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Cycling Theories

DIEZEL666

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Has anyone ever heard of an old cycling theory where you would be on for 3 weeks, take a week off and start over? The rationale was that your body becomes used to the androgens at the 3 week mark, so taking some time off at this point would allow you to lose the water, and come back on in a week. It was supposed to allow you to be on year round and still make gains.
 

xcelbeyond

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One week off isn't much time. I'm following a modified Doggcrapp cycle and am on 4 and cruise for 3.

xcel
 

JustWannaBeHuge

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xcel, how's that working for you? and curious as to what amounts of test you're taking?


JW
 

drgoodbody

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Yup, me to Xcel - I'm trying the Doggcrapp style of cycle for the first time, although my choice of gear is bit long acting to do it perfectly.

First 4 weeks I ran:

Sustanon 1g/week
EQ 500mg/week
Tren 375mg/week
Arimidex 0.5mg ED
Nolvadex 10mg ED

I gained about 15lbs (at least 5 is water). Now I started my first cruise (as of yesterday 7/27) - I am using a 2 week cruise period.

Test Prop 200mg/week
Primobolan 100mg/week
HCG 1000IU/day in the middle 5 days of the 2 weeks
Clomid 50mg ED

Then I'm going back on the same gear as the first 4 weeks. Hopefully I'll be able to cycle like this longer with less suppression and generally feel better. Plus hopefully my receptors will respond better, longer. So far, so good. My BP is looking good and body fat has not exploded as my diet is clean and lipo (back in May) helped suck out a lot of the ab fat that I use to have.

BTW, the attached chart shows my approximate exogenous testosterone levels by day for 1 burst, 1 cruise, 2nd burst (after that it would just repeat). I also plotted a line for a single injection of Sustanon (pink line). See, I did a little analysis before starting! Notice that the test level peaks at each injection and the overall base test level increases throughout until my 2 week cruise (due to the long acting esters). During the cruise, the long esters in the Sustanon plus the Test prop hold me until my next 4 week burst. Hopefully I can cycle a long time like this without adverse side effects. I will be seeing my doctor on Aug. 14 to discuss and prolly get some bloodwork done.

later,

DrG
 

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xcelbeyond

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I did about 3 or 4 "on" cycles before I went into precontest mode. Seemed to work real well, which is why I just started up again today.

I do about 1g of TNE but am waiting on some powder so its prop this course, along with 800mg boldenone base. I seem to cruise just fine (after doing some experimentation) with 10mg AM only d-bol. I like to use fast-acting test like TNE or prop and mix in an anabolic like stanozolol, boldenone, d-bol, or tren + winny (I know - tren is not really an anabolic).

xcel
 

IronMike

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????

Dogcrapp's theories - have read em, but tell me and set me straight.

Do you think the 4 weeks on and cruise for 3 etc, couldn't you equate this to just being on for say 12 weeks or more, but on varying doses? I think it has a lot of merit for some psychologically in that you can definitely train ball-to-the-wall and eat like a horse for a month, then your discipline may waver.

Be interested to hear if lots of people here have had much experience with this method.

Although I'm keeping pretty light these days, I'm going to attempt to get in best condition ever at about my current weight, and I am going to use a technique something like the 8weeks on 4 weeks off three times in a row, the Trevor from NN (though I'm sure he didn't invent the theory) method. Basically very high androgens up front, dropping them out and then moving to short actings so you are clear one or two days after you stop.

Still, more on DC's theories?

Oh yeah, I don't believe 3 on and one off is really worth the bother. IronMike
 

titan

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I like Markus ruhl's theory
Low dose, 16-20wks, long break for full recovery.
Basics and length. I tried 5 on 4off shit, but lost and bloated.
 

MikeS

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I will be somple in my opinion. Im not talking about HPTA function or receptor upgrade/downgrade. Just gains plain and simple!
Short cycles suck. Long cycles (14wk+) even moderate doseage,
are best for gains.
Off time, I notice when Im off (I low dose oral bridge, so not really off) 8wks which is standard for me - after 5-6wks I begin to lose alot. Keep in mind my genetics suck and Im 44YO. I may take 6wks off/bridge this time.
 

DOGGCRAPP

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Titan::I like Markus ruhl's theory
Low dose, 16-20wks, long break for full recovery.
Basics and length. I tried 5 on 4off shit, but lost and bloated

Doggcrapp:: heres the question. Do you honestly believe Markus Ruhl has been off for any appreciable time in the last 5 years? Two to three contests a year with at least 8 week prep phases, lets say 15-25 guest posings a year, Fibo appearances, Weider appearances, gym openings, Flex magazine shoots--anyone see a picture of him looking smaller or smooth in the last 5 years??????


