Frequency and Failure question

[asim]

Hey guys.

Got a quick question.

If you train a muscle every 48 hours (mon, wed, fri) should you train the muscle to failure or short of failure?

I know that with DC training a muscle is trained every 4 days and trained to failure. So theres enough rest time. But with 48 hours I'm not so sure. It would be a single exercise, 3 sets with the final set trained to positive failure.

See I dont believe that achieving failure is truly necessary with that kind of frequency but still its questionable if you factor in diet, genetics and the rest of it. I know frequency and failure has been discussed quite a bit here. I'd just like some opinions on this.


Thoughts?

Asim

 

[LMR]

3 days a week i consider whats called circuit training and the only goal achieved is toning not growing. I know the text books sais 48 hours because i took bodybuilding classes in college but the book doesn't account for true bodybuilding principles like ours. I would suggest once a week for growth.

 

[TJB]

What a huge can of worms this is?? Anyway, it really depends on multiple factors ASIM. Your diet, life stress, age, supps, goals, training experience. IS it possible to train the whole body 3X week to failure each set? I say absolutely. There is multiple threads on this board that cover multiple sides of this arguement in depth... Start with 2X week and gauge your progress from there..

Have fun reading and try it for yourself. Noone can REALLY answer this for you. Think smarter not harder.

God Bless,

TJB

 

[RazorCuts]

What a huge can of worms this is?? Anyway, it really depends on multiple factors ASIM. Your diet, life stress, age, supps, goals, training experience. IS it possible to train the whole body 3X week to failure each set? I say absolutely. There is multiple threads on this board that cover multiple sides of this arguement in depth... Start with 2X week and gauge your progress from there..

Have fun reading and try it for yourself. Noone can REALLY answer this for you. Think smarter not harder.

God Bless,

TJB

Great advice.
People need to understand its just not the muscle that needs to recuperate but the whole body and your CNS. Everyone can recuperate at different rates. The thing is training day in an day out to failure unless you are a rank beginner you will hit a wall. Its best to build up over a few weeks and then hit failure for a week out of 4 and then take a break or back off again.
Also training a muscle every 4 or 5 days would be optimum. Either a Mon-Thurs fullbody or an Upper/Lower split everyother day.
You will get a million different opinions and thats what they are opinions. Give everything a fair shake and see how it works for you.
I can go on forever but i think i have said the same thing a million x.

RC

 

[asim]

I considered CNS as one of the factors and thats the reason I posted the question. I felt if you trained a muscle more frequently then failure wouldnt really be required as you want to recover and train again.

Just questions I thought would get a few different sides of the argument.

In the end nutrition is where the key to growth really is.

 

[RazorCuts]

Everything has to be in order for growth. You can train to frequent or not frequent enough. Guys who are looking to put on mass need more frequency then guys who have reached a certain level and looking to maintain. Naturals are different than AAS users.Young are different than older. Genetic freaks are different the the average.
Look at Edge250 he has put on a ton of mass in 7wks training a muscle 2x a week. He is now extremely strong and is hitting a wall. He needs to either back off and build up over a few weeks or take more time in between workouts.
There is no set rules. You need to do what your body tells you.

RC

 

[TJB]

I considered CNS as one of the factors and thats the reason I posted the question. I felt if you trained a muscle more frequently then failure wouldnt really be required as you want to recover and train again.

Just questions I thought would get a few different sides of the argument.

In the end nutrition is where the key to growth really is.

ASIM, there are several threads with both sides and them some on this board that are recent. Just search a little bit. CNS fatigue is a very fine line to walk as well as explain and it hasn't been "nailed down" by anyone but THIS board has had the best discussions I have read anywhere else..

I respectfully disagree on your last point. I absolutely agree that nutrition is extremely important but I believe, ASIM ,the most important part of the process is indeed TRAINING. Drugs, supps and even a meticulous diet do absolutely nothing if you do not "ignite" the growth process.. Therefore your training must take center stage.

Good luck and read everything you can on this board and then go out and APPLY the knowledge you have learned. That my friend is the greatest teacher and "SECRET" of them all..

