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Building a foundation

USMuscle9403

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BOOOOOOO Disappointed Bboy.......I opened this hoping for a lecture on forming the basic foundation of a pro drug protocol.........







I kid;) and I agree. For the record, most of these guys are using pre-workouts for their first workout. Guys come in all the time stating they are going to START lifting and "need," a pre. Most cannot give me a ballpark number for their protein intake but insist on a pre first, ugh. I sell them what they want but try to get them at least set up with a protein and creatine first but not many listen.

What the fuck do they need a pre for, so they can stand around and talk about their pre with more intensity? They sure as fuck don't use it for a workout. Beats the hell outta me...

And it's always the expensive shit like Bucked Up. Make a bunch of lazy, lame asses who have a few bucks feel like superman and the world is yours. For most, though, pretending is just as good as doing. If you can say you did something, or act like you did it and convince others that you did it, presto, it's done! Take a hardcore product, you're now taking every single workout to the extreme! Your workouts are now amazingly efficient even though you just took three hours to do four light sets of cable flyes.
 

maldorf

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.If someone were to push steroids hard at some point in their life you could argue that it's better to do so when young. Of course the problem is that often people might push them hard for too long and then runt into problems.
That's the big thing in my mind. For most guys, the longer you're on the higher your dose gets too in order to continue growing. The health accumulates more damage.
 

Biggerp73

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Not "building a foundation" before juice is nothing new. Majority of bodybuilding legends started as teens, mid-teens or even early teens. Arnold started at 13 according to his Austrian trainer. Might be BS but he wasn't out of his teens when he started.
Bodybuilding is a young man's game, there's not much time to wait if you wanted to maximize your physique. If someone busted his ass naturally until his 30s it's already too late, age is already a limiting factor. Arnold or Lee Haney were already permanently out of the game at that age.
I've seen a lot of pros preach patience and building a foundation. If Lee Priest preaches patience and how it all takes years and years, how can you take it seriously when he already won a show at freaking 13 years old! Lol. Busted for roids at 17 and a pro at 19. What patience?

Several decades ago some future bodybuilding champions were put on Deca and Dbol by doctors at 14 or 15 years old. Evidently you don't need much of a foundation before steroids to "make it" in bb, you don't even need to be fully grown! :D
In fact, steroids when still a child might help "alter genetics" more. Healthy? No. More effective? Probably.

If someone were to push steroids hard at some point in their life you could argue that it's better to do so when young. Of course the problem is that often people might push them hard for too long and then runt into problems.

I know I'm a bit contrarian here, but I've thought about this a lot over the years and these are just my personal opinions:)
Van bilderass?
 

totalrecomp

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What the fuck do they need a pre for, so they can stand around and talk about their pre with more intensity? They sure as fuck don't use it for a workout. Beats the hell outta me...

And it's always the expensive shit like Bucked Up. Make a bunch of lazy, lame asses who have a few bucks feel like superman and the world is yours. For most, though, pretending is just as good as doing. If you can say you did something, or act like you did it and convince others that you did it, presto, it's done! Take a hardcore product, you're now taking every single workout to the extreme! Your workouts are now amazingly efficient even though you just took three hours to do four light sets of cable flyes.

We got one kid, 19-20, who has a great shape and could really do something with it if he wanted to. The kid takes the strongest pre we have and then adds 2 25mg DMAA caps to it. He also complains that eating is his biggest challenge. I pointed out that his amphetamine habit might not be helping. I also told him to keep an eye on BP and HR. He stated his family has no history of such but then again they have no history of stim abuse lol.

Most of these guys equate the tingle from BA with potency. One guy claimed the 75mg DMAA pre was weak because he did not tingle that much. Never mind the longer you take BA the less it tingles and most of these guys NEVER cycle off pre's. Absolute idiots. Oh, well.
 

b-boy

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...and they start off cycling right from the beginning thinking it's the drugs that give the results (when in fact the drugs are just a catalyst), these are same ones that don't get the "magical" results they expect, then think they are "low responders" and crank the doses up to crazy amounts...
Ha ha this is the exact same thing I think to myself everytime some dumbest says " I'm a low responder thats why I have to run such huge cycles" and I'm like no you dumbfuck you just half ass everything else and expect some miracle from the heavens with your gear.
 

bad rad

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Ha ha this is the exact same thing I think to myself everytime some dumbest says " I'm a low responder thats why I have to run such huge cycles" and I'm like no you dumbfuck you just half ass everything else and expect some miracle from the heavens with your gear.
Might explain why I exploded on low doses. I gained 60lbs PLing in 12 months running about 250mg Test when I cycled.
 

