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Does metformin lose its effectiveness over time if used ED?

.... it has similiar benefits to DNP, as I said in all of my readings I cant find a single reason to use it long term



My words were a little too strong, crushed may be a poor choice, but yeah, ill be glad too after work.

You are literally the only person I’ve EVER heard in my life say this... Lmao

I don’t even............

*Gas chamber* :banghead:


** What in the actual fuck is going on lately? Is there some shit contaminating the water or something? I can’t even think straight after reading that... I need to go read some other shit and exercise my brain because reading this guy’s shit has just made me....... Fuck it, can’t even think of the rest...
 
You are literally the only person I’ve EVER heard in my life say this... Lmao

I don’t even............

*Gas chamber* :banghead:


** What in the actual fuck is going on lately? Is there some shit contaminating the water or something? I can’t even think straight after reading that... I need to go read some other shit and exercise my brain because reading this guy’s shit has just made me....... Fuck it, can’t even think of the rest...

I presume his referencing are actions on mitochondrial.
 
You are literally the only person I’ve EVER heard in my life say this... Lmao

I don’t even............

*Gas chamber* :banghead:


** What in the actual fuck is going on lately? Is there some shit contaminating the water or something? I can’t even think straight after reading that... I need to go read some other shit and exercise my brain because reading this guy’s shit has just made me....... Fuck it, can’t even think of the rest...

No need to get uptight, get some air, sounds like you dont get out very much :D

You're telling me you use DNP for any other reason than rapid re-sensitization to your response from glucose? Sounds alot like metformin, doesnt it?

I presume his referencing are actions on mitochondrial.

First of all, the idea 'met for body composition' is hard for me to believe in the first place. If youre not using it to counteract pre-diabetic symptoms wtf are you using it for? I see the need for that with gh/slin in high doses to either come off or to sustain use. But people are just using it to use it ? No one has said anything about it other than pumps, which is a good thing but not absolutely. I read that thread, bye no means am I telling anyone their right or wrong, im just asking wtf people use it for in BB other than pre-diabetic symptoms.

Most studies on Met come from diabetics, rats, or cancer cells. So i'll admit loose causality from the start. But we clearly can find a pathway in which metmorfin downreglates mTOR which defacto means less IGF, now like DNP this can be used for rapid weight gain as the receptor is re-sensitizing, but if people use it all year???

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/e6ee/6f89f1a22b34b9e48c8e8cb44cddf526348d.pdf

"Metformin is a widely prescribed antidiabetic drug associated with a reduced risk of cancer. Many studies show that metformin inhibits cancer cell viability through the inhibition of mTOR. We recently showed that antiproliferative action of metformin in prostate cancer cell lines is not mediated by AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK). We identified REDD1 (also known as DDIT4 and RTP801), a negative regulator of mTOR, as a new molecular target of metformin. We show that metformin increases REDD1 expression in a p53-
dependent manner.
REDD1 invalidation, using siRNA or REDD1/ cells, abrogates metformin inhibition of mTOR. Importantly, inhibition of REDD1 reverses metformin-induced cell-cycle arrest and significantly
protects from the deleterious effects of metformin on cell transformation. Finally, we show the contribution of p53 in mediating metformin action in prostate cancer cells. These results highlight the p53/REDD1 axis
as a new molecular target in anticancer therapy in response to metformin treatment."

On mTOR and IGF in protein synthesis

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16990457

"Signaling through mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR) is activated by amino acids, insulin, and growth factors, and impaired by nutrient or energy deficiency. mTOR plays key roles in cell physiology. mTOR regulates numerous components involved in protein synthesis, including initiation and elongation factors, and the biogenesis of ribosomes themselves."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20163929 (this one isnt on people, but trust me, it does the same to them)

" the effects of insulin-like growth factor (IGF)-1 on the regulation of protein synthesis through the mammalian target of rapamycin complex 1 (mTORC1) signaling in bovine mammary epithelial cells were evaluated. Global rates of protein synthesis increased by 47% within 30 min of IGF-1 treatment."
 
No need to get uptight, get some air, sounds like you dont get out very much :D

You're telling me you use DNP for any other reason than rapid re-sensitization to your response from glucose? Sounds alot like metformin, doesnt it?

Actually I’ve been out and about and traveled more than the average person and it’s the ignorance and stupidity I’ve witnessed that have dwindled my patience for it to ZERO and I call it out when I see it..

