Don't worry about high hematocrit/RBC/Hemoglobin?

[Sunny]

Such a wealth of information in one post. Thanks man

I'm glad you understood. I didn't. I need to go med school or something, lol

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

I'm glad you understood. I didn't. I need to go med school or something, lol

Not everything, no. The parts that are unclear I research myself until I understand. With the internet (and some access to research libraries), you basically have all the information in the world at your fingertips. If you know the keywords to search, you will find. On any topic you can find both entry level texts and the latest studies, so you can delve as deep as you like.

 

[G.I.Bro]

From what I understood from this video and reading an article he wrote is that if the ONLY thing that is elevated is RBC/HCT then it's not caue for concern as long as your platelet count is kosher. Something in those lines at least. But an increase in all 3 means that your blood is in fact getting thicker, which (according to him) shouldn't happen as a result of using TRT.

He's also EXTREMELY anti-AI. He thinks that one should seek to optimize test/E2 ratio as opposed to seeking a certain E2 number. He thinks AIs are poison.

Now I honestly am not informed enough to claim whether he's a smart guy or a lunatic, but I personally truly feel best when my E2 is a bit higher.

I think AIs can be bad and are overused. Many people think Nolva is not enough for TRT.

So how can we "optimize our ratio of test to estrogen" easily without modulating down our estrogen levels with an AI though. On anything over TRT dose, your ratio will not be balanced.

I mean, from a real world practical standpoint, what are we supposed to do. What is he having his TRT patients do?

 

[rmtt]

I think AIs can be bad and are overused. Many people think Nolva is not enough for TRT.

So how can we "optimize our ratio of test to estrogen" easily without modulating down our estrogen levels with an AI though. On anything over TRT dose, your ratio will not be balanced.

I mean, from a real world practical standpoint, what are we supposed to do. What is he having his TRT patients do?

That's why I opted to go for a lower TRT dose than deal with an AI.

I've tested both higher and lower amounts of TRT 100-150mg.....and I can live with slightly lower total and free test numbers if it means I don't have to "dial" in an AI.

In my opinion find a sweet spot that keeps everything in range even when your bodyfat is at different levels as I've found that can impact it to a small degree as well.

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk

 

[Knight9]

That's why I opted to go for a lower TRT dose than deal with an AI.

I've tested both higher and lower amounts of TRT 100-150mg.....and I can live with slightly lower total and free test numbers if it means I don't have to "dial" in an AI.

In my opinion find a sweet spot that keeps everything in range even when your bodyfat is at different levels as I've found that can impact it to a small degree as well.

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk

What I am interested to know is the following. Imagine you are doing 200-300mg test weekly and have free test at x....let's say 60. Will you feel the same if you halve the dose to 100-150mg and can somehow boost your free test (through boron, nettle root, proviron...whatever) to the same 60? Thus, giving you a great chance to avoid ai if not overly sensitive or perhaps mediate it through zinc and DIM etc. I really want to know if the SAME free test values give you the same performance while mitigating/controlling estrogen and blood viscosity?

 

[musclemd]

Ya my main concern is blood clots when those numbers get too high you become more suseptable to clots which can lead to a stroke.
I feel better and my BP goes down a bit after a double red cell donation.
As far as AI's go I prefer Novaldex I have tried then all and it seems most effective.with less sides, Arimidex makes my joints hurt.
I can look at a vial of test and get gyno I'm very sensitive to it.
This is all Broscience on my part but I go with what feels right I think most of us do that have been in this game for any length of time.

I give blood and use arimidex just enough to control Estrogen spikes.

 

[maldorf]

This thread turned out pretty good! Good info here. What other bodybuilding boards out there have knowledge like this!? Thanks Stewie for laying it out so well.

 

[j2048b]

Hematological response to higher elevations doesn't necessarily mean there's adaptation, moreso, without consequent.

There's plenty of literature that thee good ole Dr. Neil Rouzier fails to communicate with the general audience. He uses the analogy of comparison of those living in higher elevation to those with secondary polycthemia.

Apparently the smooth talking Dr. must of missed the bus on treating either acute or chronic mountain sickness. Not in all cases, although phlebotomy is often performed.



