Exercise Science is Killing Your Gains

[IntenseVolume]

Well said. Came across this IronCulture podcast today and thought it was a good listen as they talk a lot about the history of sport/lifting science, limitations, what it's NOT meant for, practical applications and opportunities within the field, (and stuff you touched in above) etc.

nice. Ill definitely give this a listen

 

[qbkilla]

exercise science is far from a settled science there’s really no such thing as a settled science but exercise science is really far from a singular conclusion. it’s not useless though. I’d say the misuse and misunderstanding of the limitations leading to being dogmatic is the issue imo.

not the biggest fan of Isratel but he explained best with
”Sports science is composed of studies that can at best be described as hypothesis generating



When they find something you don’t take it and run to the bank with it and instantly start to train with whatever number of sets they said or whatever load they said you take that study and you integrate it into your applied practice where you use personal anecdote as well as experience with others as well as theory of physiology in order to form the properly best approach you can at the time

The whole triad is called evidence based practice

Direct evidence, theoretical rationale and personal experience and practical experience “

Agree with this. On top of that, "exercise science" is just interesting, and listening to videos makes cardio go by faster. Even though I'm not interested in strength, been listening to alot of pavel and the Soviet stuff lately for periodization and strength training. Interesting that there isn't much new stuff coming from other countries or arleaat that I hear of. Seems like at one time the Soviet methods were considered superior to American but they are no longer talked about much.

 

[madg]

Really interesting! Is that how you made your best gains? What would a workout look like?

Yes and i still train like this

18 years in gym never been injured

Chest/back
Cable croosover 5 set
Incline barbell pres 5 set
Flat DB press 5 set
Dips 5 set
Pullups 5 set
Barbell row 5 set
Seated cable row 5 set
Close grip pulldown 5 set

Crunches ss hyperextensions 5 set

 

[Bobik]

Yes and i still train like this

18 years in gym never been injured

Chest/back
Cable croosover 5 set
Incline barbell pres 5 set
Flat DB press 5 set
Dips 5 set
Pullups 5 set
Barbell row 5 set
Seated cable row 5 set
Close grip pulldown 5 set

Crunches ss hyperextensions 5 set

every set to failure?

 

[madg]

every set to failure?

I train like padilla

5x12 with same weight

When can do all 5 set easy either increase bit weight or decrease rest between sets

So you could say last 2 to failure

 

[Drago]

I train like padilla

5x12 with same weight

When can do all 5 set easy either increase bit weight or decrease rest between sets

So you could say last 2 to failure

how much rest between sets ?

 

[madg]

how much rest between sets ?

1 min isolation
2 min compounds

 

[marssel]

i don’t really set out to do x amount of sets and I don’t think reps matter all that much Up to a point. I do take all my sets close to failure to the point to where I can’t complete another rep with good form.
i was looking over my last chest/shoulder day and not counting drop sets on one movement I had 24 working sets.

when I was younger and healthier I trained low to moderate volume where my focus was the progressive overload and beating the logbook.

You say you don’t focus on sets or reps but then you quote your gym logbook, seems kinda like you do count. Not trying to be rude but when I say I’m training with say intuitive I literally have no clue what my rep count is when I come off a pump set or say a drop. I can say it was prolly between 30-60 reps but it’s literally a 20-30 rep guess and I only care about the pump so if that’s 5 or 50 for me is irrelevant bc I feel the pump and see it in the mirror and that never lies nor does it require me to sit and ponder my rep count which is highly variable based on sleep, food, mental focus but giving 100% is always a success and a step forward. I’d toss that log book and just sling iron and have some fun brother

 

[IntenseVolume]

You say you don’t focus on sets or reps but then you quote your gym logbook, seems kinda like you do count. Not trying to be rude but when I say I’m training with say intuitive I literally have no clue what my rep count is when I come off a pump set or say a drop. I can say it was prolly between 30-60 reps but it’s literally a 20-30 rep guess and I only care about the pump so if that’s 5 or 50 for me is irrelevant bc I feel the pump and see it in the mirror and that never lies nor does it require me to sit and ponder my rep count which is highly variable based on sleep, food, mental focus but giving 100% is always a success and a step forward. I’d toss that log book and just sling iron and have some fun brother

I track my workouts as I’m doing them but I don’t go into the gym and decide x amount of sets of reps. My training changes depending on the day except for the body part. I have no clue what my rep count is either. I just go until I can’t another one. If I’m on a movement and I’m really connecting with it that day then I’ll stay with it whether it’s 2 sets or 5, etc.
I have a log on another forum and that’s the reason i keep up with it.
Example:
Db incline 120,110,110,105,90
No idea my rep count and didn’t set out to x exercises for x sets or reps.
The only thing set in stone is the body parts on the day.
I didn’t consciously count my sets and I didn’t know how many I actually did until I went back and counted.
It’s not a log book to track much of anything except to remember what I did to put them in my log.

 

[marssel]

I track my workouts as I’m doing them but I don’t go into the gym and decide x amount of sets of reps. My training changes depending on the day except for the body part. I have no clue what my rep count is either. I just go until I can’t another one. If I’m on a movement and I’m really connecting with it that day then I’ll stay with it whether it’s 2 sets or 5, etc.
I have a log on another forum and that’s the reason i keep up with it.
Example:
Db incline 120,110,110,105,90
No idea my rep count and didn’t set out to x exercises for x sets or reps.
The only thing set in stone is the body parts on the day.
I didn’t consciously count my sets and I didn’t know how many I actually did until I went back and counted.
It’s not a log book to track much of anything except to remember what I did to put them in my log.

