DECA for my osteoarthritis?

[dragonfire101]

In studies only 50mg DURABOLIN (Nandrolone decanoate) every 2-3 weeks was the protocol for treating women with osteoporosis.

Same on actual product insert for that purpose.

 

[fatcat669]

Actually, you want to hear the sad truth of it?

After reading here about Arteparon (the human version of Adequan), I was super excited, so I started doing some digging around, but couldn't find anything about who manufactures it.

I kept digging & finally got through to a senior pharmacist at a big corporation & he explained what happened to arteparon:

Apparently, there were 2 deaths that happened soon after Arteparon was first approved in Europe. One was an elderly diabetic lady who succombed to septicemia, most likely related to he diabetes. The other was an elderly man who had a lethal reaction, supposedly because of the Atreparon acting with another medication that the man was already taking. This happened right after the whole thalidamide thing happened, so the European public & their media were over-sensitive to the issue of drug safety & the maker of Atreparon withdrew it from the market.

So, from 2 deaths, one practically unrelated to arteparon & the other from a preventable drug reaction, one of humanitys' greatest tools in the fight against arthritis was lost.

I asked the pharmacist why nobody else ever tried getting Arteparon approved here in North America & he said there was no significant incentive. Looking at what horny & flacid old men are willing to pay Pfizer for Viagra, I think he's 100% wrong. I think most arthritis sufferers would pay a generous ransom to get freedom from joint pain.

thats sad (for both the dead and for all who suffer from joint problems and are relegated to using ineffectual painkillers) but interesting at the same time. i really appreciate this board and many of its members for exactly this reason. thanks for posting. ill update in a few weeks with my experience. hopefully i dont die or get mad cow disease.


;/

 

[fatcat669]

they took that stuff off the market in europe. it sounds dangerous and ineffective to me but who knows. good luck. http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/122/11/874

anectodal evidence says that it is effective and ive grown (perhaps stupidly) to trust some of what random people on bodybuilding messaging boards say. really what is my other option? listen to the doc and take up tennis and start downing extra strength advils 3x a day for rest of my life? im still young i dont plan to live forever but i wanna enjoy myself

 

[EasyEJL]

looks like the only major downside is the heparin-like activity of adequan, which isn't a problem unless somehow you get a major cut while you are using it.

 

[bodysculpt]

In studies only 50mg DURABOLIN (Nandrolone decanoate) every 2-3 weeks was the protocol for treating women with osteoporosis.

Same on actual product insert for that purpose.

thats interesting, would that still effect HPTA output... if at all?

 

[Nutsax]

In studies only 50mg DURABOLIN (Nandrolone decanoate) every 2-3 weeks was the protocol for treating women with osteoporosis.

Same on actual product insert for that purpose.

No doubt brother it works great. NPP works just as good as deca without the bloat for joint pain. 200mg and up works great for my 45 year old back and knees. I don't know what action leads to the relief but I know it works.

Just added cjc-1295/ghrp-6 5 weeks ago and it just keeps getting better.

Nutsax

 

[Newman]

they took that stuff off the market in europe. it sounds dangerous and ineffective to me but who knows. good luck. http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/122/11/874

If it were dangerous & innefective, they wouldn't be injecting it into horses. Ever priced out a horse lately? They're not cheap to buy or maintain.

It's also used for dogs & you know how people are about their pets.

In either case, if BSE ever likked a dog or horse, there would have been publicised lawsuits after the several thousand doses that have been administered by now.

BSE is pretty much a rarity anyway. How often does anyoene ever hear of outbreaks in the news? The beef industry has too much $$$ at stake to let BSE infect their cash crop of healthy cows.

I'm eventually going to try the Adequan Equine IM.

 

[Muay Thai]

No doubt brother it works great. NPP works just as good as deca without the bloat for joint pain. 200mg and up works great for my 45 year old back and knees. I don't know what action leads to the relief but I know it works.

Just added cjc-1295/ghrp-6 5 weeks ago and it just keeps getting better.

Nutsax

yeah but for therapeutic and medical prescriptions ND has a longer depot and is more tangible to be prescribed

 

[machola]

If it were dangerous & innefective, they wouldn't be injecting it into horses. Ever priced out a horse lately? They're not cheap to buy or maintain.

It's also used for dogs & you know how people are about their pets.

