Conditioning and bulk???

BALDNAZI · Oct 11, 2002

Watching wrestling tonight I realize how large alot of these guys are but also how agile and conditioned as well.It seems like their endurance is as good as alot of smaller guys.In fact alot of athletes collegiate and pro,are some big fucking dudes yet they have some incredible endurance.Worlds strongest man in fact is the perfect example.These guys are not only strong and huge but they are in some awesome condition to be able to do those things.What does it take to get like that?Give me some weight and come hell or high water Ill find a way to lift it,but ask me to do it repeatedly and we have some trouble.
The point is how the hell do you stay huge and yet be able to move and last like these guys.It seems whenever I add cardio,I just lose way too much power and size.What gives?????Whats the sense of being all show and no go???Secrets please.............

ryan · Oct 11, 2002

dude in my ex. u halft to do one then the other get big (in some kind of shape)the lose some weight (in great shape) i wrestle hwt and spend my hole summer putting on weight to come back to school and lose half of it.......just my 0.2

ryan

wolverine · Oct 11, 2002

I think those guys are genetically gifted for what they do. I mean look at most of the WSM competitors. The majority are over 6'. They are naturally big dudes. Total mesomorphs, so they retain alof of size and strength even with large amounts of cardio. Also have to say they punish themselves with such heavy ballistic movements, the body has no choice but to retain the muscle.

And Ryan, Nazi is already a big dude.

BALDNAZI · Oct 11, 2002

thanks wolverine

Yea Ryan,nazi is already a big dude!!!!!!!! LOL,well never big enough,but bigger then most people walking the street,at least on my block ,hehe .I understand what you are saying ,but there has to be another way.I already know if I dropped 30-40 lbs Id be able to run a marathon,but no fucking way will I do it.I want to stay in the 250lb plus range but increase my cardiac capacity.At this point,if I hit 300lbs I wont be able to walk up a flight of stairs.Thats why now at 250,I would like to prepare myself for the weight that will come,and be able to at least function with it if not excel with it........

Wolv,those WSM guys are serious freaks.Most things/people do not impress me,but guys that are over 6ft,350+ pounds and do things that an average human being cannot fathom and most elite athletes cannot even attempt,that leaves me awestruck.Now if we could only get a tape of the WSM guys fighting it out UFC style and set it to high volume death metal,ahhhh now that would get my blood pumping.(ok I might want to go out and smash something too) but what a motivation tape that would be eh????

montyburns · Oct 11, 2002

Hey BN.
What wolverine said.
Try some new training to increase aerobic capacity AND strength/size. Poliquin has some good ideas on this kind of gh/lactic acid training. Or grab a big boulder and do sprints with it to finish off a workout. Or grab a 50 pound sandbag, lift it up and set it on a platform, then return it to the floor, do this for fifty reps and time it... then try to beat it. I find this kind of shit doesn't sap your size and strength like traditional cardio.
Stick to tons of food and gear and you shouldn't lose size or strength. OTOH, I think if someone has exceeded their genetic potential - in terms of size - via gear, then it could very well be easier to lose it.
Bottom line..eat more food, if you ingest more than you burn, you shouldn't lose weight, but you will still gain endurance.

MikeS · Oct 11, 2002

Its all in what you practice. And it takes athletic genetics.
If you were a wrestler youd be practicing wrestling all day-you may bulk up but not in the same way a hardcore BB does. WHen you bulk strictly, you do hinder your agility, but as your body adapts to the new size/weight, your conditioning and agility improves. Youd still be doing conditioning and wrestling-and if youre a BB in bulk phase you woundnt do that stuff because it would hamper your ability to strictly bulk. Those WSM guys are inspirational too. BN-I'll bet you like Brock, dont you? He fucking kicks ass. Have you seen his workout tape they were playing about a couple months ago? Unreal. Lots of conditioning and power training.

BALDNAZI · Oct 11, 2002

mike how did u know?

