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Argument about what the best training routine is and the best way to train

massnup

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I asked a guy a question back in 2002 about a routine that he was talking about being the best way to add muscle and I also asked him about the rep range that he recommended and heres what he had to say, what do you all think about this?

Hello,
I am answering your question about the routine I was discussing [ or attempting to] on NN message board. First let me state that approx. 95% of ALL serious bodybuilders around the world train in precisely the same fashion. The other 5% train in a power bodybuilding style aka Dorian, Nasser, Tom Prince etc. Dante speaks of Ronnie Coleman but I would hate to inform him that Ronnie does 12-15 reps on all his movements and at times does power lifts at 2-3 reps which are done infrequently. Also Coleman stated on Jay Leno that his REAL training program is done 1 bodypart a day, 5 days a week, and lasts no longer than 45 mins. Unfortunately the weight game is TOTALLY commercialized with everyone promoting their own agenda at the expense of the truth. For examole how long do you think that you would last if you were to follow Dante's approach of training a bodypart frequently [ more than 1 day a week] and loading up on the weights constantly [ always trying to lift heavier]. How long do you think it would be before you'd be injured? How long before you'd be burnt out? As you may recall the GREATEST technology to come to bodybuilders was to work the bodyparts NO more than 1 day a week. There was a time when everyone trained a bodypart 3 times a week and the results were minimal; then it dropped to 2 times a week and the results were much better and then done to one where then results were much better still. Routine: 1 bodypart a day done 5 days a week.

Ex. Legs- shoulders- back- chest - arms

Legs- 3 ex. 3 sets of 15 for quads, " " for hams, " " For calves
Shoulders - 4 ex. 3 sets of 15
Back " "
Chest " "
Arms - Triceps- 3 ex. 3 sets of 15
Biceps " " Forearms 2 ex. 3 sets of 15 There you have it.

The big difference is that you pick a weight that enables you to perform an exercise in perfect style and concentration and CADENCE [meaning 1 second up and 1 second down with no hesitation between reps.] The only exception is the squats where you will lower the weight slower than 1 sec due to the nature of the exercise. The issue here is that you train for the feel and increase the weight ONLY when you cease to get the stimulation from the movement. This training to failure is not the way to go as you would have discovered if you have been doing it. You MUST NOT burn yourself out so thatyou cannot come back the next day and feel good for your training.
Good Luck
National Competitor


So could you give me an example of a chest workout?And why 15 reps per set. why not something like 6 reps?Thanks

Chest:
3 sets of flyes 12-15 reps on all exercises
3 sets of incline dumbells
3 sets of hammer bench
3 sets of dumbell pullovers
Why 12-15 reps -because it produces better gains; with 6 reps the set is over practically before it begins. You can not establish a rhythum amd pain zone to go through. Good luck.
 
I'm not sure if you are looking to start some sort of dispute about DC training or not... the results speak for themselves though so there is little argument to be had here.
 
I agree with what that guy said....I believe thats the best way to train for mass and I advise you and anyone else in this forum (and all bodybuilding forums to train that way)

Why can I say that? Because what a lot of people havent figured out yet is I could give a living sh&t how anyone trains. I dont make money off of DC training. I dont make money if you train DC. Honestly if i could I would love to go off on some people and yell "Why are you being such a pansyass Nancyboy jumping around from routine to routine, your a grown man, put it together for yourself!!! Find out what you should be doing, how you like to train, believe in it and hammer it!"

Im just a guy who did things differently and never knew it would raise such a ruckus and screw up peoples belief systems when I came out with it. Hey noone can continue training doing their thing if they have the slight curiousity that those guys over there might be doing something better and faster....otherwise the belief system all goes to shit. When i put out my ideas on that little board 10 years ago I didnt have a clue it would take off like this....not a clue in the world.....thats why i used the screenname doggcrapp so I could post once and boom done and over with. Didnt happen...people tried things out -- it worked for them-- they told friends and on and on and on to what you see today. I got no control over it at all. Ive been pretty much retired from training anyone since August of 2007 and its a wildfire I cant put out. If noone new ever trained with my methods starting today, it would probably be the best thing that could ever happen to me....I could concentrate on more important things than a subject I make absolutely no coin on.

But I will say this....in the beginning I had people all over these muscle boards slamming me and saying "that shit wont work" even though I was writing about all this stuff in Hardcore Muscle back in the early 90's. Unlike others who just spew blah blah blah this is why you should train this way....i had the balls to put up 1000's if not multiple of thousands now of pictures of people Ive trained backing my shit up. In fact I would say i have more pictures of my trainee's over the last 10 years on boards than any single trainer out there...in fact thats not even a debate.