SOUR DIESEL

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before i say anything else, i'll say; i understand & completely agree with bboy & the rest

BUT this is the world we live in now a days (..for the most part) & it doesn't just apply to AAS use/choices either
..entitlement issues
..shit work ethic
..disrespect for authority/teachers/parents/seniors/each other
..get what you can, not what you'v earned
..always looking for the path of least resistance (..& they think this makes them smart)
..little to no disciple or conviction for anything

"old school" ideals fade further everyday ..we'r a dying breed (..oh well, what can you do)

for myself i'v learned it's easier on me & my BP not resent it
(..does this mean i agree with it? ..no, absolutely not ..& i can still get caught up in it from time to time)

long story short ..people make poor decisions about various things all day long
..for the most part, i don't sweat that shit anymore
..my time & concern is worth more than to be wasted on these types
& i'd rather apply my effort where it makes a difference

most of these guys hardly workout off cycle, if they do at all
& there's hardly enough "discerning eyes" out there to call'em on it anyway

at the end of the day we'r allowed/permitted our opinions & nothing more
(..and really, any more than that can become a f*ck of a burden to carry around)

.
 

btails

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You can't change a young man's mind and I highly doubt everyone here made the brightest decisions when they were younger. Let them do what they are going to do anyways and they'll learn from it.
 

Bio

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totalrecomp

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You can't change a young man's mind and I highly doubt everyone here made the brightest decisions when they were younger. Let them do what they are going to do anyways and they'll learn from it.
I know, but it's hard not to shout, "Hey!!!!!!! You idiots, stop!" When you see person after person walking into freeway traffic lol.
 

Millineum Man

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Might explain why I exploded on low doses. I gained 60lbs PLing in 12 months running about 250mg Test when I cycled.
Wow! That's pretty impressive only on 250mgs of Test a week. The crazy thing is MOST of the guys now recommend a minimum of 500mgs of Test a week or your "wasting your time". I know it wasn't all muscle, but probably still had a dramatic effect on your physique and strength levels. Do you remember the weight training routine you followed?
 

USMuscle9403

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Wow! That's pretty impressive only on 250mgs of Test a week. The crazy thing is MOST of the guys now recommend a minimum of 500mgs of Test a week or your "wasting your time". I know it wasn't all muscle, but probably still had a dramatic effect on your physique and strength levels. Do you remember the weight training routine you followed?

The 500mg starting dose is way overkill for most. I started at 250 and even that was too much. 210 and eventually 140 and I started mutating lol
 

bad rad

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Wow! That's pretty impressive only on 250mgs of Test a week. The crazy thing is MOST of the guys now recommend a minimum of 500mgs of Test a week or your "wasting your time". I know it wasn't all muscle, but probably still had a dramatic effect on your physique and strength levels. Do you remember the weight training routine you followed?
I literally tried everything that first couple of years but 5x5 type plans worked well. The biggest piece was switching from BB/maintenance training to competitive mindset PLing. Once I started trying to get big, I got big quick.
 

tokon

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before i say anything else, i'll say; i understand & completely agree with bboy & the rest

BUT this is the world we live in now a days (..for the most part) & it doesn't just apply to AAS use/choices either
..entitlement issues
..shit work ethic
..disrespect for authority/teachers/parents/seniors/each other
..get what you can, not what you'v earned
..always looking for the path of least resistance (..& they think this makes them smart)
..little to no disciple or conviction for anything

"old school" ideals fade further everyday ..we'r a dying breed (..oh well, what can you do)

for myself i'v learned it's easier on me & my BP not resent it
(..does this mean i agree with it? ..no, absolutely not ..& i can still get caught up in it from time to time)

long story short ..people make poor decisions about various things all day long
..for the most part, i don't sweat that shit anymore
..my time & concern is worth more than to be wasted on these types
& i'd rather apply my effort where it makes a difference

most of these guys hardly workout off cycle, if they do at all
& there's hardly enough "discerning eyes" out there to call'em on it anyway

at the end of the day we'r allowed/permitted our opinions & nothing more
(..and really, any more than that can become a f*ck of a burden to carry around)

.


