Anyone use whey as their primary protein source?

[Gaintrain]

A Primary source needs to be solid! Real meat! that's a Primary source, when it comes to supplementation I will pick casein for constant amino acid supply behind the real food I eat!

 

[Jizzmo]

Are you guys serious?

i love how you always talk shit about other peoples opinions but NEVER EVER back up ANYTHING you say.
all you do is taking others down to reinforce your personal opinion.

thats pathtetic.

 

[gomit]

BV is a useless, outdated method of measuring the quality of a protein source. Layne Norton...isn't that the IIFYM guy? Yeah, I buy into what he's got to sell you. Go ask real athletes what they do and believe. Half the guys competing in bodybuilding from local shows on up to the Mr. O are switching in droves to IIFYM. Not.

Lyle McDonald...doesn't he "sell" people pipe dreams too? Go to his website and he comes off like another Dr. Oz.

I'm not trying to sell you guys anything. I am trying to actually give you something for free. And...you won't take it! My business is not even bodybuilding. I am just coming at you from a 25 years of solid experience standpoint.

You are correct. If you are going to buy a powdered protein supplement, whey is the best you can get.

Not saying i agree with IIFYM... but trying to shit on a man with a PHD in biochem vs ur PHD in???
Don't need to be a dick, and if you read the whole post i said use both.
The test really comes out when people don't agree tough to get a valid healthy argument ...no wonder so many people leave this place.

 

[gomit]

Also if you are a member on John Meadows mt dog diet website in his 2014 off season meal plan, 2 to 3 of his 6 meals where shakes as his protein source... Dugdale did something similar.
Would they just waste 3 meals because they just don't want to eat anymore whole protein....
There just small guys anyways nevermind

 

[ALLEX]

Layne Norton...isn't that the IIFYM guy?

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNC_kjPuEKw"]Layne Norton, natural filth and liar. - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Knight9]

i love how you always talk shit about other peoples opinions but NEVER EVER back up ANYTHING you say.
all you do is taking others down to reinforce your personal opinion.

thats pathtetic.

I'd like to offer you some cheese with that...

 

[NY Muscle]

Not saying i agree with IIFYM... but trying to shit on a man with a PHD in biochem vs ur PHD in???
Don't need to be a dick, and if you read the whole post i said use both.
The test really comes out when people don't agree tough to get a valid healthy argument ...no wonder so many people leave this place.

I remember reading things from Layne Norton in the 90s maybe? Is he the guy that did nothing but protein shakes for a month while using inulin? No solid meals. I'm trying to remember who that fuck nut was but I think he was drinking 1000gms of protein from whey. Claims he put on a lot of muscle. The amount slips my memory right now.

As far as IIFYM. Personally I think it's just silly shit to give you an excuse to eat pop tarts and iHop then proceed to take silly photos of said food and post on Instagram.

I'm sorry but IIFYM ignores the fact that 500gms of carbs from frosted corn flakes is not the same if it was 500gms from a a sweet potato or some high fiber carbohydrate source. I'd love to see someone say 500gms of table sugar "fits their macros".



Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk 2

 

[weltweite]

BV is a useless, outdated method of measuring the quality of a protein source. Layne Norton...isn't that the IIFYM guy? Yeah, I buy into what he's got to sell you. Go ask real athletes what they do and believe. Half the guys competing in bodybuilding from local shows on up to the Mr. O are switching in droves to IIFYM. Not.

Lyle McDonald...doesn't he "sell" people pipe dreams too? Go to his website and he comes off like another Dr. Oz.

I'm not trying to sell you guys anything. I am trying to actually give you something for free. And...you won't take it! My business is not even bodybuilding. I am just coming at you from a 25 years of solid experience standpoint.

You are correct. If you are going to buy a powdered protein supplement, whey is the best you can get.

When you mentioned Lyle McDonald, I assume you were referring to my post about the whey/casein shake idea. I don't think he sells a casein powder but what I do know is that he cites fairly sound studies (I read the studies myself).. and most importantly, the studies are practical and were in real world application, not theoretical.