Lucky guess huh?The dude is a machine.I understand what your saying,its all related to your goals and to your sport.Bodybuilding is a different animal to what these guys want to accomplish,its a tool but not the end all for them.So maybe I should start boxing again. I have been putting it off for quite a few years,definetly get me into condition.BN jumping rope again 60lbs heavier???haaaaa,that would be a sight,and probably not even possible.Monty could be right,maybe calories are the key. All Im concerned about is my size,power and ability to breathe free and easy for extended periods of time.Could it be as simple as riding the bike alittle more at a higher pace????

vitor · Oct 11, 2002

Hmm

I would purpose that you would need to alternate lifting, running, and sprinting, or things of that nature with tons of calories. And boat loads of drugs. I would imagine if you can block the catbalosim of the extra training, running, sprinting etc, and lifting then it would'nt hinder mass as much. For example, wake up eat a ton of food, wait one hour, go do your weight lifting workout, slin, drugs, etc here, eat all day, then at night do running, sprinting, another slin shot, and tons of calories. This would compensate for the higher metabolic rate, and the extra exercise, so you could get the conditioning aspect, and still keep the mass you so desired. If you burn like 500 cals doing 20 wind sprints, and add 1000cals extra to the diet that day, I could imagine it not hampering the body as much. Possiably some CNS recovery drugs would work good here as well. Just an Idea.

Jimbo · Oct 12, 2002

I think one of the ways that these guys are able to stay huge/bulk and do what they due is the fact that they take HGH with there cycles. You can pretty much eat 8k+ cals and still be pretty fit and do some of the normal stuff that the average endurance athlete does

anabolicdragon · Oct 12, 2002

Endurance

I will tell younow matter what people my say when you are on gear it KILLS your endurance, I wreatled anf fought MMA before I touched gear at around 190 pounds. I had crazy endurance and had pretty good strength (bench around 365). Once I hit the juice and put on size (I am 220 now) I have no wind, I threw this guy out of the club after a fight like 2 weeks ago and was so winded, it was a wakeup call for if I got into it with someone with half decent skill to stay out of trouble and keep the fight going, right now if I don't finish off a guy in less than 2 minutes I'm done.
I also agree with montyburns said about trying different training. That normal cardio saps your siz I went back to grappling training a few months ago and quit (and I love to grapple) because I was losing WAY too much weight I was around 205 after just 2 weeks, fuck that.
I was thinking about at the end of all my workouts of doing some kind of cirucit training in the gym or just doing 1 set of clean a press from the floor with light weight until failure to get back some kind of wind and muscle endurance while still keeping my weight.
IMO I don't care how big you are, how strong you are if you don't have wind you can't use any of it unless you take the guy out quickly, you also need heart meaning most guys are used to pounding guys and winning fights but what happens when you are having trouble with a guy or you take a goods shot...do you still have that fight in you. that is heart. most guys are used to being the hammer but how do you react to being the nail...that is the true test.
I know this is getting off topic but thanks for listening.

BALDNAZI · Oct 13, 2002

Dragon

Your not off topic,as most guys on the boards know I throw hands often.And your right,if I do not end it in a couple minutes,Im fucked.Im very used to submissions and my striking skills are scary,I can subdue most that I run into.But there have been times where a skilled person has left me blank and wondering,and many have left me winded.I DO NOT like the feeling.Its like "can I get through this?" So my question did have a direct correlation with fighting,and preventing the situation of the unknown.My size prevents most people from attempting to fight me,but there is always the group that doesnt care,half are skilled the other half are just crazy. Being big is great,being able to use it is better,but being able to keep going and going non stop is the key.Thats what I need to have........

anabolicdragon · Oct 13, 2002

BALDNAZI I agree 100% with you when your winded your thinking "oh shit" cause you know. You rather just stand there and take a shot than move, it takes more energy to get out of the way of a punch than to take it.
I am the same I am not tal 5'9 buy I have some god size to me but your right some guys don't care, and funny I find it's the smallest guys too who are like that. LOL.
I have Asthma so it is even more imprtant for me to be in good shape, I think now after talking about this I am going to add some cirucit training or doing the clean and presses til failure and the end of my workouts maybe twice a week.