Best post on the thread!
 

hawkmoon

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I trained from 15 to 19 naturally. My first show in 1988 at 18 was the only drug free show available.

I was then off from about 90-91. In 1995 I did an eight week cycle of 1 durateston a week and a hemogenin a day.
I was then off until 2008, when I came back to PM for advice as I'd been away from gear for so long.
I have been cycling ever since with TRT as a minimum for the past three years or so, and I don't like to use a lot.

I never, ever stopped training. I ate more or less, based on needs, but never backed off the basis.
People wonder why when I go off I lose about 10lbs and some pop to my delts, but that's about it (this is probably worse now at nearly 51, so TRT always henceforth anyway).

Why is this? because I never stopped, and always stuck to the core values of serious bodybuilding.
I build and maintained my foundation...because I love training more than near anything.
 

zee-man

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...and they start off cycling right from the beginning thinking it's the drugs that give the results (when in fact the drugs are just a catalyst), these are same ones that don't get the "magical" results they expect, orthen think they are "low responders" and crank the doses up to crazy amounts...
I waited til I was 32, ran the basic 500mg per week for 14 weeks and when I was done it didn't seem like I'd achieved anything amazing. Not at least like gaining 30lb lean mass or the crazy transformations Hollywood pulls for movies. Just felt like I did a normal strength training cycle and had gotten consistently stronger over the period than I was prior to, which is supposed to happen if you get your sleep, eat, and bust your ass in the gym.

Guess what I'm saying is I was disappointed. Maybe I was too fat to start, maybe it worked like it was supposed to after having been on Doc prescribed trt for 2 years already. All i know is watching people on these forums for the past decade I haven't seen these crazy minds blowing pumps, adding 50lbs to my bench in a session or being able to eat 10k calories and it all turn to muscle and glycogen. I did get bloodwork and my total and free did go up, but I didn't see amazing things I expected.
 

alfresco

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(edit)

I never, ever stopped training. I ate more or less, based on needs, but never backed off the basis.
People wonder why when I go off I lose about 10lbs and some pop to my delts, but that's about it (this is probably worse now at nearly 51, so TRT always henceforth anyway).

Why is this? because I never stopped, and always stuck to the core values of serious bodybuilding.
I build and maintained my foundation...because I love training more than near anything.

The longer you have had / held the muscular gains that you developed 'naturally, and to lesser
extent I suppose via the use of PEDS, the less you will lose when you quit or take a layoff.
 

Kaladryn

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I waited til I was 32, ran the basic 500mg per week for 14 weeks and when I was done it didn't seem like I'd achieved anything amazing. Not at least like gaining 30lb lean mass or the crazy transformations Hollywood pulls for movies. Just felt like I did a normal strength training cycle and had gotten consistently stronger over the period than I was prior to, which is supposed to happen if you get your sleep, eat, and bust your ass in the gym.

Guess what I'm saying is I was disappointed. Maybe I was too fat to start, maybe it worked like it was supposed to after having been on Doc prescribed trt for 2 years already. All i know is watching people on these forums for the past decade I haven't seen these crazy minds blowing pumps, adding 50lbs to my bench in a session or being able to eat 10k calories and it all turn to muscle and glycogen. I did get bloodwork and my total and free did go up, but I didn't see amazing things I expected.
No one gets the actual results you are describing, even with amazing genetics. The exception is people who are returning to a previous size ("muscle memory") in these cases results can be more dramatic, that is because the foundation has already been laid. People with small frames and good genetics often look like they have gained 30lbs of lean mass when it's only 10-15. Drugs can increase you metabolism by a fraction but no one is eating 10k calories who wasn't eating 8k before. If you were on 200mg/week TRT before your cycle you were probably highly desensitized. If you can gain 15-20 lbs in a YEAR with multiple cycles, and keep that going for several years, your will become a monster. This game is harder than it looks.
 

GaJoe

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They never seem to get anywhere....skip a lot of training days. Eat like garbage....go back to old lifestyles until they are going to get serious again. Day 1 draw it up. Ultimately they get back to about where they were before and that's it before the "cycle" repeats itself. I've just about stopped helping these young bucks who want to go right into gear. I usually ask them what they had for breakfast and 90% of the time the conversation ends there. Same dudes you see scrolling down their socials while sitting on a machine. B-boy I think it's work ethic man. They don't know what hard work is.
 

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