Favorite low dose cycle for under 600mg/wk

[qbkilla]

Sounds good. If you don't want to use an AI it could be worthwhile using the tried and tested combo of test, tren and mast at approx 200mg each. You can't really go wrong with that and one of my best looks was on that exact stack. The results are still there but the side effects are minimal due to the lower dose of each compound. Now if you really want to be anal about the 2 compounds used (don't really get the logic but it's your body) just go with something like 300-400mg test and 300-200mg mast and see how that treats you.

Any orals will work but I would recommend tbol as it's a good all rounder. 20-40mg per day and you should be gtg. Now if you are after strength, fullness and appetite suppression whilst everyone responds differently I think the best would be sdrol, m1t or adrol. Even 10mg of srdol or m1t would be enough for that purpose (10-20mg is the range I recommend to most) and for adrol I would recommend 50mg per day.

Good advice, what is your reasoning for the masteron added to the test/tren? Assuming I don't have estrogen issues, do you think it adds a little something to the stack of test/tren? Or just for the benefits of keeping estrogen one the low end and that helping with keeping lean?

 

[Elvia1023]

Good advice, what is your reasoning for the masteron added to the test/tren? Assuming I don't have estrogen issues, do you think it adds a little something to the stack of test/tren? Or just for the benefits of keeping estrogen one the low end and that helping with keeping lean?

It was more to do with estrogen if you are not using an AI. Masteron is a great compliment but compared to tren in regards to results there is no comparison. You would be much better off just using a little more tren (and test) compared to the addition of masteron if it's solely results that are concerned. Now the 3 drugs compliment each other nicely and masteron is very useful but that's besides the point.

 

[LATS]

I never go above 600 mgs.. so many combos to choose from.. the good thing is being able to run longer cycles .. trust me.. you'll still make great gains.. id rather run lower dosages for long periods then blast and have to come off.. I feel like crap if I go any higher..
Run 250 to 400mgs of test and add 200 mgs of what ya like.. pull it out after 6 or 8 weeks and put something else in..

 

[qbkilla]

I never go above 600 mgs.. so many combos to choose from.. the good thing is being able to run longer cycles .. trust me.. you'll still make great gains.. id rather run lower dosages for long periods then blast and have to come off.. I feel like crap if I go any higher..
Run 250 to 400mgs of test and add 200 mgs of what ya like.. pull it out after 6 or 8 weeks and put something else in..

Good advice, this is pretty much how I do it. Since you stick to under 600mg, do you ever take a lower cruise or do 600mg year round?

 

[LATS]

QUOTE="qbkilla, post: 3062789, member: 33329"]
Good advice, this is pretty much how I do it. Since you stick to under 600mg, do you ever take a lower cruise or do 600mg year round?
[/QUOTE]
No ill drop to 250mg of just test or even a bit less for months.. then do a longer cycle.. the only thing ill do with the lower dose test is gh on workout days.. ill do that until I feel I'm sliding a bit back wards then go back up again.. but it might be two months.. or 4 months.. just by how I feel and my blood work.. but I've ran 300 test and 200 mast for 4 months.. then drop to just test at 250mg for months.. again it's how I feel and look

 

[Biggerp73]

If your reason for keeping the dosage reasonable is you want to keep health risks minimal, then why not stick with bioidentical hormones. Something like 500mg Test, 3iu GH, and maybe a little bit of insulin.

 

[Kaladryn]

Let's be honest in the end and let's face it - don't expect miracles and size increases on low doses, unless your low doses are the highest you have ever taken. If you have used the potential of a given dose to maximize training and diet, then if you want to go further, you must increase the dose - no miracles

Wait, what? I just put on 15lbs of muscle in 3 months on super low doses, much lower than I have used in the past. You aren't accounting for people who are growing with muscle memory. I get what you are saying though, ultimately you are only as big as your dose, but you can resensitize yourself and get amazingly close effects compared to higher doses.

To the OP, I am really enjoying 300 test/150 deca/150 primo, it started as 200/100/100 and will go to 400/200/200 eventually.

 

[luki7788]

Wait, what? I just put on 15lbs of muscle in 3 months on super low doses, much lower than I have used in the past. You aren't accounting for people who are growing with muscle memory. I get what you are saying though, ultimately you are only as big as your dose, but you can resensitize yourself and get amazingly close effects compared to higher doses.

To the OP, I am really enjoying 300 test/150 deca/150 primo, it started as 200/100/100 and will go to 400/200/200 eventually.

What you are talking about is something completely different - from what I understand you have regained the muscles and size that you used to have, and this is something completely different than building new muscles

 

[warlock]

Wait, what? I just put on 15lbs of muscle in 3 months on super low doses, much lower than I have used in the past. You aren't accounting for people who are growing with muscle memory. I get what you are saying though, ultimately you are only as big as your dose, but you can resensitize yourself and get amazingly close effects compared to higher doses.

To the OP, I am really enjoying 300 test/150 deca/150 primo, it started as 200/100/100 and will go to 400/200/200 eventually.

15lbs of muscle in 3 months on such doses is outstanding. Did you change your nutrition throughout the cycle or, are all the gains mostly coming from adding the compounds?