And no, I DO NOT use DNP for that... Yes, it helps with that but not my go to...

Read more than just the first 2 things you find on either topics.

You sound like a fool, even more so making assumptions...

How old are you? My guess is 20...
 
Actually I’ve been out and about and traveled more than the average person and it’s the ignorance and stupidity I’ve witnessed that have dwindled my patience for it to ZERO and I call it out when I see it..

And no, I DO NOT use DNP for that... Yes, it helps with that but not my go to...

Read more than just the first 2 things you find on either topics.

You sound like a fool, even more so making assumptions...

How old are you? My guess is 20...

You're making assumption about my background knowledge and age, yet im being presumptuous??? Do you not like 20 y/o's, because we can bring in Dave Palumbo to age the place up a bit.

I just re-read all 7 pages, just to make sure I wasnt missing anything??? JM dropped by likely on all the gh/slin in the world and people were convinced. I like JM, he gave me a compliment a while back, but im not JM and I dont do what JM does....

I still havent heard a single reason to use this year round for BB (without gh,) some mentioned longevity (which usually comes from lower igf) but thats it. Even the reason they 'debunked' met being a poor choice, via lowering IGF through APK is slightly off, the study I posted took a stab at that.
 
You're making assumption about my background knowledge and age, yet im being presumptuous??? Do you not like 20 y/o's, because we can bring in Dave Palumbo to age the place up a bit.

I just re-read all 7 pages, just to make sure I wasnt missing anything??? JM dropped by likely on all the gh/slin in the world and people were convinced. I like JM, he gave me a compliment a while back, but im not JM and I dont do what JM does....

I still havent heard a single reason to use this year round for BB (without gh,) some mentioned longevity (which usually comes from lower igf) but thats it. Even the reason they 'debunked' met being a poor choice, via lowering IGF through APK is slightly off, the study I posted took a stab at that.

One thing I’ve learned; can’t argue with ignorance...

I don’t care...
 
One thing I’ve learned; can’t argue with ignorance...

I don’t care...

This was hardly an argument, you literally havent addressed my questions, I asked for clarification and was met with attitude and hostility :confused:
 
DNP? no reason to use it long term? stop digging yourself into a hole. we're trying to help.

just a few:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28258677

Metformin Wins FDA Approval | Life Extension

Metformin Makes Headline News - page 1 | Life Extension

No need to put words in my mouth, didnt say long term dnp use just like I said no long term met use....

Those articles boast anti-agging yet the other threads suggest this as a bodybuilding compound... That was my question...

No ones addressed the issue of stomach distress and muscle weakness, but whatever, not like anyone wants to actually discuss this.
 
Last edited:
so anytime a newby comes in and pukes this we have to go thought and re write 10,000 posts? No thanks, you think metformin will affect your IGF and lower test and whatever else Great don't take it.

Stomach distress yes its real, most get over it when gut biome changes as it does for the better.

The rest has been hashed out 100 times on this board.
 
so anytime a newby comes in and pukes this we have to go thought and re write 10,000 posts? No thanks, you think metformin will affect your IGF and lower test and whatever else Great don't take it.

Stomach distress yes its real, most get over it when gut biome changes as it does for the better.

The rest has been hashed out 100 times on this board.

whats the fascination with putting words in my mouth here? Never once did I say met lowers test....

This forum is very old, sometimes searches go back for a hundred pages. You can assume i'm a newbie all you want, i've seen met used but never how you guys are using it, I asked for a write up or a citation, fuck even just a link would have been nice, the one provided was a circle jerk.
 
so anytime a newby comes in and pukes this we have to go thought and re write 10,000 posts? No thanks, you think metformin will affect your IGF and lower test and whatever else Great don't take it.



Stomach distress yes its real, most get over it when gut biome changes as it does for the better.



The rest has been hashed out 100 times on this board.



Thanks you !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
so anytime a newby comes in and pukes this we have to go thought and re write 10,000 posts? No thanks, you think metformin will affect your IGF and lower test and whatever else Great don't take it.

Stomach distress yes its real, most get over it when gut biome changes as it does for the better.

The rest has been hashed out 100 times on this board.

This is why I stopped responding. Same old arguments in every metformin thread and the person arguing against metformin is clearly set with his views so nobody is going to change anyone's minds here.

Next thread...
 
