DHEA/7-Keto DHEA/HRT - all three?

[finny]

It appears that there are a lot of benefits to supplementing with DHEA and 7-keto.

I think I remember Emeric saying that one should not take DHEA while cycling or on HRT. Why is that? From my readings it does not look like DHEA will raise test levels in men, just women - is there another reason other than test production?

My question: can you do all three at the same time? I went through Dr. Kessler presentation on DHEA/7-Keto and the benefits become evident to both men and women.

My DHEA Sulphate levels were 51 PMOL/L back in Feb and the adult range is 0-161.

I started taking both, but would like to know that it is still beneficial and I'm not throwing my money away.

Thanks.

 

[emeric delczeg]

It appears that there are a lot of benefits to supplementing with DHEA and 7-keto.

I think I remember Emeric saying that one should not take DHEA while cycling or on HRT. Why is that? From my readings it does not look like DHEA will raise test levels in men, just women - is there another reason other than test production?

My question: can you do all three at the same time? I went through Dr. Kessler presentation on DHEA/7-Keto and the benefits become evident to both men and women.

My DHEA Sulphate levels were 51 PMOL/L back in Feb and the adult range is 0-161.

I started taking both, but would like to know that it is still beneficial and I'm not throwing my money away.

Thanks.

Exactly it doesn`t raise test levels when you are on AAS, if the women would take AAS than her test would not be effected, but her estrogen would , and your estrogen would go up to.

 

[finny]

Emeric, from what I've read, even if one is not on AAS your test levels won't go up after taking DHEA. But for women they will. Same is supposed to apply for estradol.

Now, do you think it is a good idea to still take a combination of DHEA 50mg and 7-Keto 100mg even when one is on HRT?

Thanks.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Emeric, from what I've read, even if one is not on AAS your test levels won't go up after taking DHEA. But for women they will. Same is supposed to apply for estradol.

Now, do you think it is a good idea to still take a combination of DHEA 50mg and 7-Keto 100mg even when one is on HRT?

Thanks.

Not in combination, you may take 7-keto with out the DHEA , 7-keto don`t converd to estrogen.
7-keto is good for fat loss, 7-keto produces fat loss throgh of process of thermogenesis, it enhances the activity of 3 thermogenic enzymes that stimulate fatty acid oxidation.

Yes you may take 7-keto with AAS, and I would not take DHEA with AAS.

 

[mung]

I will add, after reading Emerics posts, that I droppped the DHEA while on 200mg/week and I was noticeably harder. Not sure if that is estrogen related, but I had obviously dropped a little water after ceasing the DHEA.

 

[Fa Seeshus]

normal dhea def makes you hold some water. i am on the cream now.

the keto dhea makes me harder

 

[finny]

Yes you may take 7-keto with AAS, and I would not take DHEA with AAS.

Is this due to possibility of DHEA converting to estrogen as other posters have mentioned? Or is it more 'what is the point' when someone is supplementing test?

Thanks.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Is this due to possibility of DHEA converting to estrogen as other posters have mentioned? Or is it more 'what is the point' when someone is supplementing test?

Thanks.

Yes it will convert to estrogen.

 

[finny]

Thanks Emeric, you have been a great help.

So, would you say that DHEA would be ideal for PCT? I've read that it helps fight cortisol as well. What about if one would run Humanafort during PCT - would you run both? If one, which one would you choose - I think I know the answer to this one.

Thanks again.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Thanks Emeric, you have been a great help.

So, would you say that DHEA would be ideal for PCT? I've read that it helps fight cortisol as well. What about if one would run Humanafort during PCT - would you run both? If one, which one would you choose - I think I know the answer to this one.

Thanks again.

You can take Humanofort when you on AAS or off, Humanofort is the only natural product in the world that contains multi natural growth factors, which are vital for humans and animals for a normal organs function.

 

[KillerStack]

If I were on HRT I would go with SWALE's recommendation to use DHEA. I doubt estrogen conversion is a concern with the dosages he recommends.

 

[GoneForever]

If I were on HRT I would go with SWALE's recommendation to use DHEA. I doubt estrogen conversion is a concern with the dosages he recommends.

Isnt estrogen very minimally raised with dhea? I mean 50mg per dhea, how much could that raise estro? I dont see how it could even be noticeable.

 

[vanya]

hey phil

Phil, would chime in with your opinion being as how you told me dhea is important while on?

 

[Thebigone]

I forgot all about 7keto dhea. I heard this should be taken daily and never go off.

 

[EDED]

its like taking down stream effect of GH such as mgf/ igf (not the ones we are shotting, im talking in the body)

DHEA has many metabolites with functions, i would take lower dose DHEA if it gives you a problem and if 7-keto dhea is used, only at night and only if you are certain that you have high cortisol

not sure if its good to take 7 keto everyday,,,at least for nattys

 

[brutale]

depends on individual

From what I've seen, studies show that dhea, in men not on exogenous androgens, does not raise test but does raise estrogen levels a bit. Which is not necessarily bad.

Dhea + aromatase inhibition can raise test. I think a patent was issued for this concept / "invention", but I don't see the point really.

I'm not sure that any research has been done on men on HRT or AAS. But some docs have clinical/anecdotal experience. I get the impression that dhea has the following effects:
- sometimes improves libido and mood for people on AAS, HRT
- sometimes causes a bump up in estro and water

Personally, I get both effects at 50-75mg/day. So, I don't bother. No experience with 7-keto. Said to be thermogenic.

I'd say, just try it and see how you feel.

 

[Pumped1]

phil can you elaborate ?


I have been working with him and his thoughts are a little different

 

[vanya]

Bump what are some other opinions on dhea while on?

 

[myosin]

Well, both are basically "right"....

I like following swale's stuff, here is a good link explaining a lot...

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/professional-muscle-forum/33093-dhea-wow.html

This a very simplified and paraphrased explanation...

Swale- taking HRT can lessen/shut down some of the pre-cursor hormones to testosterone and these hormones in themselves have specific functions in the body. So, the "basic suggestion" is DHEA, 25mg, AM and PM... maintains stable blood levels. SOMETIMES he even suggests pregnenolone as well (a precursor to DHEA) but I do not know the protocol as to when/why he does.

Emeric- Humanofort ESSENTIALLY does the same thing, but his experience is that DHEA can "off-shoot" some hormones too much where-as humanofort will "balance/regulate" any hormones that are "off".

DHEA- it seems that it is quite variable with people and the affect it has on them. If you wanted to be exact, one should get blood levels to see where exactly they are, supplement, re-test, and so on.

It does SEEM that most people do fine at 25mg, AM and PM... I believe people who having estrogenic problems were either taking too much (some at 100mg/day) and/or not taking an AI.

"At the end of the day" I suppose it is really just a matter of personal preference, experience, comfort, etc....

Emeric- you can blast me if I mis-spoke at all

Edit- oh, as far as EDED's comment about keto-7 not being too good for natty's... he is probably referring to keto-7's cortisol lowering abilities, not it's thermogenic abilities... yes, cortisol CAN BE "bad" but it still does have healthy functions in the body, some people can get really carried away trying to shut it down and actually be doing more harm than good