anabolicdragon · Oct 13, 2002

Endurance

I will tell younow matter what people my say when you are on gear it KILLS your endurance, I wreatled anf fought MMA before I touched gear at around 190 pounds. I had crazy endurance and had pretty good strength (bench around 365). Once I hit the juice and put on size (I am 220 now) I have no wind, I threw this guy out of the club after a fight like 2 weeks ago and was so winded, it was a wakeup call for if I got into it with someone with half decent skill to stay out of trouble and keep the fight going, right now if I don't finish off a guy in less than 2 minutes I'm done.
I also agree with montyburns said about trying different training. That normal cardio saps your siz I went back to grappling training a few months ago and quit (and I love to grapple) because I was losing WAY too much weight I was around 205 after just 2 weeks, fuck that.
I was thinking about at the end of all my workouts of doing some kind of cirucit training in the gym or just doing 1 set of clean a press from the floor with light weight until failure to get back some kind of wind and muscle endurance while still keeping my weight.
IMO I don't care how big you are, how strong you are if you don't have wind you can't use any of it unless you take the guy out quickly, you also need heart meaning most guys are used to pounding guys and winning fights but what happens when you are having trouble with a guy or you take a goods shot...do you still have that fight in you. that is heart. most guys are used to being the hammer but how do you react to being the nail...that is the true test.
I know this is getting off topic but thanks for listening.

Mr_Magoo · Oct 13, 2002

let me tell u, wrestling is probably the most intense form of cardio ive ever done, u have no idea how tiring it is until u do it, that by itself will get u in great shape, but if u dont have people who want to strap on the singlet and hit the mats with u then here is what u can do. The sandbags lift someone already suggested work very well, high rep squats and deadlifts are brutal on ur diaphragm. Farmers walks work well, and tire flipping. these will get ur cardio up without losing size. Another option is this form of cardio on a stationary bike. it only takes three minutes but its killer. after a little warmup u sprint for 20 seconds as hard as u can at the highest level u can then pedal at a walking speed for 10 sec., then repeat that series 5 more times

Armageddon · Oct 13, 2002

I think the most important thing you can do for this is to properly adjust your food intake. You CAN retain mass while getting in shape. I play football and just went to my last combines at 214lbs. @ 5.8% bf and although this isn't huge it works for me as a safety. There is a myth about cardio taking away too much mass. I say this because I started getting ready for this combine at 216lbs. @ 11.5% bf. I think the best way to get into shape(cardio) and retain size is sprint training. And using various techniques such as parachutes and weighted sleds. This is what has worked best for me.
I also agree about wrestling, that gets you into intense shape, atleast it always did for me. Hope it all works out for ya.

BIGKIWI · Oct 14, 2002

My friend used to compete at the strongest man world comps a few years back always got top placings to. One secret he told me they did before the events was have huge line coke he said increased strength stamina about 15-20%

anabolicdragon · Oct 14, 2002

coke

"My friend used to compete at the strongest man world comps a few years back always got top placings to. One secret he told me they did before the events was have huge line coke he said increased strength stamina about 15-20%"

I think I'll pass on that one. LOL

montyburns · Oct 14, 2002

BIGKIWI said:
One secret he told me they did before the events was have huge line coke he said increased strength stamina about 15-20%

That's the funniest thing I've heard all week, and it's already sunday.

Fathead · Dec 14, 2002

Huge Mistake

There is a huge misconception that extra bodyweight and muscle mass makes you less flexible or become more winded quicker than a smaller guy. I'd suspect oh BALD one you just don't do much stretching or much cardio, buy a stationery punching bag the floor based one that you can put sand or water in and use it 3 or 4 days a wk. Do about 100 kicks don't matter how high or what kind and throw a couple hundred punches you'll see an increase in both flexibility and wind. I'll just say this big muscle does not inhibit or affect lung capacity only lack of areobic activity does or a big gut.