This is why I stopped responding. Same old arguments in every metformin thread and the person arguing against metformin is clearly set with his views so nobody is going to change anyone's minds here.

Next thread...

... thats not true or I wouldnt be asking....
 
To answer the OP's original question. To the best of my knowledge, I've yet to see any literature indicating tachyphylaxis of metformin. To the lay-reader, tachyphylaxis is considered a diminishing response from a drug. Diet modifications are generally the cause and effect for lack-of efficacy with metformin. Not the drug itself.


Sure, in isolation metformin acts independently, antagonisticlly on mTOR, several citations have undeviatingly confirmed this. Conflicting as it may seem, this doesn't appear to be of concerns if an individual is loaded up on anabolics, GH, high protein intake, consumption of EAA's or the likes.


In contrast, unbeknownst too some, AMPK activation itself will increase glucose uptake and muscle protein synthesis as demonstrated by Douglas R. Bolster, et al, Published, JBC Papers in Press, May 7, 2002, DOI 10.1074/jbc.C200171200


"The results also further establish AMPK as a unique energy sensor that not only modulates glucose and fatty acid metabolism but also appears to regulate, in part, the anabolic functions of mRNA translation and mixed muscle protein synthesis"

To conclude:

"In conclusion, this research identifies a new cellular function for AMPK by its ability to modulate skeletal muscle protein synthesis and the phosphorylation state of translation initiation factors upon activation".

Also consider the following:

Unlike the former citation demonstrated on animal models. The following was observed in humans by Dennis C. Gore, MD, et al; Ann Surg. 2005 Feb; 241(2): 334–342.



"Metformin had a demonstrable anabolic effect on muscle protein metabolism. For example, patients treated with metformin had a significantly less negative net balance of alanine and phenylalanine across the leg (Table 6). Measurements of muscle protein kinetics using 3-compartment modeling demonstrated a trend toward increases in muscle protein synthesis (Fom; P = 0.074) for patients given metformin. Placebo- and metformin-treated patients were similar in Fmo (as an index of muscle protein breakdown), as were values of phenylalanine transport. Most notably, there was a significant increase in the fractional synthetic rate of muscle protein in those patients receiving metformin"



Conclusive enough. Eva C. Diaz, et al, also demonstrated the same end points.

Effects of Pharmacological Interventions on Muscle Protein Synthesis and Breakdown in Recovery from Burns


"Interestingly, despite decreased endogenous glucose production and increased glucose clearance and oxidation, metformin treatment did not decrease the rate of muscle protein breakdown. Certainly, it would be expected that a reduction in gluconeogenesis would lead to a decreased demand of substrate (amino acids) from skeletal muscle, and thus reduced protein breakdown rates. Similarly, a shift in the utilization of amino acids as fuel toward a greater oxidation of glucose should primarily decrease muscle protein breakdown. However, the improvement in net balance reported in the intervention group was mainly due to an elevation in the rate of protein synthesis and not to changes in protein breakdown. This suggests that the anabolic effect of metformin in burn patients is mediated by improving the state of insulin resistance associated with the stress response to burn injury. Indeed, the infusion of insulin after seven days of metformin treatment further increased the rate of muscle protein synthesis"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can comprehend yours (and other's) tunnel-sighted diversion upon the face-value on some spoken literature that may show consequent of hindering muscle growth on its own. Subsequently, many individuals that adjuvantlly use metformin alongside their AAS concoctions to achieve their maximal growth potential have yet to expres stunted growth, including myself.

What most on boards like here and alike lack to consider. One has to take into account the barrage of many other mTOR/TORC1 (supplements and lifestyle [epigenetic responses]) activators and inhibitors that interplay, thus potentially canceling or enhancing growth promoting pathways. Exercise in itself would more than likely create negligible responses on mTOR from the adjuvant use of metformin.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your question of why would one take metformin.

Well, supraphyiological doses of anabolics have been shown to set the stage for endothelial dysfunction and neurodegenerative diseases to name a few known morbidities. Metformin has been shown to improve endothelial function as well through AMPK expression have "neuroprotective affects from increased formation of advanced glycosylation end products (AGEs)". Chung MM, et al. Biochim Biophys Acta. 2015 May;1852(5):720-31. doi: 10.1016/j.bbadis.2015.01.006. Epub 2015 Jan 13.

Vitale C, et al. J Intern Med. 2005.

Why not potentially mitigate would be my question.

