DECA for my osteoarthritis?

[Michael]

I was going to give Deca@400mgs/wk a try for my osteoarthritis, as it stores more water in the connective tissues. Do I still need to overcompensate my calories to get the relief I need in my joints from this ammount of Deca? Thanks in advance.

 

[machola]

keep us posted plz. im interested in hearing if this works.

 

[N623]

Hey bro, I have severe arthritis and this was a big issue in my decision to start Deca. You don't need 400 a week, I started at 200 and bumped to 400 just cause I was diggin it. I'm certain 100 would do it just fine. At 200 I couldn't remember feeling so good! Be warned...Deca dick will happen. You can IM me for my viagra source. Start at a lower dose, give it 4 weeks and up it if you need to. At a lower dose it also becomes more affordable to use human grade. Good luck and keep us posted.





Pray for peace

 

[Muay Thai]

yes it induces collagen synthesis and uptakes synovialfluid in joints

 

[Newman]

yes it induces collagen synthesis and uptakes synovialfluid in joints

I keep reading annecdotal statements about Deca & EQ doing that, but I can't seem to find any papers to prove it.

I'm not arguing against it, I actually hope it's true, I just can't seem to find any proof, that's all.

Does anyone know of any published scientific reference material on the topic?

 

[machola]

I keep reading annecdotal statements about Deca & EQ doing that, but I can't seem to find any papers to prove it.

I'm not arguing against it, I actually hope it's true, I just can't seem to find any proof, that's all.

Does anyone know of any published scientific reference material on the topic?

i haven't seen any yet and i don't believe the claims. i think the joints feel better due to something else, maybe antiinflammatoy action or something.

 

[Newman]

i haven't seen any yet and i don't believe the claims. i think the joints feel better due to something else, maybe antiinflammatoy action or something.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I really hope you are wrong.

I had hopes that an AAS existed that could effectively counter the inhibitory effect that larger doses of test have on collagen synthesis.

I read that under 200mg/week actually increases collagen production, but after about 200mg/week, then the larger doses paradoxically start inhibiting collagen.

Aside from the obvious strain that lifting heavy weights imposes on joints/tendons/ligaments, I can't help but wonder whether higher doses of test have been partly to blame for the connective tissue tears we keep hearing about?

 

[EasyEJL]

Collagen synthesis in postmenopausal women during therapy with anabolic steroid or female sex hormones.

Hassager C, Jensen LT, Pødenphant J, Riis BJ, Christiansen C.
Department of Clinical Chemistry, Glostrup Hospital, University of Copenhagen, Denmark.
The effect of anabolic steroid therapy and estrogen-progestogen substitution therapy on serum concentration of procollagen type III aminoterminal peptide (PIIINP), a measure of collagen synthesis, in postmenopausal women was studied in two double-blind studies: (1) 39 women allocated to treatment with either 50 mg nandrolone decanoate as an intramuscular depot or placebo injections every third week for 1 year, and (2) 40 women allocated to receive either 2 mg 17 beta-estradiol plus 1 mg norethisterone acetate daily or placebo tablets for 1 year. Serum PIIINP was measured every 3 months during the study. Anabolic steroid therapy resulted in a more than 50% increase (P less than .001) in serum PIIINP at 3 months, which thereafter decayed but remained significantly increased throughout the study period. Serum PIIINP showed the same pattern during estrogen-progestogen therapy, but to a lesser degree. We conclude that anabolic steroids stimulate type III collagen synthesis in postmenopausal women, while estrogen-progestogen therapy may have such an effect, but only to a lesser degree.

Heres 1 at least. My HRT doctor is willing to prescribe 200mg of nandrolone a week.

 

[Muay Thai]

i haven't seen any yet and i don't believe the claims. i think the joints feel better due to something else, maybe antiinflammatoy action or something.

what planet are you from

check out the NEW ENGLAND MEDICAL JOURNALS or PUBMED

its not a NSAID or corticosteroid ( anti inflammitories)

its an ANABOLIC and ANDROGENIC Steroid

most anabolism supports collagen synthesis !

 

[Michael]

Hi Bro's, thanks for your input. Just wondering as no ones mentioned it but do I need the extra cals for Deca to work it's magic on joints, synovial fluid & cartilage?

 

[EasyEJL]

I wouldn't think you need extra, but make sure to be on a good well rounded diet, and wouldnt hurt to make sure you keep levels of glucosamine, chondroitin, etc high as well.

 

[Newman]

I wouldn't think you need extra, but make sure to be on a good well rounded diet, and wouldnt hurt to make sure you keep levels of glucosamine, chondroitin, etc high as well.

That makes sense.

After all, as long as Michael is getting enough calories to prevent his body from canibalizing his protiens, then he should be able to synthesize protein.

There's no reason to consume mega calories, a reasonable BBing surplus should be fine.

 

[Muay Thai]

That makes sense.

After all, as long as Michael is getting enough calories to prevent his body from canibalizing his protiens, then he should be able to synthesize protein.

There's no reason to consume mega calories, a reasonable BBing surplus should be fine.

lol its CATABOLIZING

 

[Newman]

Check out the NEW ENGLAND MEDICAL JOURNALS or PUBMED.

Most anabolism supports collagen synthesis!

Thanx Muay Thai.

I tried a Google check before, but couldn't seem to find any specific results.

Maybe I should check again adding those journals in the search terms...

