Help with PEDs for grappling

[heroish]

Maybe a slight change to my advice before.

Humulin-r is the safest type of insulin you can use and hard to go wrong.

You need to spend some time reading up and researching firstly.

If straight to protocol, I would try two things and see what suits you best. Also, depending on training time / type of training.

1. 4-5iu slim with breakfast and 4-5iu post workout taken with GH.

2. 4-5iu 30-45 mins pre workout with GH

I personally do a lot of pre workout to keep weight down.

I would do (2) with weights but maybe with sparring stick to (1) post workout for saftey.

Carbs 10g per iu but spaced out. Keep most of them peri workout e.g. 50g carbs in a shake with some bcaa, sip slowly during the workout or from post shot but most during workout. The have a carb + protein meal post workout.

Otherwise, if post workout - take with post work out meal.

Start with 2-3iu and go up. You don’t need more than 5. More is not better in this situation.

 

[heroish]

Just look at some of the sponsors for peptides.

Why not just take the Deca at 100mg?

 

[heroish]

Maybe start a journal or post a full diet and workout split during whole week.

Easier to advise

 

[NEMSZ]

Maybe a slight change to my advice before.

Humulin-r is the safest type of insulin you can use and hard to go wrong.

You need to spend some time reading up and researching firstly.

If straight to protocol, I would try two things and see what suits you best. Also, depending on training time / type of training.

1. 4-5iu slim with breakfast and 4-5iu post workout taken with GH.

2. 4-5iu 30-45 mins pre workout with GH

I personally do a lot of pre workout to keep weight down.

I would do (2) with weights but maybe with sparring stick to (1) post workout for saftey.

Carbs 10g per iu but spaced out. Keep most of them peri workout e.g. 50g carbs in a shake with some bcaa, sip slowly during the workout or from post shot but most during workout. The have a carb + protein meal post workout.

Otherwise, if post workout - take with post work out meal.

Start with 2-3iu and go up. You don’t need more than 5. More is not better in this situation.

Yea I’m definitely going to do my research, never touched slin before but it intrigues me..

Is there a time frame of when to take post workout?? I live about 30 min from the gym, I don’t want to be pinning in a bathroom or parking lot etc.. Can I wait to get home and pin the slin and eat post workout meal?

Think I’ll try it post strength/conditioning and if I feel I need it a couple iu post BJJ/Wrestling..

Just look at some of the sponsors for peptides.

Why not just take the Deca at 100mg?

With all the hit and miss sponsors over the years, I don’t trust any of them except where I get my GH since he’s had consistency over almost 15 years..

I’m sure there are some great ones with great gear and peps etc, but I’d rather not experiment with UGL when I have access to pharmaceutical grade AAS/Peps etc and I have someone I can hold accountable if anything happens or doesn’t work etc.

As for the Deca; I’ve read and heard that 50mg is great for recovery/joint health etc, don’t want to use more than I have to for what I need, I can always go up if I need to..

 

[heroish]

30 mins after is fine. Def try with weights first and not bjj.

I think for weights though, you might be better shooting 30-45 minutes pre workout if you can. The recovery will be better this way - but you will still notice it post workout.

 

[goback2013]

30 mins after is fine. Def try with weights first and not bjj.

I think for weights though, you might be better shooting 30-45 minutes pre workout if you can. The recovery will be better this way - but you will still notice it post workout.

What's the time(half life) difference between insulin-r and say lantus ? Is one preferred over the other ?

 

[dj]

I used to be part of a forum that had an endurance section that had some high level people that participated.

General consensus was;

~150mg test
2-3iu GH
EPO
Insulin PWO

Like others have said, androgens can effect cardio and cause debilitating pumps, but it can also be very individualistic. Some people could use Anavar or t-bol without issues, while other got pumps from them. Also this was before the SARMS hit the market so I'm not sure of the state of those.

