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Devastating....horrible beyond belief

b-boy

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226,000 raised so far....that is freaking awesome, just goes to show the respect people have for you when you are an OUTSTANDING HUMAN BEING 👏
 

OuchThatHurts

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226,000 raised so far....that is freaking awesome, just goes to show the respect people have for you when you are an OUTSTANDING HUMAN BEING
That's fantastic!!!
 

iron lifter

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John was on baby aspirin daily after his heart attack no? would that not have bene enough to prevent blood clots?
 

MyNameIsJeff

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John was on baby aspirin daily after his heart attack no? would that not have bene enough to prevent blood clots?
We don't know that it was a blood clot. Considering all the anticoagulants he was on, it seems rather unlikely.

Instead, a fatal arrhythmia seems more probable. In one of his recent interviews, John mentioned that he regained some function of his left-ventricle. Sounds good on the surface, but it's also a recipe for the scarred muscle tissue to misfire, resulting in ventricular tachyarrhythmia. It's something that a competent doctor would look out for. Unfortunately John surrounded himself with quacks who shared his passion for bodybuilding but are incompetent as physicians.

I wish he had had the medical supervision he needed, that he perhaps had gotten an implantable defibrillator, or wore a heart rate monitor with alert function. As bodybuilders, we rely too much on blood work and medication, even though it paints a very incomplete picture of one's health.

John will be missed, but he has left a legacy in the sport and has put his children on a good path. There is much he has achieved in his lifetime, and we should celebrate his life as much as we mourn his loss.
 

Sides

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Once again, for those who have not yet donated, please consider making a donation in memory of John, our fallen brother. His family will undoubtedly miss him, and we can do little for that. But at least we can do our part to make sure that his wife and especially that his children shall never have to endure any financial burden due to his passing.

Please give what you can, to his family from our family.


 

DOGGCRAPP

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I cannot get over the number of people in the last two years that have PMed me on instagram that have gotten blood clots. One IFBB pro had a massive problem because he has both Factor V Leiden (unknown at that time) and got Covid....a couple months later he had a DVT in his leg that seriously put him in incredible danger. And I am seeing it time and time again...and yes some of it is covid. But alot of it of late seems to be that alot of bodybuilders have Factor V Leiden or Prothombin II and dont know it. I want you guys to realize how prevalent this is.
In the caucasian population 3-8% of people have Factor V Leiden (lets call it 5%), so you have a 1 out of 20 chance of having it.
In the caucasion population 2-4% of people have the Prothombin II mutation so you have a 1 out of 25 to 1 out of 50 chance of having it.

If you get Factor V Leiden genetically from one parent thats bad enough, you get it from two parents, your chances of getting blood clots go up exponentially.

You take those clotting mutations as bodybuilders who are ramping up their hematocrit on a regular basis to 55 and above by TRT or even moreso likely blasting compounds (steroids) that greatly increase RBC's, and you ARE ASKING FOR A RECIPE FOR a life changing or life ending clot. The clotting disorder really changes the whole likelihood of that. And alot more people have no idea they have it than everyone realizes. I absolutely guarantee (GUARANTEE) that people who will read this very post have it and dont know it.

I tested myself a while back for both Factor V Leiden and Prothombin II mutations (thankfully both negative) and clotting times (PTT/INR/PT) (again perfectly normal)

An alternative plan for the links above were what I did and thats

Walkinlab.com and its called "Factor V Leiden Mutation Analysis Blood Test" and the sku is 17900 the price with a coupon was $227.80

I went thru Directlabs.com for the Prothombin II and clotting time analysis (but you actually go to Quest Labs and you can see the results either on Quest Labs or Direct Labs)... that was called "Prothrombin Time (PT) and Partial Thromboplastin Time (PTT) $43 and "Prothrombin (Factor II) 20210G A Mutation Analysis $239"

Yes its expensive. But with your life at sake and seeing what Maldorf and Emeric have been through and the various people (especially on this board, number of guys have died from clots, one of the last ones was Conrad Emmons known as Thor).... its worth the peace of mind (especially if your enhanced and might be playing Russian Roulette without knowing it.