 

[EDED]

what planet are you from

check out the NEW ENGLAND MEDICAL JOURNALS or PUBMED

its not a NSAID or corticosteroid ( anti inflammitories)

its an ANABOLIC and ANDROGENIC Steroid

most anabolism supports collagen synthesis !

you make it so easy

according to what you said, why cant he take highly anabolic winny for his joints then? or any anabolics?

show me some research done on nandrolone on its action on GR and PR and estrogen response and your claim of joint fluid secretion please....

easy's study sums up nandrolone as 'anabolic steroids' in the end, that means they just picked nandrolone for no good reason and lumping it as anabolics. they didnt specifically said only nandrlone does this or that, i would like to see different anabolics used to test for collagen synthesis,,,you probably wont find it.

also what do you think your body does when one side of hormone gets spiked super high? have you thought of progesterone agonism, antagonism, cortisol production and how AAS affects it, and how progesterone can be metabolized into cortisol, does nandrolone or other progestin break down to cortisol? deca causes bloating and gyno, is it estrogen or both estrogen and cortisol related? what about binding proteins such as cbg, shbg? PR, GR, ER they all can be used by T, E, P, C molecules to be occupied all depends on the amount of whats floating nearby. I only get zits from progestins, tren or deca,,,not estrogen related because i have done high dose t and got bloated but never acne like tren/deca,,what else causes acne? stress. CRH, ACTH cortisol malfunction? find a cure for acne you will be a billionaire.

not that simple.

machola who knows really? you could be right or wrong. not that many people will be wiilling to study specific effects, there are far more studies done on aas detection than its action,,,due to legality and all the forms you have to fill out to obtain test samples and shit.

forget about all this nit picking shit and just do it!

hahahhah whatever that means.

 

[machola]

what planet are you from

i know you're a hard west coast thug and all but there's no need for that... leave that nonsense on getbig or bb.com

yes it induces collagen synthesis and uptakes synovialfluid in joints

show me where deca increases synovial fluid.:food-:mil

 

[Newman]

lol its CATABOLIZING

LOL, I knew that, but I chose the non-technical term "canibalizing" because I wanted to differentiate tissue wasting caused from the body lacking adequate colrie intake versus tissue wasting caused from other factors like stress related corisol increases...

 

[Newman]

i know you're a hard west coast thug and all but there's no need for that... leave that nonsense on getbig or bb.com

I agree. BBing forums are for learning & sharing, not insulting each other.
I agree. BBing forums are for learning & sharing, not insulting each other.

I know that some AAS reduce collagen & I've heard that some AAS increase collagen, but finding documented proof to use as rough guidance hasn't been as easy as finding annecdotal opinions.

I am impressed by Easy EJLs study reference though. Sure it was menopausal women, but their still human & since the doses were tiny, I think that Deca in our usual dose range should be good for tendon/ligament growth.



Show me where deca increases synovial fluid.:food-:mil

I'm unaware of anything about Deca building Synovial fluid, but there's a vetrinary product called Adequan that rebuilds dammaged cartillage & replaces lost synovial fluid.

It's for dogs & horses. It's probably not approved for humans because of all the money that it would cost the pain medication industry...

*

 

[EasyEJL]

well, that looks interesting

Adequan/Arteparon is a substance available to combat joint pain. They are the same substance only named differently because one is for humans (Arteparon) and one for animals (Adequan) and both are registered brand names. They are available as an oral (hard to find) a IM injectable and a IA injectable (easy to find under Adequan).

What it is
Glucosamine sulfate (GS) is a naturally occurring part of joint cartilage and forerunner for and stimulant of proteoglycan synthesis and the making of GAG which is necessary for development of the white fibrocartilage of the disc. Unlike NSAIDs which relieve symptoms of and , over time, accelerate the destruction of , degenerative joint and disc disease, glucosamine has been shown in experiments to slow the progression of the degenerative disease and promote repair of affected cartilage:

What they claim it does

First, Adequan has important antiinflammatory effects, so it is able to provide relief from the symptoms of joint damage: heat, swelling, pain and lameness. And Adequan can be found in synovial fluid at full therapeutic levels within only two hours of an intramuscular injection. Also, Adequan is a product with potent ability to block the action of the destructive enzymes that threaten to perpetuate the joint inflammation, attack the cartilage and break down synovial fluid.

Second, Adequan also stimulates the synovial membrane to manufacture new, viscous synovial fluid to replace the thin fluid that was produced when the joint became injured. By improving this fluid, Adequan helps the joint regain its ability to lubricate and guard itself against further inflammation, and helps reestablish nutrition to the cartilage.

And, Adequan attaches itself to damaged cartilage where it has a positive effect on cartilage metabolism. This should favor the cartilage repair process.

Adequan is the only joint treatment proven to reduce the inflammation and pain of degenerative joint disease, but also to help stop the degenerative process while stimulating the production of new joint fluid and new cartilage components. You are no longer just treating symptoms: you're doing something to help stop the degenerative process.

Theorys behind its use
**broken link removed**
http://www.redwings.org/HTMLarts/revoa2a.htm

Dosing for humans
6 injections with 125 mg/0.5 ml intraarticularly 1 a week
10 injections with 125 mg/0.5 ml IM 1 a week
500 mg GS three times per day orally for a minimum of six weeks

Arteparon has been used in veterinary medicine in Europe for over two decades for treatment of degenerative joint disease. The drug is administered directly into the diseased joint to improve functional properties of the cartilage and to stimulate cartilage metabolism. The effect of Arteparon administered intraarticularly or intramuscularly has also been investigated in humans with osteoarthritis of hip-joints. Patients received either six injections with 125 mg/0.5 ml intraarticularly or 10 injections with 125 mg/0.5 ml IM. Reduction of pain, and improved function and motility of the treated hip-joints was observed, and results were similar irrespective of the method of administration.

 

[Newman]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Awesome info!!! Michael I hope you're reading this!!!

(In case anyone thinks I'm over-reacting, I've been suffering with a couple old joint injuries for quite a while. Easys' find of the human version is pretty important to me. I'll definately see my doctor for some of that!)