EPO is not that bad if you have respect for it. I ran it for probably 4 years with zero issues, but you have monitor your hemocrit levels and adjust dosage if need be. This can be done with a cheap home crit spinner.

 

[NEMSZ]

I used to be part of a forum that had an endurance section that had some high level people that participated.

General consensus was;

~150mg test
2-3iu GH
EPO
Insulin PWO

Like others have said, androgens can effect cardio and cause debilitating pumps, but it can also be very individualistic. Some people could use Anavar or t-bol without issues, while other got pumps from them. Also this was before the SARMS hit the market so I'm not sure of the state of those.

EPO is not that bad if you have respect for it. I ran it for probably 4 years with zero issues, but you have monitor your hemocrit levels and adjust dosage if need be. This can be done with a cheap home crit spinner.

Thanks for the reply..

When you say “insulin PWO” do you mean Pre Workout or Post Workout? Lol the “P” can go either way…

And what was the protocol for the EPO you were doing?

 

[NEMSZ]

30 mins after is fine. Def try with weights first and not bjj.

I think for weights though, you might be better shooting 30-45 minutes pre workout if you can. The recovery will be better this way - but you will still notice it post workout.

Thanks, I’ll look into trying both ways… I’m not a big eater in the mornings so would hate to feel pressure to eat a certain amount experimenting with slin pre morning workout lol..

 

[275bills]

What's the time(half life) difference between insulin-r and say lantus ? Is one preferred over the other ?

Big difference

 

[dj]

Thanks for the reply..

When you say “insulin PWO” do you mean Pre Workout or Post Workout? Lol the “P” can go either way…

And what was the protocol for the EPO you were doing?

Post

 

[BigNJ]

So I know this is a bodybuilding forum, but figured since it was talked about a couple weeks ago, some of you might be able to help me out on my grappling/BJJ journey..


Training;

BJJ/Wrestling 7-9x per week, Monday-Friday.. Some days are once a day, some are 2-3x a day.. 1-1.5hr sessions, that includes warm ups, drills and rolling/grappling with some hard grappling sessions pretty much every day.. Friday is the longest hard grappling session being a “competition day” so it’s 1-1.5hrs of balls to the wall wrestling, grappling, BJJ the entire time.. Obviously we take breaks to chill between rounds but it’s a very high paced day..

Also going to be doing some programming by Dane Miller, he’s worked with a lot of Olympic and NCAA Wrestlers, national and world champion level guys..

A lot of his programming is explosive movements; box jumps of all kinds, with weight, single leg, from different angles etc, snatches, push presses, jerks, squats, med ball slams, sprints, TABATA Sprints on air bike etc…

Goals;

Given the amount of training and high intensity explosive movements, my main priorities are

Explosiveness
Strength
Cardio
Recovery
Joint/ligament/tendon strength and recovery
Mobility

Current Issues/Concerns;

I feel like my recovery is seriously lacking, I have increased intensity and gotten more wrestling focused, considering that BJJ comps are attracting a lot more high level wrestlers, so I’m trying to match that same approach..

Also my style is a lot more aggressive in that sense, I like the wrestling, explosive take downs etc.. That “butt scooting” to your opponents and dropping to the ground to pull guard is boring to me, and to majority of people and as I said, high level wrestlers are coming into the sport and dominating..

My joints, specifically my elbows and shoulders are extremely sore and in extreme pain after only a couple minutes of grappling/wrestling.. This started happening about 2 weeks ago as I ramped up intensity and training.. Literally the pain in my elbows and shoulders is about 8/10 and afterwards my water jug might as well be a 100lb dumbbell. I can barely pick it up, can barely do a push up, and it takes about 1-2 hours after completely relaxing for the pain so subside, but upon any force or strength the pain returns pretty evenly to what I’m doing.. If I’m lifting something heavy for work, it’ll only bother me a bit as I do the lifting and goes away.. If I go to wrestle for a couple rounds, the pain kicks in the first 1-2 minutes and gets extremely uncomfortable and painful the entire time and takes even longer to subside..

