Help with PEDs for grappling

[goback2013]

I would consider gram of tren with halotestin and cheque drops before meeting. Rest in peace to your opponents

re: gram of tren
i know you jest, but tren is the devil when it comes to cardio output.
if one took one gram of tren, that person would gas out before entering the building.

 

[275bills]

I'm up to trying something like this. What brand/type of insulin?
Is this something you can just walk into Walmart and buy ? I heard there's certain types of insulin you can buy without a script.

Definitely get the bodyfat in check before even thinking about slin

 

[goback2013]

Definitely get the bodyfat in check before even thinking about slin

whats percentage bf should one be prior to starting ?

 

[Doitagain]

Before quitting the practice of krav maga many years ago, I found Turinabol to be one of the few AAS that helped quite a bit rather than just not interfering in my training. Good endurance,overall working capacity, even improved coordination/reflexes, no debilitating pumps.
Hated not being able to use by faves without impairing this kind of performance

 

[Cerberus777]

Before quitting the practice of krav maga many years ago, I found Turinabol to be one of the few AAS that helped quite a bit rather than just not interfering in my training. Good endurance,overall working capacity, even improved coordination/reflexes, no debilitating pumps.
Hated not being able to use by faves without impairing this kind of performance

It's pretty good, used a lot by endurance athletes in lower doses

 

[275bills]

whats percentage bf should one be prior to starting ?

I can only answer for myself but I won’t use slin unless i feel like a fairly lean. Even then i only use it post workout few times a week

 

[NEMSZ]

Good morning guys

Figured I would hit this one first. Believe it or not but their dosages for the utilization of EPO seem to be highly conservative (anecdotally from what I have read about). The issue there in lies in the nature of the event itself and the understanding at the time of proper hydration.

The issue itself is not necessarily the increased hematocrit and "thick" blood but instead lack of proper hydration. At the time the understanding of micro nutrients especially sodium what nominal. Sodium was going to give you a heart attack and pure water alone supplies hydration. They didn't understand sodium is processed extremely quickly not only through perspiration but also muscular activation. Replacing water without additional sodium merely compounds the affect.

With EPO you have to maintain hydration. True form proper hydration. Fluid intake + sodium intake both need to increase by a factor of 2 then 3 I have found for me personally. Increased sodium along with increased water intake = increased blood volume = you don't get "thick" blood.

Low dosages even 500IU per day was like oh wow, there you are. Its' impact on long slow steady state cardio I found was nominal but on sprints and lactate work in the gym. Oh boy.

Ok here we go

My log

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/performance-macrophase-hyrox-hong-kong-muay-thai-world-championships-speed-camp.175852/

Prepping for events
Start thinking mesocycles broken down into macrocycles and microcycles with your training. Each year I will identify two athletic endeavors in which I want to partake in that are separated by approximately 6 months. It then breaks down into the following months.
Macrocycle 1 - Months 1 to 3 - General athletic preparedness + wintering. All around fitness, extremely high volume, higher AAS dosages, if I need to take a day because I feel ground down I will, etc.
Micro cycle 1+2 these are 1-2 week blocks at the end of month 2+3 usually followed by a deload week. These are weeks of high volume + peak performance.
Macrocycle 2 - Months 3-5 - Ahletic endeavors not directly related to the event which I want to compete in are dropped. IE a muay thai fight, I will drop swimming, basketball pick up games, etc. This volume is then replaced with sport specific volume. Training in the gym becomes specialized towards the event.
Micro Cycle 1+2 - Strategically placed weeks schedule dependent for absolute peak performance. Everything outside of the event itself is dropped. This allows me to asses my bodies ability to operate at peak efficiency while not remaining "recent" in the gym. This tells me if I can drop gym sessions 1 week out, 3 days out or even 10 days out of my fight to maximize CNS reset.
Macrocycle 3 - Month 6 - Fight camp only, twice per week gym sessions until usually 1 week from the event.

One of Phil's best videos

100% watch this video - His pairing energy systems with the appropriate training is a big breakthrough in the performance side. The "interference" affect is a very real thing. IE I paid long slow steady run days with general athletic movement volume days at non maximal effort and low intensity muay thai days.

Sprint days are max effort squat days and hard sparring days.