 

[pickapeck]

If your reason for keeping the dosage reasonable is you want to keep health risks minimal, then why not stick with bioidentical hormones. Something like 500mg Test, 3iu GH, and maybe a little bit of insulin.

There are a few reasons this won't be practical for a lot of men. 500 mg/w without any estogen support will result in higher estrogen and DHT levels that can be a problem over time. To get the estrogen down an AI is needed or to block it in certain tissues like breast and prostate a SERM could be used. Both classes are a stressor on the system. Is it more of a stressor than using something like 250 test and 250 Primo? I don't know. It's an individual thing that requires blood work to answer. I know you can dial it in. Probably look a lot better and probably keep health markers in range. That way you need no AI or SERM of estrogen control and adjust the DHT with replacement of 1/2 the dose with a much weaker androgen that is not associated with prostate issues and likely not hair loss at that dose, at least not as much at 500 mg/w of testosterone.

 

[pickapeck]

15lbs of muscle in 3 months on such doses is outstanding. Did you change your nutrition throughout the cycle or, are all the gains mostly coming from adding the compounds?

My bet is muscle memory and the little bump-up. That's how it works after decades of training and PEDs. It just doesn't take much to get back some large % of your gains. Plus the muscel is more functional because you're not pushing doses and full of intracellual water and stiff vasculature (I can explain this again if people want to know).

 

[showstopper83]

Norma Deca 200 mg a week and galeninca enantnste amps one a week. Gained 20 lbs in 8 weeks. First course I ever ran. Have not made gains like that since. Good ol pharma gear. Long gone history

Good ol pharma gear or good ol Virgin Mary receptors? Lol

I was homeless/addicted to drugs for a good 2 years with having no access to gear or pct...

I hopped on a modest cycle of Test E 500mg, EQ 500mg and NPP 300mg of Goldline gear and blew up putting on 23 lean lbs of muscle, and not all of it was muscle memory.

 

[Tomgrass]

My bet is muscle memory and the little bump-up. That's how it works after decades of training and PEDs. It just doesn't take much to get back some large % of your gains. Plus the muscel is more functional because you're not pushing doses and full of intracellual water and stiff vasculature (I can explain this again if people want to know).

Please do.

 

[warlock]

There are a few reasons this won't be practical for a lot of men. 500 mg/w without any estogen support will result in higher estrogen and DHT levels that can be a problem over time. To get the estrogen down an AI is needed or to block it in certain tissues like breast and prostate a SERM could be used. Both classes are a stressor on the system. Is it more of a stressor than using something like 250 test and 250 Primo? I don't know. It's an individual thing that requires blood work to answer. I know you can dial it in. Probably look a lot better and probably keep health markers in range. That way you need no AI or SERM of estrogen control and adjust the DHT with replacement of 1/2 the dose with a much weaker androgen that is not associated with prostate issues and likely not hair loss at that dose, at least not as much at 500 mg/w of testosterone.

You shared some good thoughts. I always felt that using testosterone only would be healthier than splitting the test dose and adding another compound such as primo. However, like you said, some men may experience estrogen issues and may need to add some anti-estrogen which, as we know, could affect the lipid profile. In this case, adding primo to the test mix may be a healthier/better option.

 

[Flex500]

My bet is muscle memory and the little bump-up. That's how it works after decades of training and PEDs. It just doesn't take much to get back some large % of your gains. Plus the muscel is more functional because you're not pushing doses and full of intracellual water and stiff vasculature (I can explain this again if people want to know).

The power of muscle memory is often greatly underestimated. When I came off all trt for our pregnancy try I didn't train much, dropped protein to about 100grams a day and just sort of let things go. I got down to 198 and haven't been that light in years. Just the last 90 days I've gotten strict with my HCG/HMG protocol as well as clomid, upped the calories to 3,000 a day with 225 grams of protein and focused on strength training and I'm making great gains...not really gains...just re-gaining old muscle. Now, I'll hit a limit quickly with no TRT at all and test levels that oscillate between 200-500, but I'm now 220 pounds (~15% bf instead of my normal ~10%).

Once my wife is pregant (say a prayer, knock on wood, etc) I will jump on 140mgs test a week and I expect even more gains. I'm honestly hoping with no more than 200mgs of test I can be back to 220-230 at 10-12%bf.

It's all muscle memory for me and it's incredible. Of course my example is extreme because I dropped it all cold turkey. I started back training and could barely pick up 405 for 2 on deadlift and now I'm doing 15 sets of 3 reps on a 5 inch in deficit with 405. All muscle memory.

I'm droning on but I'm shocked at the improvements I'm making. I've been on some form of PED or TRT from age 24 to 38 and it's all coming back. Again...I'm sure to hit a wall very soon so in no way am I saying "just go natural and there is no difference".

 

[pickapeck]

Please do.

