How many politicians juice?Fucking hypocrits

[BALDNAZI]

I would love to know how many of these cocksuckers are on HRT.I would bet that quite a few are.They have access to the best healthcare and doctors on our fucking tax dollars.Is it that hard to imagine that alot of these old fucks are taking testosterone shots once a week administered by their doctors? Not to mention the GH as well. I have no doubts that HRT is as commonplace as Viagra for these old boys.It allows them to better chase around their female interns and campaign volunteers.

Performance enhancing drugs is what they want to eliminate from sports.Lets see how well these congress rats perform without their juice.Im willing to bet that these assholes have no idea that when the doctor gives them their weekly cc of pure American made DepoTest,that they are on steroids themselves.Our tax dollars at work,fucking rat motherfuckers.

Just leave us the fuck alone.

 

[alpha-longhorn]

question though: is there HRT more than 200mg per week?

 

[MightyJohn]

yeah

BN...I have wondered about the same thing for a while now

 

[gooey]

could be

question though: is there HRT more than 200mg per week?

depends on each peson, and how low there normal endogenous levels are. SOme could have a higher level dosage then others. There is a fine line between use and abuse but are these lines drawn for other drugs.
gooey

 

[bigdan]

depends on the DR too. i had a doc that had me on 600mg cyp and 400 mg deca

 

[gooey]

whoa

depends on the DR too. i had a doc that had me on 600mg cyp and 400 mg deca

did u ask for that or did he prescribe that actual dosage for u, never heard of that amount from a doc. I have a client who went on HRT and they would only give him the andro gel or cream not a syringe based HRT. Weird see, all docs are different, weird world
gooey

 

[mark86]

?????

Where do you find these HRT doctors? Are they in the yellow pages? Newspapers? Im assuming they want you to be at least 30?

However, you just get off a cycle and have low low levels then perhaps they would put you on something. I guess you need to find the one that will give it with a syringe not the cream garbage.

 

[Tazzy1]

hey bald... old friend!!

Good to see that the bald one still has the fire.... Welcome back old friend!

As you all may know.. there is an epidemic of obesity and on top of that stupidity. All flamed by the government. The government pays alot of farmers to not grow food.. or the food that they do grow is corn. And what do we get from this corn? High Fructose corn syrup! Look at most food ingredients.. High Fructose corn syrup is in just about everything! We have become cattle! So as our health declines, the medical community and the drug companies stand to make more money... thus the government makes money. The reason why steroids are so demonized is because the government and the American drug companies cannot make any money off a fit American public. Yes... steroids do get abused.. and too much is not good for you. But too much legal cigarettes are not good for you too.. and too much legal alcohol is not good for you either.. but steroid deaths and illnesses are so low in the scale against tobacco and alcohol and other legal "safe" drugs that the FDA and doctors fed us... (Fen-Phen, Vioxx, just to name a few) Its all a scam... and we on the side of real knowledge will lose due to the hype of irresponsible and inaccurate news and government lies...

Another thing.. I have 2 children.. 10 years apart. Both girls. One is 19 the other is 9. I am now seeing girls (my daughter) and her friends that are her age developing earlier than my 19 year old did when she was the same age.. what is doing this? Hormones in our food?

20 years ago.. Autism was discovered in 1 out of 200 infants... now.. its 1 out of 20 infants... ummm excuse me.. would this turn on the siren for me and you if we had the power to try and alleviate this? Or is steroids to blame in this too? Just some points to ponder... Im glad our government and law enforcement is saving us from those evil steroids.. Just found out that Bush approved 18 million dollars for the US law enforcement and DEA to fight against the evil steroid epidemic....

 

[Dad]

HRT

Usually what happens is that someone is feeling fatigued, has erectile problems, reduced testicle size, etc., so the docs do a bunch of tests to measure free and total testosterone, TSH, possibly AM cortisol levels, and others.

Commonly, if serum free and total test is low, the patient gets started on test cyp, usually at 50 mg per week. Then a month or two later, the patient reports how well they FEEL (or don't), and the blood tests are re-done. If 50 mg wasn't enough, then the next jump is usually to 100 mg per week. Then a month or two later, the blood test is done again. Once a patient is at the low end of the normal range for total and free test, virtually no doc will go higher on the prescribed dosages. There are some AIDS/HIV patiens who are on higher dosages - perhaps 200-300 mg per week (infrequently higher), especially if they are showing signs of muscle wasting, but this is a whole different problem from HRT.