Nothing he said was unreasonable. Yes there is a protein refractory period, yes studies do show that. Yes, high peak levels of aminos flooding the system does cause inhibitory effects by the body. Yes this inhibition can be manipulated with certain hormones and exercise. (GH inhibits oxidation of leucine for example). Yes the body does tend to work in peaks and troughs. (For example... Think insulin peaks and GH troughs and how this wave balance effects GH receptors)

Going beyond the fact that leucine initiates an anabolic response and further understanding how leucine is affected by hormones, and amino concentrations..... tend to displace a lot of arguments about whole food protein sources vs. powders.

There is definitely a benefit to slowing down the absorption of protein. Casein is a whole food in my opinion. Milk is 80% casein and 20% whey with with some vitamin content, fat and water.

I think the argument is really about fast versus slow and also how vitamins and fats play a role in protein assimilation and turnover rate. If the slow absorption of whole foods is matched by powder then I believe the benefits will be similar.

Here is a quote from a good article by Lyle
**broken link removed**

The researchers also looked at how each protein impacted on net leucine balance, that is how much leucine was actually stored in the body (this is used as an indicator of what’s going on with other amino acid levels).

Despite the fact that the whey actually stimulated more protein synthesis, the casein had the larger impact on leucine balance; at the end of the feeding period, the body had stored more leucine with the casein. Phrased a bit differently, it looked as if decreasing protein breakdown was more important than increasing protein synthesis in terms of whole body leucine (and therefore, protein balance).

 

[TrinityD]

i love how you always talk shit about other peoples opinions but NEVER EVER back up ANYTHING you say.
all you do is taking others down to reinforce your personal opinion.

thats pathtetic.

Knight is one of the few people on this forum and across EVERY FORUM i have ever seen that continuously provides sound and logical information to backup his beliefs. It is incredibly obvious that he is detail oriented. In some cases , overly detail oriented. Suffice to say, I am at a loss of words that you have the audacity to proclaim he never backs anything up. All I have to do is click his post history and I will most likely find dozens of instances where he backs himself up in just the past few months alone. You are attacking his entire character rather than solely focusing on the comments he made in this thread; there may have been a slight chance people would view your comment a little differently but unfortunately that is not the case. Furthermore, your accusations of his character are ridiculous and the majority of members that have seen his postings on this forum would respectfully disagree with your finger pointing.
Ridiculous....

Anyways bro have a good day, no harsh feelings

 

[SugarFree]

I have yet to see anyone cite a study showing where "real" food is superior to whey.

BV is arguably the best measure of a protein's quality. BV is based on how much of the protein consumed is actually absorbed and utilized. The higher the amount of protein that is actually retained, the greater the BV. To dismiss this as "BS" seems to imply a disregard for factual information.

The whole whey protein vs "real" food protein debate seems a bit misleading. About 20% of the protein content in milk is from whey. Whey protein is a natural dairy derivative that is isolated during the process of turning milk into cheese. Its food in the same way as protein from other sources of food.

I dont think whey is superior to other sources of food but I dont think its less either and personally I prefer it over other sources of food. Its convenient, easy to make, easy to keep accounting of my macros and adjust by blending other things in etc

 

[nothuman]

I have yet to see anyone cite a study showing where "real" food is superior to whey.

BV is arguably the best measure of a protein's quality. BV is based on how much of the protein consumed is actually absorbed and utilized. The higher the amount of protein that is actually retained, the greater the BV. To dismiss this as "BS" seems to imply a disregard for factual information.

The whole whey protein vs "real" food protein debate seems a bit misleading. About 20% of the protein content in milk is from whey. Whey protein is a natural dairy derivative that is isolated during the process of turning milk into cheese. Its food in the same way as protein from other sources of food.