The "steroid pump" is a hyperemia state where the sacoplasm of the muscle, that's the jelly matrix inside the muscle, increases. This volumizes the muscle. At high doses of steroids this causes a problem with athletic activity because the pump caused by increase blood flow restricts blood and oxygen exchange. So cardio output suffers. Think of Matius Putinowski when he first started MMA. He would turn red from increased blood volume, high red cells and hyperemia. He would gas out in one minute. Another issue is hypertonicity of the cardiovascular endothelium. This is a thin layer of smooth muscle that lnes all blood vessles. Normally it pulses and helps the blood move through he circulatory system. These cells also have androgen receptors. Under high androgen concentration the cells "stiffen" thus recducing their pulse rythms. This further complicates circulatory functions. So at high AAS levels you have a situation where red cells can be very high thickening the blood, sarcoplasm is enhanced volumiing the muslceature, added pump from increased blood volume and AAS associated fluid transport, and stiffened endothelium. The end result is reduced cardiac efficency.In the end, this is the reason, although they probably don't realize it, that MMA fighters and other performacne athletes use low end doses.

 

[Biggerp73]

There are a few reasons this won't be practical for a lot of men. 500 mg/w without any estogen support will result in higher estrogen and DHT levels that can be a problem over time. To get the estrogen down an AI is needed or to block it in certain tissues like breast and prostate a SERM could be used. Both classes are a stressor on the system. Is it more of a stressor than using something like 250 test and 250 Primo? I don't know. It's an individual thing that requires blood work to answer. I know you can dial it in. Probably look a lot better and probably keep health markers in range. That way you need no AI or SERM of estrogen control and adjust the DHT with replacement of 1/2 the dose with a much weaker androgen that is not associated with prostate issues and likely not hair loss at that dose, at least not as much at 500 mg/w of testosterone.

That's fair although I had some thoughts as I read it..

(1) 500mg/wk of Test would give some men problems, and those men should avoid those problems, probably by reducing dosage, but perhaps by other means

(1) is using an AI/AE the factor that messes with lipids, or is the low estrogen that results from their use what messes with lipids? I've always assumed it as the low estrogen. For example, a cycle with only non-aromatizable drugs is IIRC the worst for lipids, because there is no estrogen. Even if the androgens used are fairly weak in and of themselves. If the problem is with low estrogen, then AI/AE wouldn't necessarily mess with lipids, as long as their use was tailored to hit specific blood level markers so that estrogen remained healthy

(3) is DHT really a driver of prostate issues? I've seen some back and forth on that, and some studies cited, arguing that DHT isn't really the driver of prostate risk that it was once claimed to be

(4) while it may seem like "holistic" voodoo, I like the idea of only using bioidentical hormones, and if I was cycling trying to reduce health risks, I'd prefer just using test rather than other stuff like primo etc

 

[LK3]

i think mostly at this point its splitting heirs and will depend on what works best for the individual. you really need to try the various combos and see what works best for you.

one of my favorite low dose cycle is test, mast npp.
starting with just trt, ride it up a bit to 200-300 mgs then add in mast 100-200mg wk run that 4-8 weeks until you are at about 200mgs of each then add in npp. test and mast about 200 mgs at this point. add 100 mgs npp. go with that another 4-8 weeks and add in another 100npp. gives you a solid 3 months of recomping while staying 600mg or below. just keep the gains going.

do a 2-6 week reset then blast again with another mix. like 200mg test and some tren. doing that will keep you going.

 

[luki7788]

That's fair although I had some thoughts as I read it..

(1) 500mg/wk of Test would give some men problems, and those men should avoid those problems, probably by reducing dosage, but perhaps by other means

(1) is using an AI/AE the factor that messes with lipids, or is the low estrogen that results from their use what messes with lipids? I've always assumed it as the low estrogen. For example, a cycle with only non-aromatizable drugs is IIRC the worst for lipids, because there is no estrogen. Even if the androgens used are fairly weak in and of themselves. If the problem is with low estrogen, then AI/AE wouldn't necessarily mess with lipids, as long as their use was tailored to hit specific blood level markers so that estrogen remained healthy

(3) is DHT really a driver of prostate issues? I've seen some back and forth on that, and some studies cited, arguing that DHT isn't really the driver of prostate risk that it was once claimed to be

(4) while it may seem like "holistic" voodoo, I like the idea of only using bioidentical hormones, and if I was cycling trying to reduce health risks, I'd prefer just using test rather than other stuff like primo etc

I've been saying this for years and people still know their ... it is not the IA itself that causes lipid problems or joint pain, if you don't lower your estrogen too much but keep it within normal limits then there are no adverse effects of low estrogen.

I will also agree with bio identical hormones and I am sure that I would be able to maintain 90% of health parameters within the norm using even 2.5 g test per week, 10 gh and a lot of insulin a day if only I had the ability to control estrogen, prolactin, sugar and blood pressure a few others drugs

 

[Kaladryn]

15lbs of muscle in 3 months on such doses is outstanding. Did you change your nutrition throughout the cycle or, are all the gains mostly coming from adding the compounds?

Nutrition definitely changed, calories went up significantly, even though I'm still cutting. Training had to change also.

It's muscle memory combined with being perfectly primed before starting, super low dose cruise (12mg/day) and perfect training and diet before I started and after I started.

Honestly, most of the "work" that is making my current gains so good was done before my cycle even started. At 49 all your ducks have to be in a row to make really good gains, especially if you want to stay healthy.