 

maldorf

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John was on baby aspirin daily after his heart attack no? would that not have bene enough to prevent blood clots?
Needed something like coumadin or Eliquis.
 

emeric delczeg

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I cannot get over the number of people in the last two years that have PMed me on instagram that have gotten blood clots. One IFBB pro had a massive problem because he has both Factor V Leiden (unknown at that time) and got Covid....a couple months later he had a DVT in his leg that seriously put him in incredible danger. And I am seeing it time and time again...and yes some of it is covid. But alot of it of late seems to be that alot of bodybuilders have Factor V Leiden or Prothombin II and dont know it. I want you guys to realize how prevalent this is.
In the caucasian population 3-8% of people have Factor V Leiden (lets call it 5%), so you have a 1 out of 20 chance of having it.
In the caucasion population 2-4% of people have the Prothombin II mutation so you have a 1 out of 25 to 1 out of 50 chance of having it.

If you get Factor V Leiden genetically from one parent thats bad enough, you get it from two parents, your chances of getting blood clots go up exponentially.

You take those clotting mutations as bodybuilders who are ramping up their hematocrit on a regular basis to 55 and above by TRT or even moreso likely blasting compounds (steroids) that greatly increase RBC's, and you ARE ASKING FOR A RECIPE FOR a life changing or life ending clot. The clotting disorder really changes the whole likelihood of that. And alot more people have no idea they have it than everyone realizes. I absolutely guarantee (GUARANTEE) that people who will read this very post have it and dont know it.

I tested myself a while back for both Factor V Leiden and Prothombin II mutations (thankfully both negative) and clotting times (PTT/INR/PT) (again perfectly normal)

An alternative plan for the links above were what I did and thats

Walkinlab.com and its called "Factor V Leiden Mutation Analysis Blood Test" and the sku is 17900 the price with a coupon was $227.80

I went thru Directlabs.com for the Prothombin II and clotting time analysis (but you actually go to Quest Labs and you can see the results either on Quest Labs or Direct Labs)... that was called "Prothrombin Time (PT) and Partial Thromboplastin Time (PTT) $43 and "Prothrombin (Factor II) 20210G A Mutation Analysis $239"

Yes its expensive. But with your life at sake and seeing what Maldorf and Emeric have been through and the various people (especially on this board, number of guys have died from clots, one of the last ones was Conrad Emmons known as Thor).... its worth the peace of mind (especially if your enhanced and might be playing Russian Roulette without knowing it.



I would like to add that, if any of you test positive for factor V (5) forget about going over 70mg test per week.
 

xpoc

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I cannot get over the number of people in the last two years that have PMed me on instagram that have gotten blood clots. One IFBB pro had a massive problem because he has both Factor V Leiden (unknown at that time) and got Covid....a couple months later he had a DVT in his leg that seriously put him in incredible danger. And I am seeing it time and time again...and yes some of it is covid. But alot of it of late seems to be that alot of bodybuilders have Factor V Leiden or Prothombin II and dont know it. I want you guys to realize how prevalent this is.
In the caucasian population 3-8% of people have Factor V Leiden (lets call it 5%), so you have a 1 out of 20 chance of having it.
In the caucasion population 2-4% of people have the Prothombin II mutation so you have a 1 out of 25 to 1 out of 50 chance of having it.

If you get Factor V Leiden genetically from one parent thats bad enough, you get it from two parents, your chances of getting blood clots go up exponentially.

You take those clotting mutations as bodybuilders who are ramping up their hematocrit on a regular basis to 55 and above by TRT or even moreso likely blasting compounds (steroids) that greatly increase RBC's, and you ARE ASKING FOR A RECIPE FOR a life changing or life ending clot. The clotting disorder really changes the whole likelihood of that. And alot more people have no idea they have it than everyone realizes. I absolutely guarantee (GUARANTEE) that people who will read this very post have it and dont know it.

I tested myself a while back for both Factor V Leiden and Prothombin II mutations (thankfully both negative) and clotting times (PTT/INR/PT) (again perfectly normal)

An alternative plan for the links above were what I did and thats

Walkinlab.com and its called "Factor V Leiden Mutation Analysis Blood Test" and the sku is 17900 the price with a coupon was $227.80

I went thru Directlabs.com for the Prothombin II and clotting time analysis (but you actually go to Quest Labs and you can see the results either on Quest Labs or Direct Labs)... that was called "Prothrombin Time (PT) and Partial Thromboplastin Time (PTT) $43 and "Prothrombin (Factor II) 20210G A Mutation Analysis $239"

Yes its expensive. But with your life at sake and seeing what Maldorf and Emeric have been through and the various people (especially on this board, number of guys have died from clots, one of the last ones was Conrad Emmons known as Thor).... its worth the peace of mind (especially if your enhanced and might be playing Russian Roulette without knowing it.




