Exercise Science is Killing Your Gains

[qbkilla]

Man I used to like Paul Carter but he’s so dogmatic and when he’s questioned he just insults people and then blocks them. Hell he even insults people just for asking advice or clarification. He’s one of those there’s only one way, his way. He’s a Chris Beardsley disciple.
Honestly I think part of the reason he’s like that is because he’s only regurgitating Chris and doesn’t fully understand it hisself.

The difference with Mike and Paul is Mike actually put his money where is mouth was. Mentzers advice was really solid until he went off the deep end.

Go ask Scott Stevenson or Layne Norton a question and see how much of a difference the interaction is. They’ve got the actual education and proven track record and experience.
They’re both evidence based meets in the trenches.

Yep, it may have been you, but I recall on another thread someone mentioned his poundstone curls, big little workouts, etc. now he doesn't even acknowledge his past views it's just all Chris Beardsley's stuff. Guy is the same way I asked him a question and he blocked me (Chris) lol. But yeah Paul it seems like yesterday the hypertrophy rep range was 3-5, today 2-4, tomorrow 1-3 I guess. But like some guys say online "when you can generate intensity like I do...that brutal brutal brutal intensity that mere mortals can't, you don't need all those sets and reps. My type of training is for the truley advanced, not faint of heart, because I generate the intensity that everyone is too pussy for"

How many times have we heard some program is for "the advanced"

 

[slayer37]

Man I used to like Paul Carter but he’s so dogmatic and when he’s questioned he just insults people and then blocks them. Hell he even insults people just for asking advice or clarification. He’s one of those there’s only one way, his way. He’s a Chris Beardsley disciple.
Honestly I think part of the reason he’s like that is because he’s only regurgitating Chris and doesn’t fully understand it hisself.

The difference with Mike and Paul is Mike actually put his money where is mouth was. Mentzers advice was really solid until he went off the deep end.

Go ask Scott Stevenson or Layne Norton a question and see how much of a difference the interaction is. They’ve got the actual education and proven track record and experience.
They’re both evidence based meets in the trenches.

Paul Carter is the biggest douchebag on the internet. Hands down. And his cult- like followers are all small.

 

[Mufasa123]

I'm so glad I have avoided the modern training science wave. Not that I haven't spent plenty of time on science and in the trench but seems we jumped the shark long ago.

 

[Oldwhitedude]

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[KillerStack]

The difference is some of Ronnie’s sets working up to the failure set were high enough effort to build muscle.

I would argue there was no real failure point ar all because he started cheating from the first and then it just got worse. Think about the t-bars, where does he fail or not at all, impossible to say because the "reps" are ill defined and atrocius from the start. This not to say they didn't actually do anything.

Trigili is always wrong about his training critique. For example he will say of a guy dumbell pressing 180lbs dumbells but only doing half or two thirds of the way, not extending fully and say that's doing nothing for his pecs. How can you be this stupid? Or say doing squats not quite to parallel, same critique. If partials didn't work we would have a lot less muscular people and pros (Branch Warren). Remember the range of motion that Jason Huh did? "Doesn't work " LOL. Israetel said Ronnie didn't go deep enough on squats abd could've been bigger if he had LOL.

 

[IntenseVolume]

I would argue there was no real failure point ar all because he started cheating from the first and then it just got worse. Think about the t-bars, where does he fail or not at all, impossible to say because the "reps" are ill defined and atrocius from the start. This not to say they didn't actually do anything.

Trigili is always wrong about his training critique. For example he will say of a guy dumbell pressing 180lbs dumbells but only doing half or two thirds of the way, not extending fully and say that's doing nothing for his pecs. How can you be this stupid? Or say doing squats not quite to parallel, same critique. If partials didn't work we would have a lot less muscular people and pros (Branch Warren). Remember the range of motion that Jason Huh did? "Doesn't work " LOL. Israetel said Ronnie didn't go deep enough on squats abd could've been bigger if he had LOL.

They’re not atrocious. He did them in a way that targeted the body part for him.

I’ve seen blood and guts hundreds of times.
I usually throw it on before I go train.

Where did he fail? He was cheating from the start? He was moving the weight until it he couldn’t in the way that allowed him to build as much muscle as possible.
People are not a perfectly designed biomechanical robots.

All that matters at the end of the day is what gets the job done not what looks best.

As far as isratel and the full rom sounds like I agree with you. There’s a difference between full rom and active rom. Why are the guys who are sticklers some perfect form never the ones who build the most muscle?

What looks pretty or perfect to the eye isn’t always what works best.
Look at Dusty when he’s rowing. Look at the back he built doing it. Is he doing it wrong?