I dont think whey is superior to other sources of food but I dont think its less either and personally I prefer it over other sources of food. Its convenient, easy to make, easy to keep accounting of my macros and adjust by blending other things in etc

The only reason people think solid protein is superior is purely psychological. The fact that you're actually chewing meat makes it SEEM more effective than drinking something. The reality is that it doesn't matter. Your body will look the same. Until I see ONE piece of scientific proof stating otherwise, I will not change my opinion. I've been asking for years for the solid food gang to produce this and they never have. Their best argument has been "look at this jacked bodybuilder! he doesn't have shakes!", which proves zero.

 

[brutus69]

The only reason people think solid protein is superior is purely psychological. The fact that you're actually chewing meat makes it SEEM more effective than drinking something. The reality is that it doesn't matter. Your body will look the same. Until I see ONE piece of scientific proof stating otherwise, I will not change my opinion. I've been asking for years for the solid food gang to produce this and they never have. Their best argument has been "look at this jacked bodybuilder! he doesn't have shakes!", which proves zero.

yep. besides, whey is almost pure protein. people talk about fillers, well, most of the mass of meat is filler. fat, tendon, fascia, water, etc.
you get, if say, 7g per ounce of meat is protein, only 112 grams in every 454 you chew up and swallow.
i'd much prefer to drink 50 grams of whey than spend time chewing 8 oz of meat. i add it to solid food every meal and in the end it digests just like the rest of the meal.

 

[Whey2Heavy]

I remember reading things from Layne Norton in the 90s maybe? Is he the guy that did nothing but protein shakes for a month while using inulin? No solid meals. I'm trying to remember who that fuck nut was but I think he was drinking 1000gms of protein from whey. Claims he put on a lot of muscle. The amount slips my memory right now.

As far as IIFYM. Personally I think it's just silly shit to give you an excuse to eat pop tarts and iHop then proceed to take silly photos of said food and post on Instagram.

I'm sorry but IIFYM ignores the fact that 500gms of carbs from frosted corn flakes is not the same if it was 500gms from a a sweet potato or some high fiber carbohydrate source. I'd love to see someone say 500gms of table sugar "fits their macros".



Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk 2

Lol that's Dan Duchaine you're thinking of man, Layne is a professional "Natural" Bodybuilder (whether you believe him or not is up to you) with a PHD who is most known for his studies on leucine, basically showing the amount of leucine it takes (in rats) to stimulate optimal protein synthesis.

And I would just like to address this common misconception with IIFYM for a moment. IIFYM is not MEANT or INTENDED to be an excuse to eat crap for every meal every day. IIFYM came into existence because of all of the recreational bodybuilders on internet forums freaking out because they had a bowl of sugary cereal and thinking they would wake up obese the next morning. IIFYM was meant to be a solution for the OCD behaviors and dietary restriction that leads to binging and eating disorders.

What will most average people do when you tell them they can NEVER have their favorite food again? They will be strict for a while, and then fall off the wagon and lose control. IIFYM is a way of saying that you can have a poptart here or there if it makes you happy, just fit it into your overall macros and try to consume wholesome nutritious food for the majority of your diet.

What happened is some kids on the internet took a good concept and ran with it... And yes, some people use it incorrectly to eat a shitty diet.

 

[Growman]

Knight is one of the few people on this forum and across EVERY FORUM i have ever seen that continuously provides sound and logical information to backup his beliefs. It is incredibly obvious that he is detail oriented. In some cases , overly detail oriented. Suffice to say, I am at a loss of words that you have the audacity to proclaim he never backs anything up. All I have to do is click his post history and I will most likely find dozens of instances where he backs himself up in just the past few months alone. You are attacking his entire character rather than solely focusing on the comments he made in this thread; there may have been a slight chance people would view your comment a little differently but unfortunately that is not the case. Furthermore, your accusations of his character are ridiculous and the majority of members that have seen his postings on this forum would respectfully disagree with your finger pointing.
Ridiculous....

Anyways bro have a good day, no harsh feelings

Yeah Knight usually always backs up all his claims, very thoroughly. In some cases he might be so baffled by what others are claiming that he doesn't bother, but usually he always backs everything up with scientific facts.

