Creatine with keto diet useless?

[The Wolf]

The reason I ask is because your glycogen levels will be low so could creatine serve any benefit at this point?

 

[bigguns078]

Take it on your refeed/high carb day..

 

[The Wolf]

Its not acutalluy a hardcore keto diet Im doing but a softer one by the name of the Palumbo diet which has low carbs coming from green veg and nuts and instead of refeeds its just one cheat meal a week.

 

[bigguns078]

This should be helpful.. An excerpt from the ketogenic diet...

"Creatine Monohydrate

If there is a single sports supplement that has been shown to work under a variety of conditions, it is creatine. Recall from chapter 19 that creatine phosphate (CP) is used to provide short term energy for exercise lasting approximately 20-30 seconds. Numerous studies have shown that supplementing with creatine monohydrate can increase muscular stores of CP and enhance high intensity exercise performance (for recent reviews of the effects of creatine, see references 3-5).
Improvements are primarily seen in short duration, high-intensity activity such as sprint performance as well as weight lifting (3). However, creatine has not consistently been shown to improve longer events, which rely on other energy systems. The improvements range from the ability to maintain a higher performance level prior to fatigue, the ability to perform more
repetitions with a given weight, and some studies suggest that creatine supplementation may increase maximal strength (1 repetition maximum). Additionally, creatine typically causes a large initial weight gain of 5 or more pounds, although the majority of this weight is water. Whether long-term creatine supplementation causes significantly greater gains in lean body
mass is still under research. Creatine is typically loaded first to saturate muscular stores. Although the optimal dosage can vary, most studies suggest consuming 20 grams of creatine in divided doses (typically 5
grams four times a day) for 5 days to saturate muscular stores. An alternate method is to take small (3 grams) daily doses of creatine, which results in similar loading over a period of a month. Some individuals find that high doses of creatine cause stomach upset, and lower doses may make loading possible while avoiding this problem. Although maintenance doses have been suggested, there is some debate as to whether or not this is truly necessary . As long as red meat is an integral part of the diet, as it will most likely be on any form of ketogenic diet, muscular CP stores will stay elevated for long periods of time.

One concern regarding creatine and the ketogenic diet is that research suggests that creatine is absorbed most efficiently if it is taken with a high glycemic index carbohydrate (6,7). Thus the low-carbohydrate nature of the ketogenic diet raises the question of whether creatine supplementation is useful. What should be remembered is that the early creatine studies used
coffee or tea, without carbohydrates, and creatine uptake was still fairly high. Simply more creatine is absorbed if it is taken with a carbohydrate.
There are several strategies to get around this problem. The first is to load creatine before starting a ketogenic diet, so that it can be taken with a high glycemic carbohydrate. Once loaded, the high intake of meat on a ketogenic diet should maintain muscular stores. Additionally, creatine uptake is higher following exercise so that a maintenance dose could be taken immediately after training. Finally, many individuals have had success taking high dose of
creatine (10-20 grams) during the carb-load of the CKD. As well, creatine could be taken around workouts on a TKD. Creatine has no known effects on ketosis, nor would it be expected to affect the establishment or maintenance of ketosis."

 

[VitoBrata]

I think creatine is useless on any diet, with any amount of carbs, even as a paperweight.

 

[halflife]

I think creatine is useless on any diet, with any amount of carbs, even as a paperweight.

Some don't respond.

But Creatine is one of the few supplements (there is 2 or 3) that the studies aren't equivocal. Even the ACSM recognizes studies on increased protein intake for improving athletic performance equivocal. So I would be using the 2-3 supplements that the majority studies aren't equivocal on way before any of this other crap.

 

[vadim_b1]

I think creatine is useless on any diet, with any amount of carbs, even as a paperweight.

and creatine uptake isnt dependent on insulin, it is dependent on sodium levels.

 

[VitoBrata]

and creatine uptake isnt dependent on insulin, it is dependent on sodium levels.

The question was about a keto diet and creatine. And I think the study you are referring to talked about using sodium as a transport for creatine into the muscle cell not your current sodium level. I guess it would be ideal for electrolyte levels to be low to use sodium as a transport though. Insulin does play a role in creatine transport as well.

The bottom line is the studies on creatine (that I have read) only talk about single rep max being improved, some have speculated that the strength gains from creatine are due to the water retention and nothing else.

To each his own, I think it's a waste of money however it's a HELL of alot cheaper now than it was when it first came out and I was using it.

 

[vadim_b1]

yeah i used a wrong choice of words.

For me however creatine is EXTREMELY effective, i almost never come off it, if i ever do the crash in strength and endurance is very noticeable.
and even if the performance increase is due to water retention, it is INTRACELLULAR water retention, which is exactly what we want, dont we?

 

[VitoBrata]

yeah i used a wrong choice of words.

For me however creatine is EXTREMELY effective, i almost never come off it, if i ever do the crash in strength and endurance is very noticeable.

Hmmm, It's been over 10 years since I used it, maybe I give it another try, it's cheap enough.

Do you load?

 

[vadim_b1]

nah

most of it comes from the pre/postworkout formulas i use anyway.

if i used straight mono, id just add 5-10 g to my PWO shake. Only way i ever did it.

 

[Crom]

For me creatine works very well but I do tend to hold a lot of water extracellulary in addition to intracellulary.

 

[witefall]

nice to see you back

I think it is worth taking on a keto diet, but I'm not a fan of taking creatine if one is using gear. I don't know if there is any research on it, but I worry about cardiovascular issue from all the excess water of creatine and gear at the same time. It may or may not matter, but it concerns me still.

 

[Gambel]

Its not acutalluy a hardcore keto diet Im doing but a softer one by the name of the Palumbo diet which has low carbs coming from green veg and nuts and instead of refeeds its just one cheat meal a week.

Dave Palumbo recommends 5 g of Creatine monohydrate twice a day. In my experience, I have noticed comparable strength and endurance benefits from taking Creatine on both a high-protein/mod-fat/low-carb as well as a high-protein/low-fat/mod-carb diet; however, on the lower carb diet I don't seem to have the same "pump" sensation when working out as I do when on a more moderate carb diet.