Something to heal, and recover my joints/ligaments/tendons would be amazing as I don’t know what’s fully going on in there but I doubt anything is torn/broken..

Current PEDs;

Test Cyp 200mg per week
HGH 3iu ED (started again yesterday after a couple weeks off)…



Any help is greatly appreciated;

@Performance Based i know you have experience with performance based athletes and @Big Dave Smith i know you’re a black belt and have some experience here so hope you guys can chime in too..

Thanks..

The amount of junk posts in this topic is unbelievable.

The guy is a grappler/JJ so he's a martial artist.

His goals:

Explosiveness
Strength
Cardio
Recovery
Joint/ligament/tendon strength and recovery
Mobility

Halotestin gir explosiveness and strength.
Cardio, just do your fuckin cardio. Why are you even thinking about EPO?

Recovery? How about proper nutrition? Carbs and protein? Do you have a nutritionist that designs your meals or do you do it yourself?

Joint/ligament/tendon strength and recovery
Mobility? You guys stretch all day long.

Look into sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy might want to include it in your training regimen
How about focusing on Parallel/ In series with some sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy training,?

If your joints are bad, Nandrolone 50 to 100 mg per week nothing more.

GH? I don't see how that might help you in MMA.

Your nutrition, training and stretching should be helping you with your goals. Add a little bit of halotestin 10 mg per day , 50 to 100 mg Nandrolone per week for the extra edge.

 

[NEMSZ]

The amount of junk posts in this topic is unbelievable.

The guy is a grappler/JJ so he's a martial artist.

His goals:

Explosiveness
Strength
Cardio
Recovery
Joint/ligament/tendon strength and recovery
Mobility

Halotestin gir explosiveness and strength.
Cardio, just do your fuckin cardio. Why are you even thinking about EPO?

Recovery? How about proper nutrition? Carbs and protein? Do you have a nutritionist that designs your meals or do you do it yourself?

Joint/ligament/tendon strength and recovery
Mobility? You guys stretch all day long.

Look into sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy might want to include it in your training regimen
How about focusing on Parallel/ In series with some sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy training,?

If your joints are bad, Nandrolone 50 to 100 mg per week nothing more.

GH? I don't see how that might help you in MMA.

Your nutrition, training and stretching should be helping you with your goals. Add a little bit of halotestin 10 mg per day , 50 to 100 mg Nandrolone per week for the extra edge.

I appreciate your response bro.. Quick question though, and I don’t mean to sound condescending at all, but what’s your experience with Wrestling/BJJ??

I ask because some of your answers are so nonchalant like “yea bro, just eat right and do some cardio and you’re good to go ”

If only it was that easy..

When you’re training in this sport (some would say wrestling is the absolute most brutal training of any sport in the world), and especially training to compete, it’s balls to the wall..

Have you ever had the experience of grown men, some of them way stronger than you, way more skilled than you, way more explosive and that can keep a relentless pace for what seems like eternity, turning you into a pretzel, slamming you, taking you down, choking you, squeezing you etc for hours on end?

I have heard of some people playing with Halo, the only thing is finding a legitimate source… EPO? I didn’t suggest it, a few on here did, and I’ve heard of some high level fighters and grapplers use the stuff, “just doing your cardio” may not cut it when you’re talking about high level competition where there are no time limit, submission only matches.. But I’ve never played with it so I’m still sketched out about it.. I’d take it into consideration depending on how far I’m getting with this endeavor, but I’d agree I don’t think I need it right now..

As for recovery; if only nutrition alone was the answer lol… I don’t have a nutritionist, don’t really need one, it’s kind of standard to have your carbs and protein, some healthy fats but not too much etc.. Most high level guys I’ve talked to about diet, just eat.. Don’t count a thing.. They just make sure to have a good amount of protein and eat heavy carb meals around training..