In either case, if BSE ever likked a dog or horse, there would have been publicised lawsuits after the several thousand doses that have been administered by now.

BSE is pretty much a rarity anyway. How often does anyoene ever hear of outbreaks in the news? The beef industry has too much $$$ at stake to let BSE infect their cash crop of healthy cows.

I'm eventually going to try the Adequan Equine IM.

the increased risk of bleeding is scary. the lack of human studies, information, and the fact that it was taken off the market in europe makes it dangerous. they took it off the market in europe. i would guess the reason was the bleeding problems... personally i'd never guinea pig a drug with so little research and with a known risk of hemorrhaging, but its your body and you can do what you like. i hope it goes well for you.

 

[EasyEJL]

the increased risk of bleeding is scary. the lack of human studies, information, and the fact that it was taken off the market in europe makes it dangerous. they took it off the market in europe. i would guess the reason was the bleeding problems... personally i'd never guinea pig a drug with so little research and with a known risk of hemorrhaging, but its your body and you can do what you like. i hope it goes well for you.

there were human studies, because it was used as a pharmaceutical in europe. There are products that were available in the US that have been taken off the market here, but are still sold in europe. Does that make them dangerous? They took it off the market over 2 deaths in elderly patients (70+) who received intra-articular injections while having severe inflammation spikes in those same joints. No similar issues ever noted in humans, dogs or horses with IM injections, no evidence of deaths in any animals. After those deaths, they revised the usage information for the animal product to include some specific verbiage about that type of usage. This product has been in use 20+ years I believe at this point. I'll admit the heparin like blood thinning/anti-clotting is a matter for concern, but taken in reasonable doses per kg of mass its not going to cause hemorrhaging.

Its amazing to me that people will talk about safety of pharmaceutical products, and then a breath later be getting ready to use tren, or any UG product. When you use any of those whether oral or injected, you can't even be sure what you think you are taking is what you are taking. At least with using something like adequan there is direct treatment for issues if they were to occur because you know what you took in.

 

[Newman]

there were human studies, because it was used as a pharmaceutical in europe. There are products that were available in the US that have been taken off the market here, but are still sold in europe. Does that make them dangerous? They took it off the market over 2 deaths in elderly patients (70+) who received intra-articular injections while having severe inflammation spikes in those same joints. No similar issues ever noted in humans, dogs or horses with IM injections, no evidence of deaths in any animals. After those deaths, they revised the usage information for the animal product to include some specific verbiage about that type of usage. This product has been in use 20+ years I believe at this point. I'll admit the heparin like blood thinning/anti-clotting is a matter for concern, but taken in reasonable doses per kg of mass its not going to cause hemorrhaging.

Its amazing to me that people will talk about safety of pharmaceutical products, and then a breath later be getting ready to use tren, or any UG product. When you use any of those whether oral or injected, you can't even be sure what you think you are taking is what you are taking. At least with using something like adequan there is direct treatment for issues if they were to occur because you know what you took in.

Damn you beat me to it! Took the words right out of my mouth!

Oh well...

(On a side note, maybe the blood thinning effect would be a bonus to reduce the higher blood pressure caused by some types of AAS)

 

[EasyEJL]

i'm touchy about it today because when (on another board) someone asked about favorite PWO meals and I gave fluffernutters as the response, I got the "how could anyone who is a bodybuilder eat something so unhealthy" and so i'm a little extra irritated at the idea that someone can pop T3/T4 tabs and clenbuterol during PCT for a test/tren/halotestin cycle and thats ok, but marshmallow fluff is unsafe

 

[Muay Thai]

i'm touchy about it today because when (on another board) someone asked about favorite PWO meals and I gave fluffernutters as the response, I got the "how could anyone who is a bodybuilder eat something so unhealthy" and so i'm a little extra irritated at the idea that someone can pop T3/T4 tabs and clenbuterol during PCT for a test/tren/halotestin cycle and thats ok, but marshmallow fluff is unsafe

fluffernutters have you tried nutterbutters? this sounds like willy wonka ;]do they make an everlasting fluffernutter?

 

[machola]

there were human studies, because it was used as a pharmaceutical in europe.

how many studies were there? how many people were involved in the study?

