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Anybody on HRT for more than 2 years constant ... questions

SIR-LOIN

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I have been on HRT straight for about 1.5 years (200 mg / 2 weeks). A couple of times I have upped it to no more than 500 / wk for about 8 weeks, and once added 75 mg tren ace / ED for 6 weeks to prepare for competition. Before HRT, I had about 2 cycles a year max 15 weeks, usually 10 weeks.

My doc says there's no need to "come off" of HRT as long as I don't want kids anymore (I'm 42, no thanks). But, seems like my hair is thinning more than before, and I feel like the prescribed dosage doesn't have the effectiveness it did, also wonder if I don't come off, will it take more and more to get the same effect.

Just wonder what some of your experences are, and if you recommend coming off now and then and why?
 
I have been on HRT for 5 years. But have not taken the departures that you have, so I am not sure how to answer your questions. I will say that any androgenic anabolic chemical will cause the speed of hair loss to increase.

If you don't feel right, go to an endo and have your levels checked. You should be somewhere between 600 to 1000 ng/dl to be at optimum health per the HRT recommendations. If you are there, then the problem may be somewhere else.
 
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I have been on HRT for 5 years. But have not taken the departures that you have, so I am not sure how to answer your questions. I will say that any androgenic anabolic chemical will cause the speed of hair loss to increase.

If you don't feel right, go to an endo and have your levels checked. You should be somewhere between 600 to 1000 ng/dl to be at optimum health per the HRT recommendations. If you are there, then the problem may be somewhere else.

I've been on 7 years now and no hair loss on the head. But I have grown a lot more hair on my body than I did before.
 
You cant come off. Thats why its hrt. Its not a bridge. Once you chose hrt its pernament. Restoring your natty levels would take an insane amount of time if they would even come back and would not be worth it. You'd lose most your muscle and be misrable. I dont know why he would even mention coming off. Ive been on hrt since 05. Your body will adapt and you will not "feel" it as much but your blood results should remain the same. You just dont get the mental feel like when you hop on a cycle or first started your hrt. Odds are your just losing your hair with age. It would have happened regaurdless. Hrt maybe speeding it up a bit but the pro's v.s. all the cons if you go off are much more worth it. 200mg every 2weeks sucks. At least have him give you 100mg/wk. Thats bare minimum dosage anyway. I suggest getting bloodwork to see what range your in. 100mg/wk is low. Avg is 150mg per week.
 
I just came off of about 2.5 years @ 100mg/week. Nothing for PCT and had my levels checked three months after discontinuing. They were actually 75ng/dl higher than before I went on trt. My balls came back within about two-three weeks. I am also much younger than you so I would assume age will be a factor in recovery.
 
200mg every 2weeks sucks. At least have him give you 100mg/wk. Thats bare minimum dosage anyway. I suggest getting bloodwork to see what range your in. 100mg/wk is low. Avg is 150mg per week.

Now, do you care to expand on this? Is the purpose behind HRT to restore one's test level or to build muscle? Hmm, 100/wk is low...Where do you get your average from - self admin HRT?

As to the original poster, no you'd never come off. You're overthinking this whole idea as you're still bodybuilding and want different results. In that case, do you cycles in between. The periodical test will ensure that you stay in your range and if you happen to adjust to your 200/e2wk dosage after few years, the endo will adjust it. Right now I am on 180/e2wk as this seemed to be the right dosage for me. Testing can be incosistent at times, some of it has to do with absorption factors and outside factors, I would imagine...
 
when I was on longer cycles in the past with more than 2 compounds, I always had my levels come back within 8 weeks tops. I did PCT and then aggressive natural test boosters, DHEA, etc. Last time I did that my natural levels were 600 - 700 total ng / dl.