Fully priming a singular energy system in a day allows for maximal adaptation. Also coming to the realization that your fitness is going to ebb and flow during this endeavor. I know when I start prepping for an event my size, strength, etc is going to decline. Hell I am usually going to get a little bit fat but it is what it is.

@NEMSZ This should be helpful https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/some-notes-on-performance.175952/

@lycan venom May I inquire as to what your sporting background is?

This post is not to argue or come off rude in the absolute slightest but as you mentioned foster conversation.

• I do utilize winstrol for performance purpose and sincerely love the compound. That being said when I have an injury or a joint becomes aggravated I will drop it and move to anavar. In all sincerity it does have an affinity for exacerbating pain from injuries or inflamation. I have some bicep tendon issues from a Mumford surgery years ago. The second it flairs up and if I am running Winstrol I have to take a week off any type of plyometric upper body work. If running anavar it purely takes 2-3 days.
• Masteron - I frequently run masteron for assistance with recovery at 100-200mg per week. Any more has inverse affects with micro nutrient partitioning and the ability to hold onto sodium. Key thing here is that bodybuilding and performance based metrics require completely different inputs for vary different outputs. An athlete running a bodybuilding cycle would be equivalent to a fat kid thats never stepped into a gym before.
• Dbol - Anadrol (if the athlete was bulking) no athletes "bulk" at least not serious ones. There is a direct correlation with increased size and a host of performance mitigating affects. I sit off season at 225ish around 9%, my size drastically hinders my ability to perform. On topic with these compounds, compounds that aromatize heavily have an incredibly profound impact on VO2 max and RHR. If I run more than 200mg of test for instance my mile time goes from the high 5 min mark to mid six minute mark and my perceived effort is substantially higher. The increase to RHR also inversely affects HRV (some may disagree on this but it is the best metric in which I have found) decrease the ability of the CNS to adapt.

Heavily aromatizing compounds have zero place in sport whatsoever.

Pulsatile Utilization of Oral Compounds - Max Pushup/Max Pull Up, all numbers taken with 2 full days of rest

Compound Ran	Push Ups	Pull Ups
TRT 200 Test	74	18
50 Anavar	82	21
50 Anavar + 50 Winstrol	97	23
50 Anavar + 50 Tbol	84	21
50MG Dbol	66	16

Anabolics and Recovery – For bodybuilding the adage of P for plenty has been around for a while which has translated to performance sports however has a negative correlation.

Average of 10 Days Taken Midpoint for Each

Compound Ran​	RHR​	HRV​
TRT 200 Test​	38​	165​
100 Test + 600 Primo​	45​	140​
200 Test + 200 Nandro​	52​	118​
200 Test + 200 Nandro + 2IU HGH​	55​	112​
200 Test + 100 Nandro + 4IU HGH​	58​	106​
200 Test + 100 Nandro + 10IU HGH​	62​	74​

Hey brother, thanks for the replies, had a long couple of days with work so just now able to get back to this…

So to the EPO post;

Maybe it’s the dogma/stigma it has but it scares the shit out of me though I have heard of some high level guys taking it.. Shit, TJ Dillshaw got popped with it and he was an unstoppable animal for quite a run..

As for hydration, my gym has no AC and in the Miami 100+ degree heat and 80%+ humidity, it’s ruthless. I’m drenched in sweat with just the warm ups, when we go live, forget about it, looks like you threw buckets of water on the mats…

But I do bring ice cold 64oz water mixed with LMNT electrolytes (1g sodium, 200mg potassium, 60mg Magnesium) and some Gatorade powder, so probably around 60g carbs, 500mg sodium and 150mg potassium with that as well. I drink the whole thing while I’m in the gym, or just about, throughout the day I drink about 1.5 gallons of water w/ electrolytes…

Not sure if that’s enough, but again, I’m scared as fuuuuuck of EPO lol

As for the programming; I’ve been researching more and looking into everything you’ve shown me little by little, I’m still “injured” with my shoulders and elbows so only doing drills this week and very light rolling, no weights or anything until I feel 100% again..

Phil and Dane have actually done some collab work and know each other, so they have a lot of the same principals of what you’re describing..

I’m going to get one of the programs and run it by you and see what you think of it, see if anything needs to be tweaked in your opinion.. I absolutely suck at, and lack the time to thoroughly piece together an entire program for myself lol I have my mind in too many places as it is..