Lets assume you test positive. What do you do? I am assuming you go on blood thinners and drop test altogether? But in JM's case wasn't he already on blood thinners, and I read he was off TRT (at least for a while). I guess what I am really asking is, why not play it safe and just assume you are positive? And if you are positive what do you do about it? Why even dabble with 10mg of test per day? Why not drop it altogether? Or does it even matter?​
 

maldorf

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Lets assume you test positive. What do you do? I am assuming you go on blood thinners and drop test altogether? But in JM's case wasn't he already on blood thinners, and I read he was off TRT (at least for a while). I guess what I am really asking is, why not play it safe and just assume you are positive? And if you are positive what do you do about it? Why even dabble with 10mg of test per day? Why not drop it altogether? Or does it even matter?​
If you are positive, you drop all steroids except for testosterone and then only if your natural testosterone never recovers. If you have to, take trt through your doctor and be professionally monitored. Be in normal range.

You only go on anticoagulation therapy if you have had a clot. People with factor 2 or 5 don't go on those drugs prophylacticaly unless they have had a clot. Both my mother and her brother, my uncle, are good examples. They both have factor 2, prothrombin disorder, but have never had a clot or any problems. She is 81 and he is 85 now. They didn't know they had the trait until I told them to test for it after my heart attack.

Chances are I would have been ok if I'd not used steroids, I'd been like them. I mention all of this to serve as a good example.

We should be clear that we dont even know for sure that John had a clotting disorder or died from a clot. I think I already mentioned how I worry he might have gone into v tach then v fib in his sleep. We just don't know.
 

xpoc

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If you are positive, you drop all steroids except for testosterone and then only if your natural testosterone never recovers. If you have to, take trt through your doctor and be professionally monitored. Be in normal range.

You only go on anticoagulation therapy if you have had a clot. People with factor 2 or 5 don't go on those drugs prophylacticaly unless they have had a clot. Both my mother and her brother, my uncle, are good examples. They both have factor 2, prothrombin disorder, but have never had a clot or any problems. She is 81 and he is 85 now. They didn't know they had the trait until I told them to test for it after my heart attack.

Chances are I would have been ok if I'd not used steroids, I'd been like them. I mention all of this to serve as a good example.

We should be clear that we dont even know for sure that John had a clotting disorder or died from a clot. I think I already mentioned how I worry he might have gone into v tach then v fib in his sleep. We just don't know.

See #1 above. I believe John quit TRT then went back on it, under doc supervision. My point is, if you have it (clotting factor) ...why be on TRT at all? I am now wondering out loud if TRT is not inherently bad for all and we simply justify it for cosmetic purposes. Not trying to start an argument because I am sure this touches a nerve with 96% of the members on this board who are somehow enhanced. But lets be real with ourselves...if a guy who was under the top doctors care, who paid close attention to all his lipids, was considered one of the most knowledgeable guys in our sport can still pass away at 49, what makes any of us think we could do it better?
 

MR. BMJ

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Why is it that people with these clotting disorders, or at risk in general of clots, do not 'usually' have issues until they are of 'older' age? Or rather, why does it not effect them at younger ages as much as an older age?

I could probably look this up, but tossing it out there to see what others know here.

Or is this an invalid question?
 

whatsupfister

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It's important we take all this into perspective based on facts and not the blending of facts with the omission of facts. There are no published studies linking legit TRT, meaning 125 mg of testosterone weekly or less to heart failure, blood clots or any other detrimental outcome. (Unless you have a genetic predisposition to blood clots) To say low dose testosterone causes these issues, is to say that any healthy 20 year old is at risk for sudden death based on their bodies normal healthy testosterone levels. Think about teenagers who get massive spikes of test that end up developing gyno, yeah, gyno, from natural testosterone levels spiking and estrogen levels increasing to compensate. Same thing happens synthetically. If this were not true, than the drug testosterone, is the only bio identical drug known to man that causes unnatural bio identical side effects. Woman on birth control are at greater risk or at best the same risk level for blood clots, as men who are on TRT.

