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Family awarded 11 million for mother who died from kratom overdose

I of course believe in personal responsibility. By the same token, I also believe in corporate responsibility. One does not remove the other.

When the narcotic drug (kratom) that an entity markets as a "nutrititional," "health" or "sleep" supplement and distributes freely to the world without being subject to drug safety standards is characterized by its reducing (even eliminating) the very capacity for choice, the concept of personal responsibility becomes totally illusory, when one is in the pangs of physical withdrawal and has the availability of a drug that not only relieves that pain but even gives euphoria.

With kratom abuse, Opioid-Related Endocrinopathies with health maladies (impotence, hemorrhoids, constipation, etc.) are common, and they require real treatment for opioid use disorder. I say they are common because I have worked with several bodybuilders that had overlapping syndromes that converged on low free-androgen index & intractable impotence despite TRT or higher doses, and they all had the same thing in common, multiyears dependence on kratom because they were told by "reputable bros" that kratom was not only harmless but beneficial.

Clearly, I am not alone in my view that personal responsibility does not obviate other responsibilities, e.g., those on the marketer & distributor. The United States justice system agrees that this business' conduct went beyond mere sleaze, constituting an actionable wrong (wrongful death) subject to severe penalty ($11,000,000,000 in damages).
says somebody who makes money from peoples fuck ups.
all good but, kindy yukky especially with such self promotion.
this is coming from someone who has use more drugs then probably the entire board combined.
its all my fault. just like anyone else.
as i have said before friend you wreak of lack of real world experience but also someone happy to profit from it.
mirrors are scary for me too. probably for other reasons.
none of this is said in a bad way.
 
I feel like I’ve spent 11 mill on kratom for my own personal use over the last 15 years. Not easy to give it up but it’s better than dying of an addiction to harder street drugs.

From a harm reduction standpoint, a kratom user is leagues from heroin, or even alcohol for that matter. The most significant side effect is constipation.
 
says somebody who makes money from peoples fuck ups.
all good but, kindy yukky especially with such self promotion.
this is coming from someone who has use more drugs then probably the entire board combined.
its all my fault. just like anyone else.
as i have said before friend you wreak of lack of real world experience but also someone happy to profit from it.
mirrors are scary for me too. probably for other reasons.
none of this is said in a bad way.
You must not like me very much, to see my post as self promotion, and not dissuading people from fucking themselves up...
 
Another one of these ridiculous cases, NFL player dwane Haskins was high and walked into traffic and got hit by a truck. Family suing everyone including a road crew that worked near by and the dump truck driver, I believe they already won with the driver. Images driving a dump truck to make a living and you get sued by the family of a millionaire football player.
 
You must not like me very much, to see my post as self promotion, and not dissuading people from fucking themselves up...
lol
dont take it that way bro!
i dont know you.
i just see how you post. i see that your intent may be to help people. so thats great and all but when people lack physical real world experience in doing things while providing advice i feel its also sort of iresponsible and or not painting the full picture. at the very least biased based on pure ignorence. aka lack of experience.
your titles give your words weight.
in place of titles i have real world experience.
gotta keep you readers in check.
i am generally the first to say dont do something. because i have done it. that said i generally opt for kratom or would go for heroine or other scary opiate in place of tylenol 9 time out of 10.
thank you for providing the left end of the spectrum and please keep posting bro!
if liking is enjoying your post then i like you!
big hugs!
all in fun
 
There is no more personal accountability in the US anymore , i think it started in the 90’s when that dumb bitch spilled McDonald’s coffee in her lap.
where do we draw the line.??
if I decide to suck start a pistol my family can sue the gun manufacturer for building an efficient weapon , the ammo manufacturer for making a lethal bullet.??
if a guy goes and buys a high end sport bike and drives it into the back of a car at 180 miles an hr his family can sue for making the bike to fast or not safe enough.??
if an asshole cuts off an 18 wheeler then brake checks them and gets run over can the family sue the driver and trucking company.??
if someone breaks into your house , slips and falls in your kitchen they can sue you for their injuries.
not saying anything of the above case will win in court and be awarded but they absolutely can be brought to court

the courts even entertaining this stupid shit is who is to blame
Couldn't said it any better 💯 % true 👍 👏
 
Not really. Lady sets a steaming coffee she ordered from McDonald's drive through, between her crotch and then drives away, it spills and burns her. She got awarded 11 million. There is some real dumbasses when it comes to judges nowadays.
As I understand the case, the coffee was so hot that it melted the bottom out of the styrofoam cup, then the coffee spilled in her lap.
 
As I understand the case, the coffee was so hot that it melted the bottom out of the styrofoam cup, then the coffee spilled in her lap.
If it did it would have to be 464 F. Styrofoam will soften at 212 F and melt at 464 F.
 
