Do you ever ONLY do flat bench and ditch incline for awhile?

abolish the weak · Nov 10, 2008

I was reading an old post the other night, Phil Hernon was saying he didnt do incline because it was geared more towards delts. I wonder how true this is, I'm starting to think it may have some validity to it. Especially for me, I'm a genetic shoulder freak, I could ditch training delts altogether and they'd still look big. So I guess I'm thinking that incline bench may actually be overtraining my delts when I could be saving them for flat bench and go heavier since better rest/recovery etc. Anybody input here>?

jm425 · Nov 10, 2008

I think that anything over 30 degrees is going to hit your delts more than your chest. Flat bench is great for the middle of the chest but IMO, inclines should be included from my personal experience. While I'm not a pro like Phil is, and I respect his opinions and views, I think that most people do need to do at least some incline work to see overall improvement in for their upper pecs.

VanR__ · Nov 10, 2008

I am a delt presser even on flat bench, so I took inclines out a long time ago.

perseverance · Nov 10, 2008

I think it depends. If you tend to activate more delts when doing incline presses then leave them out. I, on the other hand, have always had a large chest and can feel it working when doing incline. So i do both flat and incline at about the same amount. Just depends on the person.

samiam · Nov 10, 2008

i also have strong delts.
At Phil's suggestions I stopped doing incline and do just decline.

I don't understand it but after about a month the gym owner commented that my upper chest looked fuller and asked what I had been doing differently...

stavios · Nov 10, 2008

if you pull you shoulders back while you are pressing the weight, it shouldn't put the delts too much into play and that way you can focus on hitting mostly the chest.

incline presses are great IMO

bloodshed · Nov 11, 2008

i do incline dumbell press, but i also read phils post and i noticed that i do have the arch which makes it almost a flat press. it has been working for me, much better than flat press IMO, so im going to stick to it for the time being.

TJB · Nov 11, 2008

I havn't done them in about 2 months and my chest is improving.....

hellraiser27 · Nov 11, 2008

So what if it works your delts. Are your delts already big enough.

A proper incline should only be 30 degrees. Incline bench is a fundamental bodybuilding movement. They have always been done and are still done by the big guys. Colman, Dorian, and Cutler all do inclines.
Why is it suddenly not a good chest exercise?
Maybe some people don't need it but I don't know why. The chest is seperated in to two parts. I think this is common knowledge.

I'm sure Phil has his own reasoning in the matter, but in the big scheme of things, the average BB should include incline.

kaoz · Nov 11, 2008

I ALWAYS HIT INCLINE BUT NOT ALWAYS DECLINE ILL DO DIPS INSTEAD.

PHIL HERNON · Nov 13, 2008

Ok then

hellraiser27 said:
So what if it works your delts. Are your delts already big enough.

A proper incline should only be 30 degrees. Incline bench is a fundamental bodybuilding movement. They have always been done and are still done by the big guys. Colman, Dorian, and Cutler all do inclines.
Why is it suddenly not a good chest exercise?
Maybe some people don't need it but I don't know why. The chest is seperated in to two parts. I think this is common knowledge.

I'm sure Phil has his own reasoning in the matter, but in the big scheme of things, the average BB should include incline.

Explain 2 parts to the chest and what hits each part.......then we will go from there.

gordo14 · Nov 13, 2008

PHIL HERNON said:
Explain 2 parts to the chest and what hits each part.......then we will go from there.

Well lots of people believe in the whole Pec minor, and major. And there are ways to isolate, or engage each one more than the other. I beleive that the whole pec muscle has to be engaged in a chest pressing movement.

COASTAL · Nov 13, 2008

I can tell you that my chest development has sky-rocketed (as well a as poundages) since primarily doing declines for chest. I have done inclines on a 30 deg incline (DB and barbell) for the last 5 years, and switched to these about 8 weeks ago.

PHIL HERNON · Nov 14, 2008

Yes

gordo14 said:
Well lots of people believe in the whole Pec minor, and major. And there are ways to isolate, or engage each one more than the other. I beleive that the whole pec muscle has to be engaged in a chest pressing movement.

Now
1. How do you engage the pec minor?
2. Where does the pec minor insert and attach.

saudades · Nov 14, 2008

Here are images of each the pectoral major and pectoral minor. Looks to me like one trains the pectoral major in any case.

SlickrockLS · Nov 14, 2008

Thank you Phil....listened and applied all tips you have given. Training non stop 3+ years now. Tips you have given regarding chest have turned my chest workouts upside down. I am back too doing flat bench as my main movement as well as the amount of sets you suggested. Feels like my chest is growing again like it was the first 3 months that i started lifting...Benched 410 for a single, 320 for 8 and 230 for 24 on monday night...thank you for all the advice and any that continues to come!

PHIL HERNON · Nov 14, 2008

Good point

Saudades said:
Here are images of each the pectoral major and pectoral minor. Looks to me like one trains the pectoral major in any case.

Inclines do not hit the pec minor.........they are a bad shoulder exercise and a bad pec major exercise. To think that you need to incorporate these into your routine.........well, I wont say anything else. There is a great pec minor exercise I use once a week or so.

hellraiser27 · Nov 14, 2008

PHIL HERNON said:
Explain 2 parts to the chest and what hits each part.......then we will go from there.

First let me say that I don't think I even know nearly as much as you do about BB. And any disagreement I have is based on my own experience and what I have seen in BB videos.

My understanding of the chest is that there is an upper and a lower, minor and major respectively. Major is worked by flat bench and minor is worked by incline. 30 degrees max! I have seen videos of all the big guys doing flats and inclines. I myself love dumbbell inclines. I get a really good pump from them.
I don't believe that it is realistic for the average guy to see this post and cut inclines out of his/her routine and think their chest will start getting bigger because they remove an exercise from their routine.
Inclines by themselves should not hinder muscle growth. And if you work a little delts in the process so what?

Having said all that, I truely believe you have a method for training chest better than anything I know.
You are the pro, I am the amature.

wannagofast · Nov 14, 2008

hellraiser27 said:
First let me say that I don't think I even know nearly as much as you do about BB. And any disagreement I have is based on my own experience and what I have seen in BB videos.

My understanding of the chest is that there is an upper and a lower, minor and major respectively. Major is worked by flat bench and minor is worked by incline. 30 degrees max! I have seen videos of all the big guys doing flats and inclines. I myself love dumbbell inclines. I get a really good pump from them.
I don't believe that it is realistic for the average guy to see this post and cut inclines out of his/her routine and think their chest will start getting bigger because they remove an exercise from their routine.
Inclines by themselves should not hinder muscle growth. And if you work a little delts in the process so what?

Having said all that, I truely believe you have a method for training chest better than anything I know.
You are the pro, I am the amature.

I thought the Pec Minor was behind(posterior to) the Pec Major..I could be wrong though