JM was on low dose testosterone, but the elephant in the room seems to be getting over looked. JM had a near fatal heart attack last year that severely damaged his heart, so much so that ever since JM had his heart attack, he was going against the medical community consensus regarding EF levels. "The effectiveness of implantable cardioverter-defibrillators (ICDs) for primary prevention of sudden death in patients with an ejection fraction (EF) ≤35% and clinical heart failure is well established." JM admits openly that his EF was below the 35% threshold and he was scared to get an ICD Implanted. (Not blaming the guy, that has to be an insanely scary decision to make). My point is, JM didn't die suddenly because his test levels were between 800-1000 nanograms per deciliter, it's because JM had a heart that could give out at any moment, due to the massive damage he took from last year's heart attack. Not to mention the fact that JM had for absolute certain, a blood clotting disorder.

There is a list of risk factors for blood clots from the Mayo Clinic.

  1. Being overweight or obese. Being overweight increases the pressure in the veins in your pelvis and legs. JM was considered obese, as is everyone in this forum.
  2. Heart failure. This increases your risk of DVT and pulmonary embolism. Because people with heart failure have limited heart and lung function, the symptoms caused by even a small pulmonary embolism are more noticeable. (JM had an EF less than 35%, and his left ventricle was mainly dead. His words, not mine)
  3. Bowel diseases, such as Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis, increase the risk of DVT. (JM had a more rare, more dangerous bowel disease than the ones listed.)
  4. Birth control pills (oral contraceptives) or hormone replacement therapy. Both can increase your blood's ability to clot. (Again, the risk for hormones is only noted because TRT and BC are not standard issue, people get over dosed prescriptions, or their bodies have over reactions to hormone replacement. If hormones are regulated to a natural level, these issues are not present.)
  5. A personal or family history of DVT or PE. If you or someone in your family has had one or both of these, you might be at greater risk of developing DVT. "Have a history of clots? You’re likely to get them again. One-third of people who get a DVT/PE will have another one within 10 years. Often, says Burgwinkle, this is because the blood clots form around the valves of a vein, which can damage it. In some cases, this can lead to multiple clots over time. More and more we're seeing that this can be more of a chronic disease, rather than an acute episode.”
  6. And the last one which we are speculating is Genetics. Some people inherit genetic risk factors or disorders, such as factor V Leiden, that make their blood clot more easily. An inherited disorder on its own might not cause blood clots unless combined with one or more other risk factors.

So if we set aside Genetics, JM still had 5 out of the 13 known causes of blood clots. If he did in fact have a genetic disorder, than he would have had half of the known risk factors associated with blood clots, that's alot of risk. To say that an other wise perfectly healthy human with no risk factors is rolling the dice from taking TRT, is going up up and away overboard.

On the other hand of this discussion, I get what some are worried about, trust me so am I. But the sad truth is, I know more people that die from diseases that they never should have had, lung cancer and never smoking, heart attacks with no drug use or other known risk factors, blood cancer, breast cancer, etc etc. Education and mitigation are essential to live a long life, and some how at the same time they are absolutely worthless. My advice for peace of mind would be to get genetic testing, know your family history, and do annual blood work. This goes for people on and off gear. Again I know far more people (not on gear) who have died preventable deaths because they never go to the doctor, than I do gym rats that get bloods done and see the doctor regularly.

We're all heart broken, JM was such a good guy that we all are reflecting on our own lives. I've done some amazing shit in my life, but I can promise you if I died tomorrow, no one here on this board would ever know. JM is and will forever be a legend. He transcended his influence and knowledge to people from all walks of Life. Unfortunately, life isn't fair, and if it was, JM would have lived forever.
 

Dugbet

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Are we losing our lives just for the purpose of prolonging life or caring for health to unsuspected limits?

If every human being on this planet had to take care of all risk factors, genetic or not, for possible illness or death, life would be hell due to all the stress that individual would have to endure.

It gets even worse if you are a pro bodybuilder or athlete.

Dorian Yates made it clear: take calculated risks. That means that he was on the tightrope and was taking the risk of a fatal fall.

Absolute security is a pipe dream, and it is not even desirable.
 

maldorf

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It's important we take all this into perspective based on facts and not the blending of facts with the omission of facts. There are no published studies linking legit TRT, meaning 125 mg of testosterone weekly or less to heart failure, blood clots or any other detrimental outcome. (Unless you have a genetic predisposition to blood clots) To say low dose testosterone causes these issues, is to say that any healthy 20 year old is at risk for sudden death based on their bodies normal healthy testosterone levels. Think about teenagers who get massive spikes of test that end up developing gyno, yeah, gyno, from natural testosterone levels spiking and estrogen levels increasing to compensate. Same thing happens synthetically. If this were not true, than the drug testosterone, is the only bio identical drug known to man that causes unnatural bio identical side effects. Woman on birth control are at greater risk or at best the same risk level for blood clots, as men who are on TRT.