God Bless,

TJB

 

[juicyr6]

good advice both RC and TJB.

here is my take on this...when it comes to frequency and intensity, when one increases the other one needs to decrease.

so if frequency is increased 3x times a week i think you should not traing to failure... just short of failure...given your diet, rest and supplements are in order, you should be able to progress without having to go to failure.


i think it has been showed that training to failure is not necessary to grow, what is necessary is an increase in overload.

currently i do exactly what u suggested, 1 single exercise 3 sets just short of failure, with a higher frequency than 1 time a week per muscle group.
i;m natural and its working well, never train more than 3 times a week, and never to failure, always take my bcaa's , creatine and glutamine, always sllep around 8-9 hours, every 4-5weeks i take a whole 7 days off training to recuperate the whole body

just my 2 cents

 

[asim]

One of the things that kinda gets to me is the association with failure and non failure. People assume training to failure means training more intense than non failure.

A guy squats 405 for 15 reps and reaches failure, you think right he just trained his ass off. Same guy does 405 for 12 and stops short of failure. His set was just as intense except he stopped short.

I do the 3x a week thing without going to failure but sometimes I'm afraid to increase weights as I dont want to train so hard that I'd tax my cns. I mean I dont think you have to fail even to tax the cns right?

 

[juicyr6]

One of the things that kinda gets to me is the association with failure and non failure. People assume training to failure means training more intense than non failure.

A guy squats 405 for 15 reps and reaches failure, you think right he just trained his ass off. Same guy does 405 for 12 and stops short of failure. His set was just as intense except he stopped short.

I do the 3x a week thing without going to failure but sometimes I'm afraid to increase weights as I dont want to train so hard that I'd tax my cns. I mean I dont think you have to fail even to tax the cns right?

i dont believe you have to fail to tax your CNS, failure will just overtrain you much quicker

i see what you saying, but i guess it depends what people consider intensity.

as far as being afraid of taxing your CNS , then just take a whole week off every 4-6weeks of training.

stopping short of failure to me is ideal as long as i'm progressing .

 

[Conan21]

48 hours

people misunderstand the 48 hours thing. Protein synthesis is extremely elevated for 48 hours after exercise. this doesn't mean muscles necessarily recover in 48 hours. (although possible).

can you train a muscle in 48 hours? Yes, muscles don't need to be recovered to train them again. Look up the Dual Factor training link in the articles section.

if your trying to increase weight/get stronger. from workout A to workout B to workout C......training with 48 hours rest is most likely going to overtrain you. 5 days rest or more is more appropriate for this.

 

[asim]

The idea would be to perform a different exercise on each of those days. So that the week after when you come back to an exercise you'd increase the weights or reps.

 

[JETHRO TULL]

I THINK THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION ASIM.

Hey guys.

Got a quick question.

If you train a muscle every 48 hours (mon, wed, fri) should you train the muscle to failure or short of failure?

I know that with DC training a muscle is trained every 4 days and trained to failure. So theres enough rest time. But with 48 hours I'm not so sure. It would be a single exercise, 3 sets with the final set trained to positive failure.

See I dont believe that achieving failure is truly necessary with that kind of frequency but still its questionable if you factor in diet, genetics and the rest of it. I know frequency and failure has been discussed quite a bit here. I'd just like some opinions on this.


Thoughts?

Asim

I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT IF A PERSON IS TRAINING THAT FREQUENTLY...MAYBE ONE EXERCISE PER BODYPART. THAT'S ALL I CAN RECOVER FROM AT THIS POINT. ONCE IN A WHILE I'LL GET STUPID AND DO MORE....LIKE I DID TODAY.

 

[Queefer]

I think the answer to this question is pretty simple. Every person is different and what works for one guy doesn't work for another. Growing your body is about trial and error. If it works, keep doing it. If it doesn't, try something different. I work each muscle once a week and everythings to failure. I do the exact same excercises each workout and never change anything. My gains all depend on my diet.

 

[Meat_head]

I hope Phil chimes in...

 

[LATS]

three times a week for most people is pushing it.. twice is good for most and they can still recover. if you are the lucky ones that can recover with more frequency.. than go for it.. for me.. twice a week most of the time.. still double what most get in..

 

[juicyr6]

three times a week for most people is pushing it.. twice is good for most and they can still recover. if you are the lucky ones that can recover with more frequency.. than go for it.. for me.. twice a week most of the time.. still double what most get in..

yeah it seems like most people train each bodypart only once a week, ever since i switched to every 4-5 days , i have noticed an increase in hypertrophy and strength