As I mentioned in my first post:

Acute or chronic mountain sickness!!??? Do tell please

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[Thebigone]

What I am interested to know is the following. Imagine you are doing 200-300mg test weekly and have free test at x....let's say 60. Will you feel the same if you halve the dose to 100-150mg and can somehow boost your free test (through boron, nettle root, proviron...whatever) to the same 60? Thus, giving you a great chance to avoid ai if not overly sensitive or perhaps mediate it through zinc and DIM etc. I really want to know if the SAME free test values give you the same performance while mitigating/controlling estrogen and blood viscosity?

Free test will boost from ED shallow IM shots. I was on 300mg/wk(100mg3x/wk) for years and now at 25mg ED shallow IM free test is in the high 200’s/low 300’s. On 300mg I think it was like 400free test do not a huge diff. Plus AI in the past was always .5mg Adex 2-3x/wk but now after numerous blood tests including ultrasensitive Estradiol I can use only .1mg Adex 3x per week(only .3mg total vs 1-1.5mg) so huge diff. I haven’t trained as hard so I can’t gauge feeling the same but I’ve krpt all my muscle and no changes in libido,etc.. DIM and calc-D-glucante I use to keep the bad estrogens away as per Crisler recommendation. The only thing that sucks is even when you dial in your exact protocol your body can still change a couple years down the road and you might start aromatizing things more or less, etc.

 

[Knight9]

Free test will boost from ED shallow IM shots. I was on 300mg/wk(100mg3x/wk) for years and now at 25mg ED shallow IM free test is in the high 200’s/low 300’s. On 300mg I think it was like 400free test do not a huge diff. Plus AI in the past was always .5mg Adex 2-3x/wk but now after numerous blood tests including ultrasensitive Estradiol I can use only .1mg Adex 3x per week(only .3mg total vs 1-1.5mg) so huge diff. I haven’t trained as hard so I can’t gauge feeling the same but I’ve krpt all my muscle and no changes in libido,etc.. DIM and calc-D-glucante I use to keep the bad estrogens away as per Crisler recommendation. The only thing that sucks is even when you dial in your exact protocol your body can still change a couple years down the road and you might start aromatizing things more or less, etc.

Personally, I'd think I'd want that extra 100 points of free testosterone.

 

[rmtt]

What I am interested to know is the following. Imagine you are doing 200-300mg test weekly and have free test at x....let's say 60. Will you feel the same if you halve the dose to 100-150mg and can somehow boost your free test (through boron, nettle root, proviron...whatever) to the same 60? Thus, giving you a great chance to avoid ai if not overly sensitive or perhaps mediate it through zinc and DIM etc. I really want to know if the SAME free test values give you the same performance while mitigating/controlling estrogen and blood viscosity?

That's a good question. I think that is one of the topics that is in Emeric's thread about pinning less more often to raise free test on lower amounts of gear.I know from personal experience where I like my estrogen levels to be as I can feel a difference when at the lower end or higher end of range. Now I do use DIM at 200mg daily....but I started using that when I hit 40 years old.

But lowering my dose did lower my total and free test numbers....although I don't know if going to pinning ED reduced the percentage by which they were lowered. Maybe it helped...maybe it might of not mattered.

We know that lowering SHBG can increase Free Test numbers. But what is the best way to go about that without affecting the issues you mentioned?

Do we use another compound (masteron?/proviron?) or products that lower cortisol levels which can lower SHBG ..or will these cause other issues we may not understand?

I don't know what the DHT stuff would do to my prostate....but I don't have a history of that or MPB in my family. My problem is that I just haven't tried or taken a lot of different compounds.

The way I see it is if I am making progress in the gym, feel good for my age, and getting back good labs....then I am happy. There is no need for me to push anything as it may only increase my progress by 10%....but open up another whole can of worms.

I can't say I don't think about the "what if's".....but at my age it isn't worth the risk unless I have proof that I'm not doing something I will regret later.

 

[needthepump]

To check your basic blood clotting status a PT, PTT, and INR are worth ordering, especially in a person with high hemoglobin, hematocrit, RBC, and platelets. These tests should be available from the online lab places (private md labs, direct labs etc). More advanced testing of clotting factors would probably need to come from your own doctor. People with a hyper-coag or abnormally faster clotting blood are of course at risk for blood clots in the legs DVT and worse a PE. These people should probably stay at TRT dosages as blasting and cruising is playing with fire.