As for the PEDs/Anabolics side and the log you ran on the performance parameters you have;

Sooooo my TRT doc prescribed me 100mg per week of Deca… Should be coming in soon…

What’s your opinion on running;

200mg Test
100mg Deca
3-4iu GH

Would I still see joint/tendon relief/benefits at 50mg Deca?

How do you see Deca effecting Cardio output, if at all??

My goal is to be as explosive, strong and mobile as I can be, while keeping a relentless pace…

Also, someone said small amounts of Insulin after training sessions for recovery?? What’s your opinion and experience with that??

Thanks again!

 

[heroish]

Hey brother, thanks for the replies, had a long couple of days with work so just now able to get back to this…

So to the EPO post;

Maybe it’s the dogma/stigma it has but it scares the shit out of me though I have heard of some high level guys taking it.. Shit, TJ Dillshaw got popped with it and he was an unstoppable animal for quite a run..

As for hydration, my gym has no AC and in the Miami 100+ degree heat and 80%+ humidity, it’s ruthless. I’m drenched in sweat with just the warm ups, when we go live, forget about it, looks like you threw buckets of water on the mats…

But I do bring ice cold 64oz water mixed with LMNT electrolytes (1g sodium, 200mg potassium, 60mg Magnesium) and some Gatorade powder, so probably around 60g carbs, 500mg sodium and 150mg potassium with that as well. I drink the whole thing while I’m in the gym, or just about, throughout the day I drink about 1.5 gallons of water w/ electrolytes…

Not sure if that’s enough, but again, I’m scared as fuuuuuck of EPO lol

As for the programming; I’ve been researching more and looking into everything you’ve shown me little by little, I’m still “injured” with my shoulders and elbows so only doing drills this week and very light rolling, no weights or anything until I feel 100% again..

Phil and Dane have actually done some collab work and know each other, so they have a lot of the same principals of what you’re describing..

I’m going to get one of the programs and run it by you and see what you think of it, see if anything needs to be tweaked in your opinion.. I absolutely suck at, and lack the time to thoroughly piece together an entire program for myself lol I have my mind in too many places as it is..

As for the PEDs/Anabolics side and the log you ran on the performance parameters you have;

Sooooo my TRT doc prescribed me 100mg per week of Deca… Should be coming in soon…

What’s your opinion on running;

200mg Test
100mg Deca
3-4iu GH

Would I still see joint/tendon relief/benefits at 50mg Deca?

How do you see Deca effecting Cardio output, if at all??

My goal is to be as explosive, strong and mobile as I can be, while keeping a relentless pace…

Also, someone said small amounts of Insulin after training sessions for recovery?? What’s your opinion and experience with that??

Thanks again!

It was me. I would take the GH and insulin together post workout. It helps a lot with recovery and is synergistic.

No need to be a hero. 4IU is a low dose for the majority especially if followed by a meal with 40+ grams of carbs (10 grams per IU minimum).

The synergistic impact of both is very high on recovery. I think it would be more impactful than deca and almost anything else you could add which isn’t very high dose anabolics.

Would probably just started with test, gh + slin.

Then looked at BPC / TB500. These peptides help greatly with preventing and healing from issues.

Maybe after all of that try deca. Don’t do too much at once.

 

[heroish]

You’re going to get a lot of confusing / conflicting advice. Take it in steps.

Also, have you had frequent blood work and you are sure estrogen is in a good place?

 

[goback2013]

It was me. I would take the GH and insulin together post workout. It helps a lot with recovery and is synergistic.

No need to be a hero. 4IU is a low dose for the majority especially if followed by a meal with 40+ grams of carbs (10 grams per IU minimum).

The synergistic impact of both is very high on recovery. I think it would be more impactful than deca and almost anything else you could add which isn’t very high dose anabolics.

Would probably just started with test, gh + slin.

Then looked at BPC / TB500. These peptides help greatly with preventing and healing from issues.

Maybe after all of that try deca. Don’t do too much at once.

Did you see any fat gain or bloat with this post workout dosing ?
I'm finally at a place where my skin is thin around my stomach. So I'm not trying to regress. But I am interested in this recovery protocol.
It's not so much my body that feels worn. It's more the CNS. After a few days I'll feel sluggish and experience a bit of brain fog.