My whole methodism is based around keeping the HPTA functioning with frequent signals sent to it at various times. HPTA impairment is the direct reason why people go up and down like a yo yo, get sick, get injuries, low libido, appetite suppression, depression, lethargy, gain 25lbs on a cycle and then lose 22 of it --the whole crash effect. People want to do 18 week cycles and then dont even think of the crash from that. My methods have been up there for quite a while now--seen anyone complaining of crashing my way? Nolvadex effects the HPTA similiarly albeit slightly differently than Arimidex and clomid is also a different mechanism--using the 3 together with either 50mg of fast acting test eod or better yet 50mg of fast acting test faded down after one week into 1000IUs of hcg a day during cruises rectifies a whole slew of problems.
 

titan

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I could honestly care less is ruhl has ever been off.
I find that long cycles work better and allow me to keep alot of my gains. The main point on the htpa is why stike fast with high doses come off right away, let it recovery, kind of, and then hit it again. I understand your reasoning but I like long cycles.
 

patk

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I think that long cycles like 16 -20 weeks and then light bridge for say 8 weeks is more effective, that's what I've done in the past and works good for me. Most recently I went off completely from october to may......that's a real long time and I lost alot!!, but I had some health problems so had to do it in the best interest of my health. I would not go off like that again unless I had another health problem. I will continue to run long cycles and bridge. Just my .02


patk
 

raybravo

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doggcrapp's idea of cruising while using hcg , clomid etc is the best idea becos keeping up the Leydig cell volume is very important , treatment with hcg keeps up the capacity of the testes to secrete testosterone .

Endocrinology 1983 May;112(5):1763-9 Related Articles, Links


Effect of luteinizing hormone on Leydig cell structure and testosterone secretion.

Ewing LL, Wing TY, Cochran RC, Kromann N, Zirkin BR.

Hypophysectomy or sc implantation of testosterone-estradiol 17 beta (T-E) filled polydimethylsiloxane capsules for 5 days caused a dramatic reduction in testosterone secretion when testes subsequently were perfused in vitro. The diminution in testosterone-secreting capacity of testes from T-E treated rats was coupled closely with reductions in the membrane surface areas of Leydig cell cytoplasmic organelles, particularly those of the smooth endoplasmic reticulum. Simultaneous treatment of T-E implanted rats with LH (12 micrograms/day), but not with FSH, PRL, TSH, or GH, maintained both the Leydig-cell cytoplasmic membranes and the capacity of testes to secrete testosterone in vitro. Testosterone secretion by testes from hypophysectomized rats treated simultaneously with T-E plus LH was identical to that in control rats. Therefore, T-E did not inhibit directly the Leydig cell steroidogenic apparatus. Taken together these results suggest that one of the trophic effects of LH in the Leydig cell is to maintained the integrity of smooth endoplasmic reticulum and enzymes responsible for the conversion of pregnenolone to testosterone.
 

drgoodbody

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DC: I am into my first cruise and will start HCG in a few days, so far, so good. Just to confirm my understanding, my body obviously won't have a full recovery during cruise, but by giving myself a bit of break I ought to be able to run longer (overall I plan to do 3-4 on phases or more :D) and stay healthier while keeping sides (testicular atrophy, etc) under better control.

Question: How much does the varying hormone levels, 4 weeks up, 2 down, 4 up, etc... affect overall gains? I know a number of people (me included) argue for consistent blood levels to maximize gains. Any thoughts or experiences?

DrG
 

MikeS

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If continued HPTA function is maintained with exogenious LH (HCG), despite continued administration of Test (plus estro)-then why evewn bother to drop the dose in those weeks where you use HCG/clomid?
I mean just basically use HCG every 4wks or so during a 14wk+ cycle and youd receive the benefits of HPTA retention.
 

raybravo

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MikeS said:
If continued HPTA function is maintained with exogenious LH (HCG), despite continued administration of Test (plus estro)-then why evewn bother to drop the dose in those weeks where you use HCG/clomid?
I mean just basically use HCG every 4wks or so during a 14wk+ cycle and youd receive the benefits of HPTA retention.
yes i felt the same and asked DC this question , his response to this question was he felt that although there is no proof for this claim , definitely the amount of supression from 250 mg is lesser than say 2000 mg , so with his method , ure basically trying to simulate normal recovery conditions to the highest possible degree .
hope DC puts in his ideas further here .
 

jay_dub

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I dont believe Dante discusses this stuff anymore.

I do have a question though for anyone who's tried these methods, could a 8 week on, 4 week off work as well too? Or would 8 weeks be too long? The reason being I have no short acting stuff around right now.
 

chris250

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When I was working with DC, he recommended 8 weeks on with a 2 week cruise with HRT doses...

So you would blast for 6-8 weeks during your growth phase, then cruise for 2-3 weeks...

chris
 

kid1dakota

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When I was working with DC, he recommended 8 weeks on with a 2 week cruise with HRT doses...

So you would blast for 6-8 weeks during your growth phase, then cruise for 2-3 weeks...

chris
I have heard this but was curious about Which esters? could you use enth or cyp?
 

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