 

[marshallmadman]

The original question was about using Whey as a PRIMARY protein source. If it really was the best quality primary protein source, Branch Warren would just drink shakes with the rest of his meals instead of bothering to cook actual meat. So would I. So would you. Whey protein is cheap compared to steak.

The idea that a powdered protein product can "replace" a solid food source is a space age pipe dream rammed down your throat by supplement companies to sell you more stuff. The first question a kid asks me when I start training them is "what kind of protein should I get". My answer is always the same.

If I really thought Whey was superior to actual meat, I would go that way in a hearbeat. I HATE EATING MEAT!!! I hate cooking it. I hate having to eat it. I hate digesting it. I can't stand going to the grocery store and shelling out $8 per pound for sirloin steak, but I do it.

I know pro bodybuilders lie about a lot of stuff, but I really doubt that they are lying about eating actual solid food. Why? Because they stand to make no money by telling you that. People that tell you Whey and Casein are great are selling the stuff. Plain and simple.

Powdered protein is a supplement, nothing more. End of story.

 

[Whey2Heavy]

Powdered protein is a supplement, nothing more. End of story.

The problem I have with this argument is that whey IS food. It is comparable to powdered milk, it's just milk protein without the casein. If you were to drink egg whites, with the yolks removed, would that not be real food? Just because something comes in a different form, a powder or a liquid, does not magically make it anything other than food. Highly processed food for sure, but still food.


Overall, my opinion though is that variety is the way to go with your diet to ensure that you get the widest array of benefits from the food that you consume. I think we can all agree that consuming nothing but whey and water all day would be foolish.

 

[Knight9]

The only reason people think solid protein is superior is purely psychological. The fact that you're actually chewing meat makes it SEEM more effective than drinking something. The reality is that it doesn't matter. Your body will look the same. Until I see ONE piece of scientific proof stating otherwise, I will not change my opinion. I've been asking for years for the solid food gang to produce this and they never have. Their best argument has been "look at this jacked bodybuilder! he doesn't have shakes!", which proves zero.

I literally can't believe some of the things you guys are saying on here. I'll get into it more when I have time. At least I think I will. Part of me thinks it's a complete waste of my time to even debate it - considering some of the simple-minded theories involved here. I know some of you are smarter than this.

 

[Knight9]

The problem I have with this argument is that whey IS food. It is comparable to powdered milk, it's just milk protein without the casein. If you were to drink egg whites, with the yolks removed, would that not be real food? Just because something comes in a different form, a powder or a liquid, does not magically make it anything other than food. Highly processed food for sure, but still food.


Overall, my opinion though is that variety is the way to go with your diet to ensure that you get the widest array of benefits from the food that you consume. I think we can all agree that consuming nothing but whey and water all day would be foolish.

Whey is food by-product, not food. Egg whites are still food.

 

[marshallmadman]

I am actually interested in this enough to do a real live experiment on this myself. I think Knight9 pretty much agrees with a lot of what I'm saying here.

It fascinates me that people still think that the protein they sell you in a jug would be superior to that provided by food. You have been brainwashed.

What if I did a log? I will use 50 grams of the highest quality whey isolate powder for 6 meals daily (as my primary protein source). No eggs, no chicken, no steak. Just whey...that's it.

I will take before and after photos. I am very interested to see what my results would be.

 

[Pericles]

I am actually interested in this enough to do a real live experiment on this myself. I think Knight9 pretty much agrees with a lot of what I'm saying here.

It fascinates me that people still think that the protein they sell you in a jug would be superior to that provided by food. You have been brainwashed.

What if I did a log? I will use 50 grams of the highest quality whey isolate powder for 6 meals daily (as my primary protein source). No eggs, no chicken, no steak. Just whey...that's it.

I will take before and after photos. I am very interested to see what my results would be.

Hope u can cover your macros to be equal to " whole foods." You doing a study on yourself wouldn't do much. Need a control group conducted by actual doctors then u can submit to whatever journal u want. Then we can go back to debating as it seems very few on here have done any research