If it did it would have to be 464 F. Styrofoam will soften at 212 F and melt at 464 F.
I stand corrected.

Did not know that (obviously). Thank you.
 
I of course believe in personal responsibility. By the same token, I also believe in corporate responsibility. One does not remove the other.

When the narcotic drug (kratom) that an entity markets as a "nutrititional," "health" or "sleep" supplement and distributes freely to the world without being subject to drug safety standards is characterized by its reducing (even eliminating) the very capacity for choice, the concept of personal responsibility becomes totally illusory, when one is in the pangs of physical withdrawal and has the availability of a drug that not only relieves that pain but even gives euphoria.

With kratom abuse, Opioid-Related Endocrinopathies with health maladies (impotence, hemorrhoids, constipation, etc.) are common, and they require real treatment for opioid use disorder. I say they are common because I have worked with several bodybuilders that had overlapping syndromes that converged on low free-androgen index & intractable impotence despite TRT or higher doses, and they all had the same thing in common, multiyears dependence on kratom because they were told by "reputable bros" that kratom was not only harmless but beneficial.

Clearly, I am not alone in my view that personal responsibility does not obviate other responsibilities, e.g., those on the marketer & distributor. The United States justice system agrees that this business' conduct went beyond mere sleaze, constituting an actionable wrong (wrongful death) subject to severe penalty ($11,000,000,000 in damages).
You make some really good points. It makes me think that part of the reason they won their lawsuit was just to make an example of the manufacturers. Just to kind of shake up that industry and let them know that there can be consequences. Also, it might deter them from selling it the way they are. I don’t believe that family actually deserves $11 mil for her addiction problem, but I can see how it may help regulate the product without making specific laws to do so. I’d imagine making new laws will take a lot longer, and they saw this as an opportunity to help.
 
You make some really good points. It makes me think that part of the reason they won their lawsuit was just to make an example of the manufacturers. Just to kind of shake up that industry and let them know that there can be consequences. Also, it might deter them from selling it the way they are. I don’t believe that family actually deserves $11 mil for her addiction problem, but I can see how it may help regulate the product without making specific laws to do so. I’d imagine making new laws will take a lot longer, and they saw this as an opportunity to help.
Thanks bro. Mostly Devil's Advocacy, to consider the counterarguments, since I do generally take a caveat emptor approach to personal use of drugs, supplements, foods, etc. The $11M seems severe to me also, it may have been treble damages or something punitive, for the sake of deterrence.
 
lol
dont take it that way bro!
i dont know you.
i just see how you post. i see that your intent may be to help people. so thats great and all but when people lack physical real world experience in doing things while providing advice i feel its also sort of iresponsible and or not painting the full picture. at the very least biased based on pure ignorence. aka lack of experience.
your titles give your words weight.
in place of titles i have real world experience.
gotta keep you readers in check.
i am generally the first to say dont do something. because i have done it. that said i generally opt for kratom or would go for heroine or other scary opiate in place of tylenol 9 time out of 10.
thank you for providing the left end of the spectrum and please keep posting bro!
if liking is enjoying your post then i like you!
big hugs!
all in fun
OK brother, just, sometimes I see something that makes me wonder how I could possible be perceived in such a way. I never get this kind of hostility face-to-face.
 
OK brother, just, sometimes I see something that makes me wonder how I could possible be perceived in such a way. I never get this kind of hostility face-to-face.
And while there certainly is plenty of face-to-face hostility in the world, this massive Red / Blue divide we perceive in America is much larger and far more hostile in cyberspace as well.
 
OK brother, just, sometimes I see something that makes me wonder how I could possible be perceived in such a way. I never get this kind of hostility face-to-face.
yeah bud chill out
you write well
i do not
i have no hostility nor mal intentet
you seem to be well versed
and well read
i like that
no issues. just different perspective that is all i offer you.
 
I can't agree with this.

Ped users take ped to look a certain way. I would prefer to not have to inject Ed and risk my health but I want to look lean and have a certain amount of lbm.

Drug users take drugs to feel a certain way. I've heard people say "xxx is my feel good compound" but I think the majority of people take compounds based on maximize look and minimize health risk.

Maybe something like ephedrine or caffeine could be compared to junkies.
Steroids are mood-altering drugs, let's not kid ourselves. Not every PED user is a junkie, but there are a lot of steroid junkies out there.
 

Do you guys think there is any personal responsibility or accountability for those who die from supplement overdoses? I can order powdered caffeine and snort it and die for example but could my family sue the supplement company that sold it to me?
We all know kratom can be dangerous to some who abuse it. I personally took it a few years ago for sleep and sometimes powo. I started getting irregular heart beats so I stopped taking it. Obviously the woman that died had a problem with it RIP but clearly was a sign of misuse and abuse??
With a substance like kratom, the person should be blamed, not the seller. This lawsuit is no different than if someone died from alcohol intoxication and then sued the beer company. The reason the court awarded that family money is two-fold. One, the court (and society in general) is ignorant regarding kratom. Two, kratom is socially demonized, while alcohol is socially acceptable.