That sounds solid, I misinterpreted your post but I do appreciate the reply that was courteous and civil. Most guys get on their feelings if there’s a miscommunication, your method is smart, glad you elaborated for me. Thanks.

 

[qbkilla]

Escalating Density Training: Revisited

With EDT, sets and reps don’t matter. Just pick two exercises, set your stopwatch, and get to work. Check it out. I’m here to tell you that sets and reps don’t matter. That’s right, forget everything you’ve been told about the perfect number of sets or ideal rep ranges. The total workload you...

forums.t-nation.com

I think this will be the next big thing, density training... accumulating as many reps as possible. Seems like now everyone is hung up on long length partials

 

[marssel]

Escalating Density Training: Revisited

With EDT, sets and reps don’t matter. Just pick two exercises, set your stopwatch, and get to work. Check it out. I’m here to tell you that sets and reps don’t matter. That’s right, forget everything you’ve been told about the perfect number of sets or ideal rep ranges. The total workload you...

forums.t-nation.com

I think this will be the next big thing, density training... accumulating as many reps as possible. Seems like now everyone is hung up on long length partials

Sounds like what I do which is pump chasing which for me is volume which always results in density. Seems like the rebranding of shit is just what shit is now. Meadows was pushing partials as part of volume training years ago and always just said “chase that pump”

 

[Yousef12O2]

Same hete brother

20 sets per muscle group
2 tmes per week

That what i was taught 40 sets per week per bp

What do you mean by 20 sets? Do the warmups count? Say youre doing shoulder press with a bar
45lbs x12
135x10
185x8
225x6
275x all out
You count these as 1 set or 5 sets?

 

[Yousef12O2]

Yea I came in the 20 sets base guys and still rock that and I love it. Dorian’s 1 set method worked for him but can you imagine if Dorian trained like say Branch? I think he woukda been 30 lbs heavier

If you watch ronnie colemans videos he only did 1 set to failure per exercise. He wasnt pressing the 200s for 4 sets of 12. It was a one all out set and move on to another exercise.

 

[IntenseVolume]

If you watch ronnie colemans videos he only did 1 set to failure per exercise. He wasnt pressing the 200s for 4 sets of 12. It was a one all out set and move on to another exercise.

The difference is some of Ronnie’s sets working up to the failure set were high enough effort to build muscle.

Dorian’s sets weren’t. He did warm up and feeler sets coming nowhere close to failure then one all out set. Dorian was trying to avoid taxing the muscle so he could be as strong as possible on his actual one working set.

Ronnie also trained everything 2x a week

 

[Jefe]

Very well put when you said it doesn’t work for the individual but does for the group

 

[Jefe]

Yes, these tripod people never seem improve their physique and never break a sweat.

I have to have my notepad because I can’t remember a fucking thing

 

[Drago]

I train like padilla

5x12 with same weight

When can do all 5 set easy either increase bit weight or decrease rest between sets

So you could say last 2 to failure

how much rest between sets ?

 

[qbkilla]

Some things I've noticed recently..

Lyle and maybe others are questioning an agenda is behind scholfields research and his echo chamber. Saying maybe all his stuff isn't valid and he's looking to mislead.

Paul Carter is the new Mike mentzer. Gets more extreme with low volume, low reps, "real intensity" lol

It looks like everyone has accepted Chris Beardsley's effective reps model in describing how mechanical tension is the driver of hypertrophy... although results over time show that there may be other factors.

Seems like no one anymore thinks metabolic stress, pump, damage cause growth. Basically everything Milos preaches they are against. I don't agree with this I like Milos style... maybe it's the sarcoplasmic hypertrophy as to why it works?

Seems like most agree progressive isn't a driver of growth yet a result of it. Meaning it isn't an end all goal rather a way to track and make sure your program is working.

 

[IntenseVolume]

Some things I've noticed recently..

Lyle and maybe others are questioning an agenda is behind scholfields research and his echo chamber. Saying maybe all his stuff isn't valid and he's looking to mislead.

Paul Carter is the new Mike mentzer. Gets more extreme with low volume, low reps, "real intensity" lol

It looks like everyone has accepted Chris Beardsley's effective reps model in describing how mechanical tension is the driver of hypertrophy... although results over time show that there may be other factors.

Seems like no one anymore thinks metabolic stress, pump, damage cause growth. Basically everything Milos preaches they are against. I don't agree with this I like Milos style... maybe it's the sarcoplasmic hypertrophy as to why it works?

Seems like most agree progressive isn't a driver of growth yet a result of it. Meaning it isn't an end all goal rather a way to track and make sure your program is working.

Man I used to like Paul Carter but he’s so dogmatic and when he’s questioned he just insults people and then blocks them. Hell he even insults people just for asking advice or clarification. He’s one of those there’s only one way, his way. He’s a Chris Beardsley disciple.
Honestly I think part of the reason he’s like that is because he’s only regurgitating Chris and doesn’t fully understand it hisself.

The difference with Mike and Paul is Mike actually put his money where is mouth was. Mentzers advice was really solid until he went off the deep end.

Go ask Scott Stevenson or Layne Norton a question and see how much of a difference the interaction is. They’ve got the actual education and proven track record and experience.
They’re both evidence based meets in the trenches.