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Androgen receptor down-regulation and its effects on muscle growth. Short vs Long Cycles.

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pickapeck

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You've provided data that isn't applicable to young men or trained athletes. Your "data" is on older men (60yrs+) with a tiny sample size of 12, including only 7 which received TE treatment.

Second, who does a TRT dose cycle and then doesn't change their diet or training for 6 moths?

You're argument "AR down regulation falls off a cliff and so do gains in muscle mass after 6 weeks" is nonsense.

I'll refer to the well known 1996 study thats often cited due to being the most applicable to us bodybuilders:

The Effects of Supraphysiologic Doses of Testosterone on Muscle Size and Strength in Normal Men

Full paper: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199607043350101

600mg of TE given to healthy men (not 60+, untrained) over 10 weeks. What did it find?

Bodyweight increased from 76kg to 82kg (6kg gained)

Fat Free Mass (FFM) increased from 65kg to 71kg (6kg gained)

Bench Press increased from 97kg to 119kg (22kg increase)

Squat increased from 102kg to 140kg (38kg increase)

Hows all that possible if your little theory of "cycles become less effective after 6 weeks"?

Sorry to blow a hole in your article, but you've cherry picked and written an entire article on data thats hardly relevant here. I know because I've done it too.
The study you posted does not address androgen receptor expression, up/down regulation at all. It only reports baseline and at 10 weeks. Therefore does not prove or disprove that alternative hypothesis. To more closely address the current hypothesis would be ti cite studeis that demonstrate a different androgen receptor modulation pattern such as increases lasting 8 weeks before down regulation via myostatin as Ir ecall seeing some years ago.
 

thethinker48

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Again thanks for another nonsensical reply. Your wrong but I cannot say why or as to what in detail on what your are wrong about. Or post any science to back it. But your wrong.

Thanks again.

:unsure:

What the hell does mean

Not sure if this is a satire
 

MyNameIsJeff

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Again thanks for another nonsensical reply. Your wrong but I cannot say why or as to what in detail on what your are wrong about. Or post any science to back it. But your wrong.

Thanks again.
It has already been explained to you in this thread why your claims are wrong. You are just too low IQ to understand the counterarguments. You also don't seem to understand the definition of the word 'science', your use of it makes no sense.
 

Taeian clark

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The study you posted does not address androgen receptor expression, up/down regulation at all. It only reports baseline and at 10 weeks. Therefore does not prove or disprove that alternative hypothesis. To more closely address the current hypothesis would be ti cite studeis that demonstrate a different androgen receptor modulation pattern such as increases lasting 8 weeks before down regulation via myostatin as Ir ecall seeing some years ago.
Not sure what study your reading. As I posted multiple to cross reference. Neither of the important ones were ten weeks.
 

Taeian clark

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It has already been explained to you in this thread why your claims are wrong. You are just too low IQ to understand the counterarguments. You also don't seem to understand the definition of the word 'science', your use of it makes no sense.
Thanks again for the very vague reply. We told you and you cant understand. Yet no studies were posted just opinions.
 

Creation

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Tartate and acetyl 2 to 3 g each.

Another person tricked !
word this stuff is too cheap to not give it a try. I am very intrigued about adding T3 to help upregulate as well
 

Love_to_Bodybuild

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Yes cycling intensity and hormones, 5-6 weeks on and at least 3-4 weeks off, obviously you can do two months or longer off

so l carnitine taking after exercise to help recovery after exercise, two grams

best to take carnitine in between cycles, or during a cycle or any of these?
 

IronLion2

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C'mon.... This is a troll attempting at creating traffic to his garbage site. Just leave it.

Those foolish enough to follow this kind of behavior will get what they deserve.
 

Taeian clark

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Yes cycling intensity and hormones, 5-6 weeks on and at least 3-4 weeks off, obviously you can do two months or longer off

so l carnitine taking after exercise to help recovery after exercise, two grams

best to take carnitine in between cycles, or during a cycle or any of these?
Taken non stop as you are going for a spef goal I suggest then a break. Hence doing short cycles back to back.
 

Taeian clark

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word this stuff is too cheap to not give it a try. I am very intrigued about adding T3 to help upregulate as well
The carnitine will be bigger hit trust me. Like I said have had multiple elites use it and see immense results. Nothing to lose. You can buy a tub of it powder wise for pennies basically probably so.

I'm gonna be rich soon with how much I've mentioned my site though. Billion dollars in the bank.
 

pickapeck

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Not sure what study your reading. As I posted multiple to cross reference. Neither of the important ones were ten weeks.
I was talking about the one Swifto posted.
 