There are products that were available in the US that have been taken off the market here, but are still sold in europe. Does that make them dangerous?

it makes it very questionable and i would definitely look into why it was removed from the market

They took it off the market over 2 deaths in elderly patients (70+) who received intra-articular injections while having severe inflammation spikes in those same joints. No similar issues ever noted in humans, dogs or horses with IM injections, no evidence of deaths in any animals. After those deaths, they revised the usage information for the animal product to include some specific verbiage about that type of usage. This product has been in use 20+ years I believe at this point. I'll admit the heparin like blood thinning/anti-clotting is a matter for concern, but taken in reasonable doses per kg of mass its not going to cause hemorrhaging

well it sounds like you have all definite answers here. very impressive

Its amazing to me that people will talk about safety of pharmaceutical products, and then a breath later be getting ready to use tren, or any UG product. When you use any of those whether oral or injected, you can't even be sure what you think you are taking is what you are taking.

you're talking to the wrong guy. i've never touched tren, deca, eq, 17a orals, or hgh... well, i wish you all the best with your experiments. i see i made a lot of friends here by being the voice of reason

 

[Michael]

Studies

Found this regarding Adequan/Arteparon, check it out. Good read.

http://www.chiro.org/nutrition/FULL/Reversal_of_Osteoarthritis.shtml

 

[Newman]

the increased risk of bleeding is scary. the lack of human studies, information, and the fact that it was taken off the market in europe makes it dangerous. they took it off the market in europe. i would guess the reason was the bleeding problems...

It sounds like you're a naturally fearful person who thinks they are just being prudent.

Look at your thinking;

"I would GUESS the reason was the bleeding problems..."

If you DIDN'T do any REAL research, then why form a conclusion?

I spoke with a senoir pharmacist at the company that actually makes the stuff. He told me the details...

Sure you could say that he was profit motivated, but that would be inacurrate since there's no pharmacy in N. America or Europe that sells Arteparon.

If you can't admit error or prejudice, then that's okay. I already have the pertinant facts for my own conclusions.

P.S. I mean you no offense, but after I already explained the important details earlier & I see that you're still pretending to have an argument left, then I have no time to continue arguing against irrational emotion based denial.

Peace.

 

[machola]

It sounds like you're a naturally fearful person who thinks they are just being prudent.

Look at your thinking;

"I would GUESS the reason was the bleeding problems..."

If you DIDN'T do any REAL research, then why form a conclusion?

I spoke with a senoir pharmacist at the company that actually makes the stuff. He told me the details...

Sure you could say that he was profit motivated, but that would be inacurrate since there's no pharmacy in N. America or Europe that sells Arteparon.

If you can't admit error or prejudice, then that's okay. I already have the pertinant facts for my own conclusions.

P.S. I mean you no offense, but after I already explained the important details earlier & I see that you're still pretending to have an argument left, then I have no time to continue arguing against irrational emotion based denial.

Peace.

so you got info from the company that sells it and you believe it blindly. thats not research. thats being a sucker... with all these bitchy shots you take at me in this post it sounds like your the one with the emotion in this... i'm sure its just me, EMEA, and the FDA that think its dangerous lol.:'heeky-sm

 

[EasyEJL]

so you got info from the company that sells it and you believe it blindly. thats not research. thats being a sucker... with all these bitchy shots you take at me in this post it sounds like your the one with the emotion in this... i'm sure its just me, EMEA, and the FDA that think its dangerous lol.:'heeky-sm

The FDA thinks P5P is dangerous, yet more people end up in an emergency room every year over issues with multivitamins or tylenol than do with steroids. More people die every year from water poisoning (not poisoned water, but drinking excess water) than have died from this product, so is water not safe?

Your "voice of reason" is a "voice of caution". Which is fine if you don't have debilitating joint issues, but as with all medications (heck all of life) its about risk vs reward. Thats where true reason comes into play, is for me in this circumstance the odds of rewards worth the risks of negative consequences.

 

[hypochondriac]

I have arthritis in my neck and my knees are bad as well. I feel a hell of a lot better when I'm on deca... I've proved it to myself too many times to not believe that it doesn't help.

 

[hypochondriac]

In studies only 50mg DURABOLIN (Nandrolone decanoate) every 2-3 weeks was the protocol for treating women with osteoporosis.

Same on actual product insert for that purpose.

I was just wondering if it would help my 82 year old mother... Thanks