I was able to talk the doc into allowing me to administer at home to myself. He originally gave me 400 mg / 3 weeks. I told him I'd rather do it more often to keep steady levels, so he wrote the next for 200 mg / 2 weeks. Most time I'll do the original dosing and split it ... 200mg / 10 days or so. He gives me plenty of refills without question, probably enough to do 200mg / week.

Thisall took about a years worth of influencing him. He's an old school guy, first wanted me to get pellet implants, but that wasn't my plan. What I set out to do was have a script that provided enough to do 200 mg / 2 weeks, then just do like 12 weeks on, 12 weeks off at a higher level. Also, before he'd do anything, he wanted to try and find out why my levels were low .... 2 sleep studies, MRI of the pituitary, multiple blood tests. He's not open to a whole lot more, so I don't push him. He's probably about to retire, and I hear his associates are even more closed minded.
 
What natural test boosters did you use besides the DHEA? Did you feel they helped? Been on hrt for about a year. Good thread. Thanks for the advice.
 
You should try some HCG 250mf twice a week with your TRT its better, read this

AN UPDATE TO THE CRISLER HCG PROTOCOL

By John Crisler, DO



In my paper “My Current Best Thoughts on How to Administer TRT for Men”, published in A4M’s 2004/5 Anti-Aging Clinical Protocols, I introduced a new protocol where small doses of Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin (HCG) are regularly added to traditional TRT (either weekly IM testosterone cypionate or daily cream/gel). The reasons and benefits of this protocol are as follows, along with a new improvement I wish to share:

Any physician who administers TRT will, within the first few months of doing so, field complaints from their patients because they are now experiencing troubling testicular atrophy. Irrespective of the numerous and abundant benefits of TRT, men never enjoy seeing their genitals shrinking! Testicular atrophy occurs because the depressed LH level, secondary to the HPTA suppression TRT induces, no longer supports them. It is well known that HCG—a Luteinizing Hormone (LH) analog—will effectively, and dramatically, restore the testicles to previous form and function. It accomplishes this due to shared moiety between the alpha subunits of both hormones.

So, that satisfies an aesthetic consideration which should not be ignored. Now let’s delve into the pharmacodynamics of the TRT medications. For those employing injectable
testosterone cypionate, the cypionate ester provides a 5-8 day half-life, depending upon the specific metabolism, activity level, and overall health of the patient. It is now well-established that appropriate TRT using IM injections must be dosed at weekly intervals, in order to avoid seating the patient on a hormonal, and emotional, roller coaster. Adding in some HCG toward the end of the weekly “cycle” compensates for the drop in serum androgen levels by the half-life of the cypionate ester. Certainly the body thrives on regularity, and supplementing the TRT with endogenous testosterone production at just the right time—without inappropriately raising androgen OR estrogen (more on that later)—approximates the excellent performance stability of transdermal testosterone delivery systems for those who, for whatever reason or reasons, prefer test cyp.

But there’s another metabolic reason to employ this protocol. The P450 Side Chain Cleavage enzyme, which converts CHOL into pregnenolone at the initiation of all three metabolic pathways CHOL serves as precursor (the sex hormones, glucocorticoids and mineralcorticoids), is actively stimulated, or depressed, by LH concentrations. It is intuitively consistent that during conditions of lowered testosterone levels, commensurate increases in LH production would serve to stimulate this conversion from CHOL into these pathways, thereby feeding more raw material for increased hormone production. And vice versa. Thus the addition of HCG (which also stimulates the P450scc enzyme) helps restore a more natural balance of the hormones within this pathway in patients who are entirely, or even partially, HPTA-suppressed.

It is important that no more than 500IU of HCG be administered on any given day. There is only just so much stimulation possible, and exceeding that not only is wasteful, doing so has important negative consequences. Higher doses overly stimulate testicular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels, and brings on the detrimental effects of same. It also causes Leydig cell desentization to LH, and we are therefore inducing primary hypogonadism while perhaps treating secondary hypogonadism. 250IU QD is an effective, and safe, dose. After all, we are merely replacing that which is lost to inhibition.