 

[mass4all]

I wonder what Gordon Ryan took

 

[iron lifter]

Low dose test 100-200mg, 100-150 deca or ideally, 200-250 EQ...EQ for obvious performance benefits. As said above, tb500 and bpc will be your best friend and GH if possible.

Cardiobolic from AminoAsylum is injectable SR9 and GW.... It completely blows away the normal oral GW.

I currently use low dose test and cardiobolic as any anabolic I touch I get massively pumped which is a problem lol

is the oil injected daily? is it easy to use slin needles?

 

[Big Dave Smith]

I wonder what Gordon Ryan took

Judging by how 99% of the elite guys train, they’re borderline retarded and very behind in their knowledge base.

Nicky Rod trains like a moron.
Gordon’s is worse, if that’s imaginable.

Dante Leon is the one guy who found a “Danaher”, but for lifting. He’s a Westside guy.

Most of them are either using drugs improperly as well.

Once they figure out their training, that’ll be a new level to the sport.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

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[goback2013]

Low dose test 100-200mg, 100-150 deca or ideally, 200-250 EQ...EQ for obvious performance benefits. As said above, tb500 and bpc will be your best friend and GH if possible.

Cardiobolic from AminoAsylum is injectable SR9 and GW.... It completely blows away the normal oral GW.

I currently use low dose test and cardiobolic as any anabolic I touch I get massively pumped which is a problem lol

re: Cardiobolic from AminoAsylum

is amino asylum a reputable/trusted company ? i'd brew 'cardiobolic' myself, but dont have immediate access to raws.
so if you feel like aminoasylum is still trusted, ill pick up a bottle.

 

[headtrainer]

So I know this is a bodybuilding forum, but figured since it was talked about a couple weeks ago, some of you might be able to help me out on my grappling/BJJ journey..


Training;

BJJ/Wrestling 7-9x per week, Monday-Friday.. Some days are once a day, some are 2-3x a day.. 1-1.5hr sessions, that includes warm ups, drills and rolling/grappling with some hard grappling sessions pretty much every day.. Friday is the longest hard grappling session being a “competition day” so it’s 1-1.5hrs of balls to the wall wrestling, grappling, BJJ the entire time.. Obviously we take breaks to chill between rounds but it’s a very high paced day..

Also going to be doing some programming by Dane Miller, he’s worked with a lot of Olympic and NCAA Wrestlers, national and world champion level guys..

A lot of his programming is explosive movements; box jumps of all kinds, with weight, single leg, from different angles etc, snatches, push presses, jerks, squats, med ball slams, sprints, TABATA Sprints on air bike etc…

Goals;

Given the amount of training and high intensity explosive movements, my main priorities are

Explosiveness
Strength
Cardio
Recovery
Joint/ligament/tendon strength and recovery
Mobility

Current Issues/Concerns;

I feel like my recovery is seriously lacking, I have increased intensity and gotten more wrestling focused, considering that BJJ comps are attracting a lot more high level wrestlers, so I’m trying to match that same approach..

Also my style is a lot more aggressive in that sense, I like the wrestling, explosive take downs etc.. That “butt scooting” to your opponents and dropping to the ground to pull guard is boring to me, and to majority of people and as I said, high level wrestlers are coming into the sport and dominating..

My joints, specifically my elbows and shoulders are extremely sore and in extreme pain after only a couple minutes of grappling/wrestling.. This started happening about 2 weeks ago as I ramped up intensity and training.. Literally the pain in my elbows and shoulders is about 8/10 and afterwards my water jug might as well be a 100lb dumbbell. I can barely pick it up, can barely do a push up, and it takes about 1-2 hours after completely relaxing for the pain so subside, but upon any force or strength the pain returns pretty evenly to what I’m doing.. If I’m lifting something heavy for work, it’ll only bother me a bit as I do the lifting and goes away.. If I go to wrestle for a couple rounds, the pain kicks in the first 1-2 minutes and gets extremely uncomfortable and painful the entire time and takes even longer to subside..

Something to heal, and recover my joints/ligaments/tendons would be amazing as I don’t know what’s fully going on in there but I doubt anything is torn/broken..