If your concerns are the focal point of inhibition on IGF-1, you may want to rethink using/consuming the following, as these have been shown to cause disruptive effects on IGF-1--- signaling pathways.

caffeine

alcohol consumption

Curcumin

Grapes, nuts, tomatoes, guava, watermelon, papaya, apricot, pink grapefruit, green tea, raisins, prunes and legumes.

high carb intake

If one has undiagnosed or uncontrolled sleep apnea. There's a strong correlation of impaired pulsitile actions of GH, decreased IGF-1 levels. This goes without mentioning there's robust hypothesis's and animal models indicating inactivation/impared AMPK expression is correlated with systematic inflammation. I'm sure we can agree that the incorporated use of AAS can exasperate the presence of OSA. Uncontrolled sleep apnea in-of itself is a known biomarker for signalling inflammatory responses.

Coincidently, A. Mark Evens, et al; reported their findings as such: Biochem J. 2016 Sep 1; 473(17): 2561–2572.
Published online 2016 Aug 30. doi: 10.1042/BCJ20160002

"Our findings identify exciting new avenues for the treatment of sleep disordered breathing, because drugs that mimic AMPK activation could restore normal breathing patterns in people suffering from this disease"

It appears AMPK expression may play a pivotal role in lessening AHI's associated with OAS. If my OSA wasn't controlled, I'd definitely be reaching for metformin. As well, a CPAP. :)

I'm not here to sway your opinion one-way or the other. Yet, if your concerns are of that soley of IGF-1 and or MPS. I truly believe you're missing the boat.

Have a goodnight. I'm exhausted talking about metformin.
 
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I would like to thank Stewie for his response and contributions to this thread...now only if I could understand half of it. :headbang:

Does anyone else see their metformin pill in their bowel movements when they pass stools? There are days where i see the pill completely (and apparently) undigested. I am curious if this is normal
 
I would like to thank Stewie for his response and contributions to this thread...now only if I could understand half of it. :headbang:

Does anyone else see their metformin pill in their bowel movements when they pass stools? There are days where i see the pill completely (and apparently) undigested. I am curious if this is normal

I'm guessing you're taking the ER (extended release) tablets?

It's somewhat common.

https://medlibrary.org/lib/rx/meds/metformin-hydrochloride-24/
System Components and Performance - Metformin hydrochloride extended-release tablets USP comprise a dual hydrophilic polymer matrix system. Metformin hydrochloride is combined with a drug release controlling polymer to form an “inner” phase, which is then incorporated as discrete particles into an “external” phase of a second polymer. After administration, fluid from the gastrointestinal (GI) tract enters the tablet, causing the polymers to hydrate and swell. Drug is released slowly from the dosage form by a process of diffusion through the gel matrix that is essentially independent of pH. The hydrated polymer system is not rigid and is expected to be broken up by normal peristalsis in the GI tract. The biologically inert components of the tablet may occasionally remain intact during GI transit and will be eliminated in the feces as a soft, hydrated mass.
 
I'm guessing you're taking the ER (extended release) tablets?

It's somewhat common.

https://medlibrary.org/lib/rx/meds/metformin-hydrochloride-24/
System Components and Performance - Metformin hydrochloride extended-release tablets USP comprise a dual hydrophilic polymer matrix system. Metformin hydrochloride is combined with a drug release controlling polymer to form an “inner” phase, which is then incorporated as discrete particles into an “external” phase of a second polymer. After administration, fluid from the gastrointestinal (GI) tract enters the tablet, causing the polymers to hydrate and swell. Drug is released slowly from the dosage form by a process of diffusion through the gel matrix that is essentially independent of pH. The hydrated polymer system is not rigid and is expected to be broken up by normal peristalsis in the GI tract. The biologically inert components of the tablet may occasionally remain intact during GI transit and will be eliminated in the feces as a soft, hydrated mass.


Wow, that was an awesome direct answer to his question! :headbang: Complete with a medical citation.
 
Thank you Stewie for taking the time to help with that...

I wonder what hole OP stuck himself in?

Or maybe he’s a troll? 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
Thank you Stewie for taking the time to help with that...

I wonder what hole OP stuck himself in?

Or maybe he’s a troll? 🤷🏻‍♂️

Who are you referring to? Thanks Stewie again for the information. IF someone has some time can they explain in my laymans terms what MTOR is and what AMPK is and how metformin benefits these? Imagine you were explaining this drug to your grandparents
 

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