I really dont understand why this simple concept is so hard for some people. My whole deal is built around progressive weights. Whats the 2 times you get largest in bodybuilding? Your first 2 years of lifting when your training weights go flying up like a rocket ship. Whats the second time? When people start using steroids and their weights again go flying up like a rocket ship. I know this sounds absolutely stupid but I have to break it down to this level or people get so clusterfucked in their thinking they overthink things. If the 400 pro bodybuilders at the 6 month mark of their training stopped going up in their training weights and stayed with those training weights the rest of their career do you really think they would make appreciable gains after that? Do you really think a 185 pound bench and 225 pound squat would of gotten it done for Ronnie so he could show up onstage at 277-302? I guess thats the question you need to ask yourself in trying to figure out the best mass building routine and why it works.

I digress.....I believe what that guy above in your post said....is the magic routine to gain muscle mass....its just alot easier for me that way and i can concentrate on more important things like my Redsox beating the Rays tonite.
 
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I'm not sure if you are looking to start some sort of dispute about DC training or not... the results speak for themselves though so there is little argument to be had here.


NO, I know DC works!
 
seriously whats with all the posts all over every muscle board trying to find a magick trick to grow. why is it so damn hard for people to figure out. grab a heavy weight, lift it alot, and eat alot. this isn't rocket science people. when are you going to realize its not the routine you choose its how hard you work that routine. i get the point of DC, i get the point of volume training, and guess what..neither of them work...if you dont work them. you think dc will get you big if you dont lif heavier and heavier? you think 12 sets per body part will get you big if you dont eat alot and never bench more that 150lbs? it all works. infact it couldnt be simpler. bench 150 today for 6 then a year from now bench 300 for 6 no matter what program you use and tell me you didnt grow.

even better ill do that and you jump from routine to routine trying to figure out the magick one and well compare gains after a year. ill put my own ass on the line with pics and results. ill keep a log and ill show you how it works. everyone needs to stop bashing DC training. even DC says its not the be all and end all to bodybuilding. how many times does he have to say it. its real simple pick one thing and stick with it and work the shit out of it. i dont train DC and im sure DC would say im doing great if he had a look at my log book for the past 2 months. THE PROGRAM DOESNT MATTER. HOW YOU WORK THE PROGRAM IS WHAT MATTERS. if anyone wants to contest this go ask the guys who have gained the most mass in the past 2 years, everyone one of them worked theyre program.

DC i cant blame you for being fed up with all this shit, i feel for ya man. it just goes to show that no good deed goes unpunished. you gave out a ton of free advice trying to help people get what they want out of this sport and it keeps getting thrown back in your face. im personally sorry for every idiot who doesnt get it.
 
i had the balls to put up 1000's if not multiple of thousands now of pictures of people Ive trained backing my shit up. In fact I would say i have more pictures of my trainee's over the last 10 years on boards than any single trainer out there...in fact thats not even a debate.

Not to prove you wrong or start a debate, I just want to point out a man that, like you, has records of all his trainees - which are A LOT - and might give you a run for your money:
Charles Poliquin
 
I am a big believer in your system DC. I just started it myself about 2 weeks ago. I was wondering where I could see some of the pictures of your trainee's, not at all because I doubt you or your system... Just because I think it would be very interesting to see the progress...
 
nevermind Dante said it better.
 
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they are really all over the place on different boards but there is some in the gallery on intensemuscle in the doggpound---alot of the pictures pre november 2005 are gone now due to the webmaster wanting to save space

Id start on that thread and look around (i think you have to sign up and post once to see pics)

**broken link removed**


You can see alot of the pictures on intensemuscle

1) search
2) advanced search
3) put in doggcrapp to the right and below that change the box to posts started by doggcrapp
4) make sure it only searches the dogg pound in the big box

then look for every post that has a paperclip on it
 
I agree with what that guy said....I believe thats the best way to train for mass and I advise you and anyone else in this forum (and all bodybuilding forums to train that way)

Why can I say that? Because what a lot of people havent figured out yet is I could give a living sh&t how anyone trains. I dont make money off of DC training. I dont make money if you train DC.