That lady died because she was an addict...and an irresponsible one, at that. Assuming the product wasn't spiked with fentanyl (or some other opioid), then there is only one person to blame--the drug-addicted, irresponsible mother. No court on Earth would've awarded the family money if she had gone out to a bar and drank herself to death, but they will do so when kratom is involved...for the the reasons stated above.

There is one more reason that stuff like this happens. Big Pharma. Whenever Big Pharma wants to benefit monetarily from a certain substance (such as kratom), the FDA will get involved and begin fighting their battles for them. This extends all the way down to local jurisdictions, such as county courts, media, etc.
 
I of course believe in personal responsibility. By the same token, I also believe in corporate responsibility. One does not remove the other.

When the narcotic drug (kratom) that an entity markets as a "nutrititional," "health" or "sleep" supplement and distributes freely to the world without being subject to drug safety standards is characterized by its reducing (even eliminating) the very capacity for choice, the concept of personal responsibility becomes totally illusory, when one is in the pangs of physical withdrawal and has the availability of a drug that not only relieves that pain but even gives euphoria.

With kratom abuse, Opioid-Related Endocrinopathies with health maladies (impotence, hemorrhoids, constipation, etc.) are common, and they require real treatment for opioid use disorder. I say they are common because I have worked with several bodybuilders that had overlapping syndromes that converged on low free-androgen index & intractable impotence despite TRT or higher doses, and they all had the same thing in common, multiyears dependence on kratom because they were told by "reputable bros" that kratom was not only harmless but beneficial.

Clearly, I am not alone in my view that personal responsibility does not obviate other responsibilities, e.g., those on the marketer & distributor. The United States justice system agrees that this business' conduct went beyond mere sleaze, constituting an actionable wrong (wrongful death) subject to severe penalty ($11,000,000,000 in damages).
The onus is ALWAYS on the user. Putting ANY substance in your body without knowing what it does is straight-up fucking retarded! We all know you HATE kratom an those who sell it, but I don't ever see you attacking UGL's that will sell gear to virtually anyone.

For someone to die of kratom alone, the person would have to be grotesquely irresponsible. Dare I say, even intentional. It is quite difficult to die from kratom unless you're either trying to die or you're an absolute imbecile.

...and anyone who is willing to spend the big dollars on extracts potent enough to potentially cause death knows EXACTLY what they are buying. No one but an idiot would deny that kratom can be physically addictive, but dying? It is easier to due from Tylenol or caffeine than it is from kratom...and the number of documented deaths proves that. Look at the stats. A MUCH larger percentage of Tylenol users die than do kratom users. It' not even remotely comparable. Kratom deaths (i.e., deaths attributable solely to kratom) are almost non-existent. There is a good reason for that...and it's not because people are responsible. It's because it's impossible to difficult to die from solo kratom use. Consider the following...

For one, dying on plain leaf is essentially impossible. Even if someone were trying to die from plain leaf, they would vomit long before that happened, due to the massive quantity of indigestible plant fiber they would need to consume before reaching a lethal dose. Extracts? No one buys extracts with an 80%-90% alkaloid content on accident. Why? Because any naïve kratom buyer, even if they happened to stumble upon high potency extracts, is never going to choose to spend that amount of money on what appears to be a very small amount of material. And even if they did, these extracts are sold in limited quantities, such as blister packs of 2-3 caps...and maybe 5 caps. Eve if a total newb was to spend the money on one of those packs...and be dumb enough to consume all the caps, they still aren't going to die. High potency extracts aren't sold in bulk on regular websites due to cost. You need to approach distributers for that...and only a small number if distributors make these vert potency extracts. Are you suggesting that some newb is going to accidentally stumble upon these potent extracts, spend a bunch of money on multiple packs...and then slam them all back without a second thought? Sorry, but no...that isn't happening, but if it did, it's probably best to eliminate such a person from the gene pool anyway.

On top of that, the particular partial agonists within kratom known for activating Mu and Delta receptors (namely, mitragynine and speciocilliatine), do not depress respiration to nearly the same degree as traditional, full agonists. This is one of the main reasons why kratom deaths are so rare, despite literally millions and millions of people using these products every single day. The point here is that unintentionally dying from kratom ranges from IMPOSSIBLE to very difficult.

In conclusion, assuming this product was not tainted with fentanyl other opioids (in which case the company would clearly be at fault), there is only ONE person to blame in this--the USER!
 

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