In my previous report I recommended 250IU of HCG twice per week for all TRT patients, taken the day of, along with the day before, the weekly test cyp injection. After looking at countless lab printouts, listening to subjective reports from patients, and learning more about HCG, I am now shifting that regimen forward one day. In other words, my test cyp TRT patients now take their HCG at 250IU two days before, as well as the day immediately previous to, their IM shot. All administer their HCG subcutaneously, and dosage may be adjusted as necessary (I have yet to see more than 350IU per dose required).

I made this change after realizing that the previous HCG protocol was boosting serum testosterone levels too much, as the test cyp serum concentrations rise, approaching its peak at roughly the 72 hour mark. The original goal of supporting serum androgen levels with HCG had overshot its mark.

Those TRT patients who prefer a transdermal testosterone, or even testosterone pellets (although I am not in favor of same), take their HCG every third day. They needn’t concern themselves with diminishing serum androgen levels from their testosterone delivery system. These patients will, of course, notice an increase in serum androgen levels above baseline.

While HCG, as sole TRT, is still considered treatment of choice for hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism by many , my experience is that it just does not bring the same subjective benefits as pure testosterone delivery systems do—even when similar serum androgen levels are produced from comparable baseline values. However, supplementing the more “traditional” TRT of transdermal, or injected, testosterone with HCG stabilizes serum levels, prevents testicular atrophy, helps rebalance expression of other hormones, and brings reports of greatly increased sense of well-being and libido. My patients absolutely love it. As time goes on, we are coming to appreciate HCG as a much more powerful--and wonderful--hormone than previously given credit.








Copyright John Crisler, DO 2004. This article may, in its entirety or in part, be reprinted and republished without permission, provided that credit is given to its author, with copyright notice and All Things Male - Center for Men's Health clearly displayed as source. Written permission from Dr. Crisler is required for all other uses.


Dr. John Crisler may be reached at:

[email protected]
 
Hair loss is caused by testosterone evil twin dihydrotestosterone. try this shampoo. Nizoral A-D ketoconazole shampoo. it has something in it that com- bates against the evil twin.when i first started using test i noticed a lot of hair falling out this stuff stopped it in its tracks.you can buy it in any drug store give it a try you,ll be surprised. it fairly chaep and what do you have to lose but your hair its a dandruff shampoo.there's a article on steroid.com about it.
 
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I have been on HRT straight for about 1.5 years (200 mg / 2 weeks). A couple of times I have upped it to no more than 500 / wk for about 8 weeks, and once added 75 mg tren ace / ED for 6 weeks to prepare for competition. Before HRT, I had about 2 cycles a year max 15 weeks, usually 10 weeks.

There is your problem. You are not just taking HRT, but you are doing cycles every now and then. I would guess that this is the main cause of your hair loss and sides. Just stick to the prescribed HRT and be happy with that if you dont want to lose more hair.

I would ask him for more pins and inject 100 mg/wk rather than do injections biweekly. That really is too far a spread with its half life. Levels are going to fluctuate too much. Many guys like Emeric say it should be like every 5 days.
 
I would have to agree with Mature Muscle and Maldorf. I would suggest splitting your dose to 100mg/week or possibly every 5th day if that's possible. I, like you, have been on HRT for a while now and a few things have helped my hair. First of all, I stay on 1mg of finasteride/day. This should take care of testosterone-related hair loss. If I am on cycle, I'll add Nizoral 2% shampoo to my routine. I get mine at WholeSale Hair Products, inc . FOR ME, these two things have made all the difference in the World. Just keep in mind that some guys get erectile dysfunction from the finasteride. Thankfully, I don't.

Hope this helps.
 
Thanks for all the advice guys. I have been doing HCG about 500 iu / wk, until I ran out, have some on the way, and was thinking about "coming off" awhile, using that at 1000 iu eod then PCT but now y'all have me rethinking it. The natural test booster I use is Diesel Test Hardcore or 2010. I have some of their newer version for PCT on the way, may not use it.