It doesn't matter how vague or implied one comes across that there may be some other way to train than DC's... he never fails to jump all over it and tell ya why he's the best...DC you got way to much time on your hands bro....maybe you should get a real job.
But to say you don't make any money off this DC thing is laughable...its obvious your so invested in the method concept that you jump on any one who implies other wise...sad really. Do you have other hobbies maybe buy a cat...get laid...something besides spend all your time chasing down newbies that may disagree...LOL
 
Oh man not you again....didnt i already put your 5 pounds of crap in a 10 pound bag, 'juicing with absolutely nothing to show for it' 50 year old ass in check a couple months ago? I see you on every single DC post on this board reading at the bottom .....actually how obsessed are you with me and actually how bad did i screw up that fragile ego of yours?

Yea your a weird guy...deal with it.
 
I think if you get your weights up in the stratosphere on all the big compound movements for 6 to 10 reps you won't be complaining that you need to gain size. When I say in the stratosphere I'm meaning squats 500 for 6 to 10 reps, flat and incline presses 450 for 6 to 10 reps, deadlift 500 for 6 to 10 reps, close grip 405 for 6 to 10 reps, barbell curls 200 for 6 to 10 reps, dumbell curls 80lbs, barbell shoulder presses 315 for 6 to 10 reps, dumbell presses 150's. I don't think anyone can workout with this kind of weight and not be huge but its just so hard to get to where you can handle these kind of weights and thats the reason most people don't get there.
 
I think if you get your weights up in the stratosphere on all the big compound movements for 6 to 10 reps you won't be complaining that you need to gain size. When I say in the stratosphere I'm meaning squats 500 for 6 to 10 reps, flat and incline presses 450 for 6 to 10 reps, deadlift 500 for 6 to 10 reps, close grip 405 for 6 to 10 reps, barbell curls 200 for 6 to 10 reps, dumbell curls 80lbs, barbell shoulder presses 315 for 6 to 10 reps, dumbell presses 150's. I don't think anyone can workout with this kind of weight and not be huge but its just so hard to get to where you can handle these kind of weights and thats the reason most people don't get there.

100% correct. its verry hard to get there. most people wont push themselves that hard for anything in theyre lives let alone in the gym. theres not too many people willing to make the sacrafices to theyre own comfort that it takes. but hard isnt impossible. its just a matter of will power, and work.
 
I think if you get your weights up in the stratosphere on all the big compound movements for 6 to 10 reps you won't be complaining that you need to gain size. When I say in the stratosphere I'm meaning squats 500 for 6 to 10 reps, flat and incline presses 450 for 6 to 10 reps, deadlift 500 for 6 to 10 reps, close grip 405 for 6 to 10 reps, barbell curls 200 for 6 to 10 reps, dumbell curls 80lbs, barbell shoulder presses 315 for 6 to 10 reps, dumbell presses 150's. I don't think anyone can workout with this kind of weight and not be huge but its just so hard to get to where you can handle these kind of weights and thats the reason most people don't get there.

I completely agree with what you're saying here. But to get into those numbers for 1 lift alone would be very difficult, if not genetically impossible for some. To get into those kinda numbers for all those lifts would just be flat out insane.
 
I completely agree with what you're saying here. But to get into those numbers for 1 lift alone would be very difficult, if not genetically impossible for some. To get into those kinda numbers for all those lifts would just be flat out insane.

its true that it may not be possible for some people, but, if you dont make every last effort to get there youll never know. its the work that counts, the numbers will come if the work is there. this is a sport of greed, always wanting more, to progress and be better, at least for me thats how i keep my edge and my drive. thats how i beat my log book every week. if your happy with a 225 bench then thats all youll ever have and youll always be only as big as a guy that benches 225.
 
its true that it may not be possible for some people, but, if you dont make every last effort to get there youll never know. its the work that counts, the numbers will come if the work is there. this is a sport of greed, always wanting more, to progress and be better, at least for me thats how i keep my edge and my drive. thats how i beat my log book every week. if your happy with a 225 bench then thats all youll ever have and youll always be only as big as a guy that benches 225.

Totally agreed Tkav. I was just trying to say that there are superheavyweight bodybuilders I've trained with who can't hit any of those numbers, let alone all. But the determination and drive to get there is certainly what separates them from the rest of the pack.
 
Totally agreed Tkav. I was just trying to say that there are superheavyweight bodybuilders I've trained with who can't hit any of those numbers, let alone all. But the determination and drive to get there is certainly what separates them from the rest of the pack.

I think if someone gets around 85% to 90% of those weights that they would have some good size but takin it up to that extra 50 to 60 lbs on the exercises is where there becomes a huge difference.
 

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