked for me. This "full recovery" brologic will stifle your view until you investigate for yourself. Like I have said in many threads, both times I decided to go off to recover and get on with my life it took over a year to fully recover including my HPTA. Pnce I did it in 6 months. After even cycling with time on = time off it's likely going to take more time than expected to fully recover. That doesn't mean it's an either or scenario. There are more ways on earth to play the game using observation, the notebook, reading of quality literature, blodwork and regular health check-ups.
 

Elvia1023

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The 3-4 week off period is not to recover HPTA. It is to reduce toxicity and return major health markers. Try it and do bloodwork. Eventually you can still end up burning out but it worked for me. This "full recovery" brologic will stifle your view until you investigate for yourself. Like I have said in many threads, both times I decided to go off to recover and get on with my life it took over a year to fully recover including my HPTA. Pnce I did it in 6 months. After even cycling with time on = time off it's likely going to take more time than expected to fully recover. That doesn't mean it's an either or scenario. There are more ways on earth to play the game using observation, the notebook, reading of quality literature, blodwork and regular health check-ups.

Of course. I wasn't stating you personally done it to recover HPTA but I know many who think if they come off for 4 weeks it somehow counts and they are some how recovering. I have even known people not to inject long esters for 2 weeks thinking that was a sufficient break :eek::D There are many who run HCG and PCT drugs for approx 1 month and pretty much go straight back on thinking that is recovering as well. They are obviously just fooling themselves. Many start with time on/off then their cycles get longer then their rest periods get shorter then they may try shorter cycles with next to no breaks. I done exactly the same myself and many do simply due to the obvious fact it is good being on and crap coming off (after being on). I also know that even if guys take regular time off they eventually stop recovering optimally and TRT is the best option as we get older.

Although I also know that for many 4 weeks is not long enough to get health markers back. Well it is for most health markers (liver etc) but for the likes of lipids it can take longer for most people. Moreover even if they recover all health markers they are jumping back on so over the course of a year they are in the red most of the time. It maybe better than just blasting all year but still they are fooling themselves if they think coming off for 4 weeks is somehow preventing them for experiencing health issues. The thing with health issues is many won't experience them until much later anyway regardless what they do. I know people who have run grams for years straight and felt fine and had no issues but it will obviously come back to haunt them later in life.

I have tried most things and I experimented on myself a lot over the years. I have come to the conclusion that in regards to long term results and health that the simple blast and cruise is optimal for me. Details vary but cruises are always legit cruises as in 150mg test so I don't add 400mg primo and 200mg mast telling myself that's TRT. If guys want to cruise on high doses that's totally fine and we can do whatever we want. In the past I would run very long cycles so I know personally gains don't suddenly just stop at 6-8 weeks.

I am not the type to just come off and not train like many do and I am sure I will be training frequently all of my life. So that's why I prefer to just cruise between cycles as I know I can maintain well on that. My blasts will change as I get older as well and they are already much lower than a few years ago. Toxicity is always on my mind and I like to feel good so orals are used sparingly but I still love them but I am sure they will appear less and less the older I get. When older I will most probably do 6-8 weeks blasts and 6-8 week cruise with my blasts being very sensible.
 

Love_to_Bodybuild

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I'd say if cholestrol gets too out of range to take lipitor while blasting

Otherwise yes the four weeks off after five or six weeks is better and one can maintain their muscle in true trt doses easily in these four weeks

Time off is the best to get lipids in check although since many of love being very muscular, it's best to nip the issue off at the bud, before it begins
 

strongerlife

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I'd say if cholestrol gets too out of range to take lipitor while blasting

Otherwise yes the four weeks off after five or six weeks is better and one can maintain their muscle in true trt doses easily in these four weeks

Time off is the best to get lipids in check although since many of love being very muscular, it's best to nip the issue off at the bud, before it begins
So you blast 6 weeks then go off/cruise for 4 and go back on?
 

luki7788

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For a clear mind, just think logically - how many training units per muscle group are we able to do in 6 weeks? especially when it comes to advanced lifters 6-10? how much hypertrophy will occur after one training unit? after all, these are not the amounts that will give us a phenomenal increase. Moreover, everyone who trains longer knows that in order to maintain new gains, the body must enter a certain type of homeostasis and accept fiber overgrowth, otherwise we will quickly lose what we have gained, so even if after 6 weeks there was only anti-catabolism without anabolism, it is still beneficial was to use this period as a time for homestasis.

If you already have short cycles, it is on the principle that Dante Trudel gave, i.e. 8 weeks blast 2-3 weeks crusie and not because of diminishing gains or health issues (because bodybuilding has nothing to do with health), but because very intensive training through period longer than 8 weeks + large doses of food will fatigue our body, so we give short time to rest for the nervous and digestive systems.

This is my opinion.
 

Taeian clark

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For a clear mind, just think logically - how many training units per muscle group are we able to do in 6 weeks? especially when it comes to advanced lifters 6-10? how much hypertrophy will occur after one training unit? after all, these are not the amounts that will give us a phenomenal increase. Moreover, everyone who trains longer knows that in order to maintain new gains, the body must enter a certain type of homeostasis and accept fiber overgrowth, otherwise we will quickly lose what we have gained, so even if after 6 weeks there was only anti-catabolism without anabolism, it is still beneficial was to use this period as a time for homestasis.

If you already have short cycles, it is on the principle that Dante Trudel gave, i.e. 8 weeks blast 2-3 weeks crusie and not because of diminishing gains or health issues (because bodybuilding has nothing to do with health), but because very intensive training through period longer than 8 weeks + large doses of food will fatigue our body, so we give short time to rest for the nervous and digestive systems.

This is my opinion.

Of course this is your opinion which your entitled to. But many others opinions feel differently which is ok too. Such as the fellas here who have commented already feeling that gains do stop and they progressed better starting and stopping in a short cycle fashion. Even without the factor of soldifiy gains as your opinion.

As I said what your stating above is fully an opinion. Doesn't mean its right or false. You have yours which is the above and then many other successful fellas also feel the opposite as you. They gain more doing day 6 on few weeks off repeat vs 10 weeks on and 4 weeks of maintaining gains. Some very respectable members here have already stated they feel they grow bettee over all with shorter cycles. B boy. Emeric.

This is your opinion I respect what you feel worked better for you but it is obv not the case for everyone in this thread either.

Thanks for sharing though.
 

jeroendebleser

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For a clear mind, just think logically - how many training units per muscle group are we able to do in 6 weeks? especially when it comes to advanced lifters 6-10? how much hypertrophy will occur after one training unit? after all, these are not the amounts that will give us a phenomenal increase. Moreover, everyone who trains longer knows that in order to maintain new gains, the body must enter a certain type of homeostasis and accept fiber overgrowth, otherwise we will quickly lose what we have gained, so even if after 6 weeks there was only anti-catabolism without anabolism, it is still beneficial was to use this period as a time for homestasis.

If you already have short cycles, it is on the principle that Dante Trudel gave, i.e. 8 weeks blast 2-3 weeks crusie and not because of diminishing gains or health issues (because bodybuilding has nothing to do with health), but because very intensive training through period longer than 8 weeks + large doses of food will fatigue our body, so we give short time to rest for the nervous and digestive systems.

This is my opinion.

Fully agreed. I also like that you said out loud 'because bodybuilding has nothing to do with health' because a lot of people seem to think they can have their cake and eat it too so to speak.
 
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