I've also have Nizoral and tried finasteride, and yes, I think it knocked my d!ck down pretty hard. Hair loss isn't big, just seems the receeding hairline is getting thinner, doesn't run in my family. If I keep my dosages at HRT levels I think I'll be okay on the hairline.

I have too much time on my hands lately, so I think this whole thing is because I'm thinking too much. 3 weeks ago I blew out both knees squatting a weight I'd done 1000's of times, only 405 had just done an easy set of 8, on the next set, 4th rep I crashed. Bilateral quadricep tendon ruptures, tore completely off the bone, had to get hauled out of the gym in an ambulance, emergency surgery the next day on both, and I'm in 2 full leg casts for another 4 weeks at least. Haven't worked in 3 weeks, and wont be able to work or drive for another 5 or 6. So, I have too much time on my hands and thinking too hard about this. Also, won't have a need for any cycles for a good while, since I can't train other than some rubber bands, light DBs. So I think I'll hold what I got right now.
 
Some of you said "you can't come off". Even if I've only been on 1. years or leass? When I first started seeking help from a real doc, my levels were within the "range" for normal, but just barely, so they wouldn't give me anything. So, I manipulated myself so to speak, that my T levels would drop a little on paper ... did a bunch of cardio right before the blood test, purposley got little sleep the 3 days or so leading up to the test, and took a couple of pain killers the day before. That dropped my levels just under the range so that my endo would go for it. I could have gotten a "script" from an online anti aging outfit, but insurance would not pick that up :).

So do you think at this point my own levels wouldn't comeback?
 
finasteride and rogaine will stop hair loss. been on almost 2 years, 200/week. my levels average above the norm all the time tho. and like was said, if u don't feel right, get checked out.
 
I've been on HRT since 2003. My levels were 27 when I first was checked. Brain scan and a load of tests. My program call for 300mg EOW. I bumped it up to 500/wk for 10 weeks. felt great at first, but the effects didn't last long. I'm 47 in April. I'm going to stick to 150mg/wk and no more cycles. I'm not a BB competitor, and I don't see the reason to be 250#. I wish I had the drive to be, but I don't. I'm 6'2" 205 w/ 7%bf. I also ride a bicycle 3000 miles per year.
Any way I will never come off HRT and have been kicking the idea of GH at low levels for better health reasons.
I have no hair loss just popping a few stragglers on my back, and never had a Gyno problem.
 
I also did 5 IU / day GH from July 1 until 3 weeks ago. I was unimpresssed, can't really say I've seen any benefit from that at all. Maybe it was fake.
 
Another thing, if for some reason I could no longer take HRT (medical maybe), I'd like to have the hope that my own levels would recover, at least some amount. Not sure what could happen that would disallow me to take HRT, but just thinking. Like I said, I can get my levels into the 600 - 700 range using natural stuff, but it is very expensive when compared to my out of pocket / after insurance cost of the HRT. I'd just like to have that option. Really, my bodyweight and strength doesn't change significantly when I'm on HRT doses vs "off". I just blew out my knees, so no more heavy anything for thighs; partially tore a pec 2 years ago and the other is feeling weird, squirrely shoulders, etc ... I'm not pushing heavy stuff anymore anyway. Only real difference in my physique is I'm a litle sharper and can keep fat off easier when on HRT, aside from the libido issues, thee's ways around that too.

Bottom line, I don't have to fork out the $$ to keep my levels in the mid range when on HRT, vs going the natty route. Just like to keep my options open as long as I can
 
Just my opinion.
Try pinning every week rather than eow. Every two weeks seems too long and you may be getting fluctuating levels which is a common cause to lose ones glorious locks of hair.
 
just wondering if it is hard to get your insurance companies to pay for the hrt/
 

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