I’d say I probably have a better structured diet than most of these guys, a lot of calories are burned during this training, add in about 1-1.5 hours 4x per week of strength and conditioning on top of the 10+ hours of wrestling/grappling and it’s A LOT on the body.. That’s a part time job right there.. Most bodybuilders don’t get that many hours of training in 1 month, we’re doing it in 5-6 days, not to mention the type of training is significantly harder on the body..

I eat about 250-300g protein per day;

Protein sources;

Eggs
Grass Fed Beef/Elk/Deer etc
Whey Protein
Pasture Raised Chicken
Snapper
Grouper
Salmon
Protein Oikos Yogurt

Carbs Sources;

Raw Honey
Fruit (mostly bananas and wild berries)
Jasmine Rice
Sometimes Pasta

Fats;

I cook with Ghee, and whatever fats are in the meats, fish or eggs etc.. That’s about it..

I could have better sleep though, I feel like I can probably pull some better recovery from that, some nights I do get in 8-9 hours of good sleep and I feel great the next day, but sometimes Ill get 5 hours, and it does fuck with me..

Yes, we do stretch a lot, admittedly I can probably do better at it.. My whole point on mobility was to not take anything that would hinder my mobility or ability to gain even more mobility.. That’s all..

Isn’t Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy training just another way of saying “high volume” training? Just training for the pump, with lighter weights, less rest etc?? (I could be wrong here)

I’ve never seen any good grapplers train that way as a base.. Sure Nicky Rod and Gordon Ryan can sometimes be seen doing BBing style type workouts, but that’s not always..

I’ll be getting my Deca tomorrow, so let’s see how it helps.. Looking forward to trying it for the first time..

You’ve never heard of GH in MMA/Grappling? Lol C’mon man, it’s in virtually every single sport.. They use it for recovery in every sport but you can’t imagine them using it for recovery in literally the most brutal on the body sport in the world?? Lol

I’m not sure how true it is, as what I’ve been told is coming from 2nd and 3rd party witnesses (I never witnessed it myself) but I’ve heard of some very high level MMA and Grapplers coming out of some very well known gyms even mega dosing GH.. Through the grape vine I’ve heard of some guys pushing north of 15-20iu per day of GH to recover under specific protocols in specific situations…

Yes, my nutrition, training, stretching and rest are helping my goals, I’m sure I can improve in some of those areas, but it also helps to have a little help too, you know …

 

[Black Beard]

The amount of junk posts in this topic is unbelievable.

The guy is a grappler/JJ so he's a martial artist.

His goals:

Explosiveness
Strength
Cardio
Recovery
Joint/ligament/tendon strength and recovery
Mobility

Halotestin gir explosiveness and strength.
Cardio, just do your fuckin cardio. Why are you even thinking about EPO?

Recovery? How about proper nutrition? Carbs and protein? Do you have a nutritionist that designs your meals or do you do it yourself?

Joint/ligament/tendon strength and recovery
Mobility? You guys stretch all day long.

Look into sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy might want to include it in your training regimen
How about focusing on Parallel/ In series with some sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy training,?

If your joints are bad, Nandrolone 50 to 100 mg per week nothing more.

GH? I don't see how that might help you in MMA.

Your nutrition, training and stretching should be helping you with your goals. Add a little bit of halotestin 10 mg per day , 50 to 100 mg Nandrolone per week for the extra edge.

Don't you mean myofibrillar hypertrophy? Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is what you see in body builders. (Lots of muscle size ; relatively low strength). Myofibrillar if i'm not mistaken is the type of muscle that has a high strength to weight ratio which is ideal for combat sports.




HGH is one of the reasons young guys don't get injured as easily and can recover very quickly. You ever see a 18 year old martial artist's versus a 50 year old martial artist's training and recovery? It's worlds apart. HGH production is a huge part of that. 15-27 year old = 3-5 IU HGH per day. Past 30 you are looking at <1.8 IU per day. Recovery and body composition suffer from this drop.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Don't you mean myofibrillar hypertrophy? Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is what you see in body builders. (Lots of muscle size ; relatively low strength). Myofibrillar if i'm not mistaken is the type of muscle that has a high strength to weight ratio which is ideal for combat sports.