JM was on low dose testosterone, but the elephant in the room seems to be getting over looked. JM had a near fatal heart attack last year that severely damaged his heart, so much so that ever since JM had his heart attack, he was going against the medical community consensus regarding EF levels. "The effectiveness of implantable cardioverter-defibrillators (ICDs) for primary prevention of sudden death in patients with an ejection fraction (EF) ≤35% and clinical heart failure is well established." JM admits openly that his EF was below the 35% threshold and he was scared to get an ICD Implanted. (Not blaming the guy, that has to be an insanely scary decision to make). My point is, JM didn't die suddenly because his test levels were between 800-1000 nanograms per deciliter, it's because JM had a heart that could give out at any moment, due to the massive damage he took from last year's heart attack. Not to mention the fact that JM had for absolute certain, a blood clotting disorder.

There is a list of risk factors for blood clots from the Mayo Clinic.

  1. Being overweight or obese. Being overweight increases the pressure in the veins in your pelvis and legs. JM was considered obese, as is everyone in this forum.
  2. Heart failure. This increases your risk of DVT and pulmonary embolism. Because people with heart failure have limited heart and lung function, the symptoms caused by even a small pulmonary embolism are more noticeable. (JM had an EF less than 35%, and his left ventricle was mainly dead. His words, not mine)
  3. Bowel diseases, such as Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis, increase the risk of DVT. (JM had a more rare, more dangerous bowel disease than the ones listed.)
  4. Birth control pills (oral contraceptives) or hormone replacement therapy. Both can increase your blood's ability to clot. (Again, the risk for hormones is only noted because TRT and BC are not standard issue, people get over dosed prescriptions, or their bodies have over reactions to hormone replacement. If hormones are regulated to a natural level, these issues are not present.)
  5. A personal or family history of DVT or PE. If you or someone in your family has had one or both of these, you might be at greater risk of developing DVT. "Have a history of clots? You’re likely to get them again. One-third of people who get a DVT/PE will have another one within 10 years. Often, says Burgwinkle, this is because the blood clots form around the valves of a vein, which can damage it. In some cases, this can lead to multiple clots over time. More and more we're seeing that this can be more of a chronic disease, rather than an acute episode.”
  6. And the last one which we are speculating is Genetics. Some people inherit genetic risk factors or disorders, such as factor V Leiden, that make their blood clot more easily. An inherited disorder on its own might not cause blood clots unless combined with one or more other risk factors.

So if we set aside Genetics, JM still had 5 out of the 13 known causes of blood clots. If he did in fact have a genetic disorder, than he would have had half of the known risk factors associated with blood clots, that's alot of risk. To say that an other wise perfectly healthy human with no risk factors is rolling the dice from taking TRT, is going up up and away overboard.

On the other hand of this discussion, I get what some are worried about, trust me so am I. But the sad truth is, I know more people that die from diseases that they never should have had, lung cancer and never smoking, heart attacks with no drug use or other known risk factors, blood cancer, breast cancer, etc etc. Education and mitigation are essential to live a long life, and some how at the same time they are absolutely worthless. My advice for peace of mind would be to get genetic testing, know your family history, and do annual blood work. This goes for people on and off gear. Again I know far more people (not on gear) who have died preventable deaths because they never go to the doctor, than I do gym rats that get bloods done and see the doctor regularly.

We're all heart broken, JM was such a good guy that we all are reflecting on our own lives. I've done some amazing shit in my life, but I can promise you if I died tomorrow, no one here on this board would ever know. JM is and will forever be a legend. He transcended his influence and knowledge to people from all walks of Life. Unfortunately, life isn't fair, and if it was, JM would have lived forever.
I wasn't aware his ef was below 35%. If it was, his doctors probably recommended an ICD. I would have died around Christmas of 08 if I didn't have mine.

Prior to that I was squatting about 2 months after my heart attack and went into v tach. Called 911 and the squad had to defibrillate me when I passed out and went into v fib. My heart might have stopped then.

Getting an ICD is essential for anyone in heart failure.
 

rAJJIN

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This is a thread dedicated to JM.
Maybe start another thread for receiving or giving medical advice.
None of us are promised tomorrow and I do not care what device or medicine you have.
 

DOGGCRAPP

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Xpoc I am going to give you some reading to look thru (and you can make up your own conclusions)







https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3824146/ <---why cardio is important to keep H and H down

 

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