Current PEDs;

Test Cyp 200mg per week
HGH 3iu ED (started again yesterday after a couple weeks off)…



Any help is greatly appreciated;

@Performance Based i know you have experience with performance based athletes and @Big Dave Smith i know you’re a black belt and have some experience here so hope you guys can chime in too..

Thanks..

EPO, test, turanibol or anavar, and GH.

 

[cmryan]

Low dose test 100-200mg, 100-150 deca or ideally, 200-250 EQ...EQ for obvious performance benefits. As said above, tb500 and bpc will be your best friend and GH if possible.

Cardiobolic from AminoAsylum is injectable SR9 and GW.... It completely blows away the normal oral GW.

Do you use cardiobolic dialy, rarely or just as a general pre-training tool? What kind of dose would you suggest for guys in the 200-210 range? Or is the dose irrespective of weight?

I currently use low dose test and cardiobolic as any anabolic I touch I get massively pumped which is a problem lol

Even EQ or something like masteron has this effect on you?

 

[stackdizzy]

Tren is really the only thing I wouldn't take as it seems to have an effect on cardio! Hit and miss it seems. Some people don't like certain compounds some love em. Kinda like BB you just have to figure out what works for you. Some guys like to train with a.little more water on em and then tighten up.for a comp...some don't...some don't care either way. Ive trained with world champion jitz guys and several UFC guys you'd know and I have never heard of anyone using epo.....not saying they don't thougn....or that it wouldn't be a good idea.

 

[NEMSZ]

Victor Conte prescribed insulin and GH to Tim Montgomery and most of his athletes. It’s definitely an overlooked drug.

Just saw the “Untold Hall of Shame” doc on Netflix where they talk about that, super interesting, and made me remember this thread and what @heroish said so I’m back for more lol

 

[NEMSZ]

It was me. I would take the GH and insulin together post workout. It helps a lot with recovery and is synergistic.

No need to be a hero. 4IU is a low dose for the majority especially if followed by a meal with 40+ grams of carbs (10 grams per IU minimum).

The synergistic impact of both is very high on recovery. I think it would be more impactful than deca and almost anything else you could add which isn’t very high dose anabolics.

Would probably just started with test, gh + slin.

Then looked at BPC / TB500. These peptides help greatly with preventing and healing from issues.

Maybe after all of that try deca. Don’t do too much at once.

Sorry getting back to you late, but I had this in the back of my mind and then as I said above, I just saw the Doc on Netflix about doping in sports and how Tim Montgomery was on insulin and GH to break the 100m world record etc, made me jump back in here lol..

So here’s my thing; maybe we can go into more detail…

I’ll be doing a Wrestling “pre season” Strength/conditioning routine for the next 12-14 weeks along side my BJJ.. It’ll be done 4x per week in the mornings on Mon/Wed/Friday/Saturday, basically a lower body/upper body split with strength days and explosive days..

BJJ will be consistently Mon-Friday at 6pm and Tuesday/Thursday mornings, so 7 sessions per week total; sometimes the team gets together on Saturdays to roll for a bit too, but it’s not super consistent..

I always take my GH first thing in the morning..

Experimenting with this insulin protocol, what type of insulin would you recommend??

And would you switch the GH to post strength/conditioning workout with insulin or would you do the GH/Insulin post BJJ at the end of the day??

My goal right now is to recover as optimally as possible, build some strength and gain conditioning (im getting smashed by some guys 20-30lbs lighter than me, their strength is unbelievable at times) and then after the programming take some reload time, then hit a power/explosiveness programming (Thanks to @Performance Based for that) for 5 weeks and then evaluate where I’m at on the mats in terms of competing.. Decided that this year won’t be optimal for me, I really want to work on myself overall, so I’d say probably another 5-6 months and see where I am..

As for the TB/BPC, soo my doc was willing to provide me with either the peps or Deca, nothing is torn or broken at the moment.. The only thing was for me to run the peps at the dosage I need for 4-6 weeks would’ve been like 5x the price of 20 weeks worth of Deca @ 100mg per week… And from what I’ve read, some love the peps and some have nothing to write home about it (it could very well be the source too).. Everyone who uses Deca for joint/tendon/lig support seems to love it, so I decided to experiment with that first and evaluate as I go along but I’ll be using a slightly smaller dose of 50-70mg per week..

Thanks for taking the time; sorry for the long read too