 

[maldorf]

To check your basic blood clotting status a PT, PTT, and INR are worth ordering, especially in a person with high hemoglobin, hematocrit, RBC, and platelets. These tests should be available from the online lab places (private md labs, direct labs etc). More advanced testing of clotting factors would probably need to come from your own doctor. People with a hyper-coag or abnormally faster clotting blood are of course at risk for blood clots in the legs DVT and worse a PE. These people should probably stay at TRT dosages as blasting and cruising is playing with fire.

Even true HRT can get you in trouble. The hemoglobin will slowly build up to an unsafe level. The way that Emeric does it, 10 mg a day, seems to work best from what I hear on here. I do mine once a week but only need to do a phlebotomy now once every 3 months. At first I was having to do it once a month. On 100 mg/wk.

 

[Thebigone]

Personally, I'd think I'd want that extra 100 points of free testosterone.

You would but not for just TRT if your goal is still health. ED injects by far are the way to go regardless of TRT or on a cycle. If 175mg/wk ED got my free test to 330 and 300mg/wk(100mg 3x/wk) got it to low 400’s just imagine 300mg split up ED.


Also SHBG will tank for most people on a cycle or even higher than normal TRT. My SHBG was always low like 7 or 8 when on 300mg/wk but after at 20mg ED it was actually in normal range. Around 28 I think. When I up’d It to 25md ED it went to 18 but I think it’s important to still manage SHBG when on TRT. On a cycle don’t even bother.

 

[1fst400]

Interesting to hear people on this board say that Nolvadex is an AI and then try to espouse medical knowledge. I wasn't aware there were so many seasoned Doctors or Medical Researchers here...

 

[dale338]

You would but not for just TRT if your goal is still health. ED injects by far are the way to go regardless of TRT or on a cycle. If 175mg/wk ED got my free test to 330 and 300mg/wk(100mg 3x/wk) got it to low 400’s just imagine 300mg split up ED.


Also SHBG will tank for most people on a cycle or even higher than normal TRT. My SHBG was always low like 7 or 8 when on 300mg/wk but after at 20mg ED it was actually in normal range. Around 28 I think. When I up’d It to 25md ED it went to 18 but I think it’s important to still manage SHBG when on TRT. On a cycle don’t even bother.

When you do daily injections, for TRT, are they subQ or IM? And what do you use, a slin pin or needle? Lots of conflicting reports on subQ TRT daily dosing. I've been strongly considering giving it a go, but like half those who did or do it, swear by it and the other half swear you just don't absorb the oils correctly.

 

[needthepump]

Even true HRT can get you in trouble. The hemoglobin will slowly build up to an unsafe level. The way that Emeric does it, 10 mg a day, seems to work best from what I hear on here. I do mine once a week but only need to do a phlebotomy now once every 3 months. At first I was having to do it once a month. On 100 mg/wk.

yes i noticed 150mg a week had me slightly over normal and needing arimidex. I am trying emeric's every other day injection protocol and its been nice not having the blood counts pushing out of normal and also nice not to use an AI.

 

[needthepump]

When you do daily injections, for TRT, are they subQ or IM? And what do you use, a slin pin or needle? Lots of conflicting reports on subQ TRT daily dosing. I've been strongly considering giving it a go, but like half those who did or do it, swear by it and the other half swear you just don't absorb the oils correctly.

SQ. I prefer 27 gauge TB needles myself while rotating abdomen spots.

 

[Stewie]

In other words, if these are all normal/optimal and the person doesn't have any genetic coagulation traits, the likelihood of a cardiovascular event resulting from high H/H isn't as high?

No, not really. There's other biomarkers outside of these. There's acute responses like the flu, pneumonia or acquired autoimmune conditions, such as acquired antiphospholipid antibody syndrome, ect.

 

[maldorf]

yes i noticed 150mg a week had me slightly over normal and needing arimidex. I am trying emeric's every other day injection protocol and its been nice not having the blood counts pushing out of normal and also nice not to use an AI.

I would be doing it too, but I don't need an AI now and do a phlebotomy at most once every three months. Last year I think I only did it maybe 3 times. I'm getting along ok with once a week 100 mg.

I think you will be better off doing Emeric's protocol. You should report back how it works out for you.