HGH is one of the reasons young guys don't get injured as easily and can recover very quickly. You ever see a 18 year old martial artist's versus a 50 year old martial artist's training and recovery? It's worlds apart. HGH production is a huge part of that. 15-27 year old = 3-5 IU HGH per day. Past 30 you are looking at <1.8 IU per day. Recovery and body composition suffer from this drop.

Hypertrophy is both, and must be a combination. Strength is neuromuscular.

If strength was myofibrillar, it would be impossible to stay in the same weight class.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

I appreciate your response bro.. Quick question though, and I don’t mean to sound condescending at all, but what’s your experience with Wrestling/BJJ??

I ask because some of your answers are so nonchalant like “yea bro, just eat right and do some cardio and you’re good to go ”

If only it was that easy..

When you’re training in this sport (some would say wrestling is the absolute most brutal training of any sport in the world), and especially training to compete, it’s balls to the wall..

Have you ever had the experience of grown men, some of them way stronger than you, way more skilled than you, way more explosive and that can keep a relentless pace for what seems like eternity, turning you into a pretzel, slamming you, taking you down, choking you, squeezing you etc for hours on end?

I have heard of some people playing with Halo, the only thing is finding a legitimate source… EPO? I didn’t suggest it, a few on here did, and I’ve heard of some high level fighters and grapplers use the stuff, “just doing your cardio” may not cut it when you’re talking about high level competition where there are no time limit, submission only matches.. But I’ve never played with it so I’m still sketched out about it.. I’d take it into consideration depending on how far I’m getting with this endeavor, but I’d agree I don’t think I need it right now..

As for recovery; if only nutrition alone was the answer lol… I don’t have a nutritionist, don’t really need one, it’s kind of standard to have your carbs and protein, some healthy fats but not too much etc.. Most high level guys I’ve talked to about diet, just eat.. Don’t count a thing.. They just make sure to have a good amount of protein and eat heavy carb meals around training..

I’d say I probably have a better structured diet than most of these guys, a lot of calories are burned during this training, add in about 1-1.5 hours 4x per week of strength and conditioning on top of the 10+ hours of wrestling/grappling and it’s A LOT on the body.. That’s a part time job right there.. Most bodybuilders don’t get that many hours of training in 1 month, we’re doing it in 5-6 days, not to mention the type of training is significantly harder on the body..

I eat about 250-300g protein per day;

Protein sources;

Eggs
Grass Fed Beef/Elk/Deer etc
Whey Protein
Pasture Raised Chicken
Snapper
Grouper
Salmon
Protein Oikos Yogurt

Carbs Sources;

Raw Honey
Fruit (mostly bananas and wild berries)
Jasmine Rice
Sometimes Pasta

Fats;

I cook with Ghee, and whatever fats are in the meats, fish or eggs etc.. That’s about it..

I could have better sleep though, I feel like I can probably pull some better recovery from that, some nights I do get in 8-9 hours of good sleep and I feel great the next day, but sometimes Ill get 5 hours, and it does fuck with me..

Yes, we do stretch a lot, admittedly I can probably do better at it.. My whole point on mobility was to not take anything that would hinder my mobility or ability to gain even more mobility.. That’s all..

Isn’t Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy training just another way of saying “high volume” training? Just training for the pump, with lighter weights, less rest etc?? (I could be wrong here)

I’ve never seen any good grapplers train that way as a base.. Sure Nicky Rod and Gordon Ryan can sometimes be seen doing BBing style type workouts, but that’s not always..

I’ll be getting my Deca tomorrow, so let’s see how it helps.. Looking forward to trying it for the first time..