 

[Deleted member 61292]

IMO Stan Efferding is the best in the space when it comes to science and practical application.

 

[Ak47]

The problem is that so many people want to be spoon fed info. Want to know what the best rep range is for you? Take an exercise get as fucking strong on it with good form and find out what you like best and where you grow best. It’s really simple as that. A lot of f*ckers don’t want to put in the work. Well the gym is the closest thing to meritocracy as you can get. You get from it only what you put into it. Do the work and do what works for you. I don’t need Paul Carter or any guy taking 5g or more of gear telling me what works.

 

[Oldwhitedude]

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[madg]

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Tons of these fagots at my gym

 

[qbkilla]

Imo the science stuff is more valuable for diet vs training. Training.. the most important is to actually activate the target muscle and train hard... studies can't measure that. Overtraining? I think common sense is a preventative measure if your worried about it the body will tell you your doing too much and not recovering. Your sore, feel like shit, don't want to workout...your body is telling your doing too much or not sleeping eating enough, no need for a study.

But stuff like this is valuable... getting lean, need more refeed days, stack 2 back to back vs just doing them more often

 

[Oldwhitedude]

Imo the science stuff is more valuable for diet vs training. Training.. the most important is to actually activate the target muscle and train hard... studies can't measure that. Overtraining? I think common sense is a preventative measure if your worried about it the body will tell you your doing too much and not recovering. Your sore, feel like shit, don't want to workout...your body is telling your doing too much or not sleeping eating enough, no need for a study.

But stuff like this is valuable... getting lean, need more refeed days, stack 2 back to back vs just doing them more often

They've been very wrong about fundamentals like protein intake.

 

[Muay Thai]

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my 13 year old is twice as ripped as this fool
I will never trust someone with fitness or health advice that has NEVER been in the shape, does not have the credentials, and REFERENCES. ALL 3 must be there or gtfo. never trust a chubby or flabby trainer or coach

unless that coach is a legend from 90s or 80s and is chilling in life right now.

 

[qbkilla]

They've been very wrong about fundamentals like protein intake.

Very true. I feel like the science guys are still trying to say above 1g per lb is a waste even with studies showing we can assimilate large quantities.

 

[MAD_SCIENTIST]

my 13 year old is twice as ripped as this fool
I will never trust someone with fitness or health advice that has NEVER been in the shape, does not have the credentials, and REFERENCES. ALL 3 must be there or gtfo. never trust a chubby or flabby trainer or coach

unless that coach is a legend from 90s or 80s and is chilling in life right now.

@Muay Thai ...hope your new year is going well thus far.
I like your explanation/analogy on trusting ,you need at least to look the part.
Like they say "never trust a skinny chef".
May the rest of your year be blessed.

MS

 

[BigBoss]

What has training science revealed that has changed modern bodybuilding (that isn't already in old books like Arnolds Encyclopedia)? I can't think of much other than studies of muscle activation of various exercises.

 

[qbkilla]

What has training science revealed that has changed modern bodybuilding (that isn't already in old books like Arnolds Encyclopedia)? I can't think of much other than studies of muscle activation of various exercises.

I think the effective reps and myo reps are valuable. Ways to accumulate more volume in a shorter period of time. They also confirmed partials and loaded stretching help. But overall yeah I don't think overall science has revealed anything that invalidates the typical bro science has taught us and science can actually mislead us

 

[astrosfan123]

Paul Carter is the biggest douchebag on the internet. Hands down. And his cult- like followers are all small.

i didnt want to start a whole new thread on paul carter but has anyone seen this new thing he is talking about. Gaining muscle without needing a surplus? can some one explain to me like im joe biden what he is talking about lol

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

i didnt want to start a whole new thread on paul carter but has anyone seen this new thing he is talking about. Gaining muscle without needing a surplus? can some one explain to me like im joe biden what he is talking about lol

it is just he whole "maingaining" or "gaintaining" conversation. It is the idea that if you you can build muscle eating at maintenance and then adding a very slight surplus of protein is all you need to gain, the idea of "bulking" is dead. Not advocating for him, just saying what he is saying. I do think large surpluses are unnecessary, but eating at maintenance calories or deficit will significantly limit growth potential.

that said, he also does the, "well if you don't gain at maintenance, it is because our training sucks, so you need to join my subscription training app to learn how to do it."

he is not wrong about everything, but he is a dbag

 

[buck]

I would have to think eating a small surplus will equate to small gains. I tend to shoot for optimal myself. I find really buking up and even getting kind of fat may work out OK one time. It did for me. But doing that year after year i found to be far less productive. I am guessing having a small surplus and making gains may need a bigger anabolic load then if more calories are supplied with a lower anabolic load.