Taeian clark

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I was talking about the one Swifto posted.
Wasn't sure as everyone seems to be agasint using invalid studies and not even able to comphrend the ones I've posted. But glad you seen the huge fallacy that has been posted refuting the topic.
 

maldorf

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Short cycle theories have been discussed on this board for over a decade
On another board from 2005. Nothing new. I do agree that long cycles are not that productive in the later weeks.

 

pickapeck

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6 week on/6 week off cycles were just a yoyo ride for me back in the day. They went into the dumpster pretty quick. Later I did the following pattern which worked very well: 8 on/3 off/8 on/3 off/ 8 on. In the end they put me on TRT since I stopped recovering after 2 of those stints. AAS use is really a shit show from top to bottom. Stay on and you are fucked. cycle on and off and do good for a year or so and then yoyo in and out of hypogonadism and the next cycle. Eventually it's blast and cruise... TRT and blast and so on. The end result is a long long recovery only to maybe recover HPTA and end up maybe 10-15 lbs higher than you were when you started with a hand full of hair loss and a gyno on one or both sides and if you were really a fucktard maybe some kidney and or heart damage. Alternatively you are on TRT and tempted to blast here and there until whenever forced to stop.
 

Taeian clark

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6 week on/6 week off cycles were just a yoyo ride for me back in the day. They went into the dumpster pretty quick. Later I did the following pattern which worked very well: 8 on/3 off/8 on/3 off/ 8 on. In the end they put me on TRT since I stopped recovering after 2 of those stints. AAS use is really a shit show from top to bottom. Stay on and you are fucked. cycle on and off and do good for a year or so and then yoyo in and out of hypogonadism and the next cycle. Eventually it's blast and cruise... TRT and blast and so on. The end result is a long long recovery only to maybe recover HPTA and end up maybe 10-15 lbs higher than you were when you started with a hand full of hair loss and a gyno on one or both sides and if you were really a fucktard maybe some kidney and or heart damage. Alternatively you are on TRT and tempted to blast here and there until whenever forced to stop.
Sounds like you got pretty unlucky there which obv bappens to immense amounts of fellas.

I had immense hsirloss which I recovered and help many other fellas recover. So that was a side I too suffered bad.

As for recovery I've always been good myself but doesn't mean I might not be obv one day. But started at 17 now 32 lots of yoyoing too but also lots of year plus fully off peroids. Love being off just feel much better over all
 

Sides

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6 week on/6 week off cycles were just a yoyo ride for me back in the day. They went into the dumpster pretty quick. Later I did the following pattern which worked very well: 8 on/3 off/8 on/3 off/ 8 on. In the end they put me on TRT since I stopped recovering after 2 of those stints. AAS use is really a shit show from top to bottom. Stay on and you are fucked. cycle on and off and do good for a year or so and then yoyo in and out of hypogonadism and the next cycle. Eventually it's blast and cruise... TRT and blast and so on. The end result is a long long recovery only to maybe recover HPTA and end up maybe 10-15 lbs higher than you were when you started with a hand full of hair loss and a gyno on one or both sides and if you were really a fucktard maybe some kidney and or heart damage. Alternatively you are on TRT and tempted to blast here and there until whenever forced to stop.

Sadly, this is the conclusion I've come to after 28 years of AAS use. If you told me this when I was 48 or 50 I wouldn't have believed it, had mostly only good experiences to relate. But at 52, now I have to finally admit that no matter how much or how little gas I put in the tank, I'm not enjoying the ride like I used to.
 

pickapeck

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Sounds like you got pretty unlucky there which obv bappens to immense amounts of fellas.

I had immense hsirloss which I recovered and help many other fellas recover. So that was a side I too suffered bad.

As for recovery I've always been good myself but doesn't mean I might not be obv one day. But started at 17 now 32 lots of yoyoing too but also lots of year plus fully off peroids. Love being off just feel much better over all
I'm just shy of 60 and recovered until I was 57. See where you are in 25 years.
 

pickapeck

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Sadly, this is the conclusion I've come to after 28 years of AAS use. If you told me this when I was 48 or 50 I wouldn't have believed it, had mostly only good experiences to relate. But at 52, now I have to finally admit that no matter how much or how little gas I put in the tank, I'm not enjoying the ride like I used to.
Well I'm getting old as dirt. A little oil greases the old gears. We've already built the beast. Just enjoy teh ride now the best we can. I get checked 1-2 times a year and bloods done at least twice a year. Best thing we can do. Thankfully I still appear to be healthy aside from a littel rust around the edges.
 

Taeian clark

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I'm just shy of 60 and recovered until I was 57. See where you are in 25 years.
Tbh doubt ill be on till then. The last hell.. 4 plus years I've been lucky to do a cycle or 2. Only reason I am thinking to get back on is to get a little bigger for more credibility in the eyes of well.. morons really.
 
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