You’ve never heard of GH in MMA/Grappling? Lol C’mon man, it’s in virtually every single sport.. They use it for recovery in every sport but you can’t imagine them using it for recovery in literally the most brutal on the body sport in the world?? Lol

I’m not sure how true it is, as what I’ve been told is coming from 2nd and 3rd party witnesses (I never witnessed it myself) but I’ve heard of some very high level MMA and Grapplers coming out of some very well known gyms even mega dosing GH.. Through the grape vine I’ve heard of some guys pushing north of 15-20iu per day of GH to recover under specific protocols in specific situations…

Yes, my nutrition, training, stretching and rest are helping my goals, I’m sure I can improve in some of those areas, but it also helps to have a little help too, you know …

None of the guys in this area are using Halotestin.

You don’t grapple angry.

The older guys definitely like GH, but not even close to bodybuilding doses.

I’m fairly certain 80% of opinions are made up on this board.

 

[Black Beard]

Hypertrophy is both, and must be a combination. Strength is neuromuscular.

If strength was myofibrillar, it would be impossible to stay in the same weight class.

Exactly, the way i understand it is going for lower reps/explosive = more CNS adaptation and a higher ratio of myofibrillary to sarcoplasmic muscular hypertrophy = more strength / less weight = Better pound for pound performance. Sarcoplasm being more fluid/nitrogen/glycogen increase versus myofibrillar ; dense, hard muscle.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Exactly, the way i understand it is going for lower reps/explosive = more CNS adaptation and a higher ratio of myofibrillary to sarcoplasmic muscular hypertrophy = more strength / less weight = Better pound for pound performance. Sarcoplasm being more fluid/nitrogen/glycogen increase versus myofibrillar ; dense, hard muscle.

Most hypertrophy comes from myofibrillar growth, with mass being aided by sarcoplasmic fluid retention that can be exaggerated by drugs. That’s why when users stop their cycle, cell volumization decreases much more than a natty who takes a few weeks off. The number of reps and the level of intensity will bias certain fiber types. Even different body parts have different functions which dictate the distribution of fiber types (biceps vs hamstrings).

Explosivity must come from fast movements, it’s not directly correlated to being strong.

“Pure strength” comes from neuromuscularly adapting existing tissue and rewiring it to be more efficient with heavier loads.

I rememberLouie Simmons and another power lifter were talking about two guys can have the same max deadlift. Guy 1 can lift 600lbs from A to B at (x) speed. Guy 2 can lift the bar from A to B at (2x) speed… but both would fail at 610lbs. The difference being that the slower lifter trained his lift slow and the faster lifter was focusing on both the weight AND bar speed.

Plyometrics are similar in that you’re not directly trying to work for hypertrophy, you’re trying to work on how fast the existing muscles contract.

All of the above do, to a degree, positively impact hypertrophy, but to widely varying degrees of success.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Exactly, the way i understand it is going for lower reps/explosive = more CNS adaptation and a higher ratio of myofibrillary to sarcoplasmic muscular hypertrophy = more strength / less weight = Better pound for pound performance. Sarcoplasm being more fluid/nitrogen/glycogen increase versus myofibrillar ; dense, hard muscle.

Most hypertrophy comes from myofibrillar growth, with mass being aided by sarcoplasmic fluid retention that can be exaggerated by drugs. That’s why when users stop their cycle, cell volumization decreases much more than a natty who takes a few weeks off. The number of reps and the level of intensity will bias certain fiber types. Even different body parts have different functions which dictate the distribution of fiber types (biceps vs hamstrings).

Explosivity

 

[fisther69]

Heading to bed for the night - get back to you in the morning but I think I’ve got it figured out for you.

If for whatever reason you can’t sleep tonight hop onto YouTube and search for Phil Daru

I’ve been working with some of his training ideals and modalities and it’s really paid dividends

I worked with phil for a few months when I was in a unit..I felt great..but I found it really hard for me to keep up the type of work on my own.

I got to work with Matt wenning too..I didn’t fell as good but still a huge improvement and I’m more able to make myself stick with his routine for my specific shit show of a body