It's pretty hard to B.S. the docs because the blood tests show whats going on with hormone levels really well. Almost no doc is going to believe someone with normal or high normal test levels who says his symptoms persist. If that's actually the case, then the problem is unlikely to be test levels, and then the patient is refered to an endocrine specialist for a really thorough work-up.

In the U.S., GH is not used much - if at all - for HRT, as its only approved use is in growth-deficient children. It is used by some cutting-edge folks in AIDS/HIV patients.

 

[Dad]

BTW...

BTW, if yuor test level is far enough below normal to warrant HRT, and the HRT is used to bring you up so you're somewhere in the normal range, this is not going to make much difference as far as muscle building, etc.
Think about it: Yuo've just been brought to the level of an a average, normal individual. How many of them have above average muscle mass as a function of test levels?

Being "on" involves, usually, many times the levels of HRT dosgaes, so you can't really compare the two situations. Being "on" uses what's termed "pharmacologic dosages," where HRT uses "physiologic dosages."

 

[leapfrog]

I would love to know how many of these cocksuckers are on HRT.I would bet that quite a few are.They have access to the best healthcare and doctors on our fucking tax dollars.Is it that hard to imagine that alot of these old fucks are taking testosterone shots once a week administered by their doctors? Not to mention the GH as well. I have no doubts that HRT is as commonplace as Viagra for these old boys.It allows them to better chase around their female interns and campaign volunteers.

Performance enhancing drugs is what they want to eliminate from sports.Lets see how well these congress rats perform without their juice.Im willing to bet that these assholes have no idea that when the doctor gives them their weekly cc of pure American made DepoTest,that they are on steroids themselves.Our tax dollars at work,fucking rat motherfuckers.

Just leave us the fuck alone.

HE'S BACK!!!!!!!!!! the nazi returns.

leap

 

[Starkraven]

BTW, if yuor test level is far enough below normal to warrant HRT, and the HRT is used to bring you up so you're somewhere in the normal range, this is not going to make much difference as far as muscle building, etc.
Think about it: Yuo've just been brought to the level of an a average, normal individual. How many of them have above average muscle mass as a function of test levels?

Being "on" involves, usually, many times the levels of HRT dosgaes, so you can't really compare the two situations. Being "on" uses what's termed "pharmacologic dosages," where HRT uses "physiologic dosages."

hey dad, but even if someone has 100mg test/week for HRT, they can still build a great physique. no enormous gains here but 100mg/week is a pretty high natural test level considering most people produce 4-10mg/day = 70mg/week tops = 100mg/week = 70mg raw test per week.

my question is, how do HRT people who bodybuild take gear and still have to show blood work? or do you not have to show blood work? usually they go up to 400-600mg per week and then when they are done, fall back down to 100mg/week. very convenient although at 22 im not considering any HRT, unless my test levels never return to normal from my last dumb cycle i did.

 

[Starkraven]

Usually what happens is that someone is feeling fatigued, has erectile problems, reduced testicle size, etc., so the docs do a bunch of tests to measure free and total testosterone, TSH, possibly AM cortisol levels, and others.

Commonly, if serum free and total test is low, the patient gets started on test cyp, usually at 50 mg per week. Then a month or two later, the patient reports how well they FEEL (or don't), and the blood tests are re-done. If 50 mg wasn't enough, then the next jump is usually to 100 mg per week. Then a month or two later, the blood test is done again. Once a patient is at the low end of the normal range for total and free test, virtually no doc will go higher on the prescribed dosages. There are some AIDS/HIV patiens who are on higher dosages - perhaps 200-300 mg per week (infrequently higher), especially if they are showing signs of muscle wasting, but this is a whole different problem from HRT.

It's pretty hard to B.S. the docs because the blood tests show whats going on with hormone levels really well. Almost no doc is going to believe someone with normal or high normal test levels who says his symptoms persist. If that's actually the case, then the problem is unlikely to be test levels, and then the patient is refered to an endocrine specialist for a really thorough work-up.

In the U.S., GH is not used much - if at all - for HRT, as its only approved use is in growth-deficient children. It is used by some cutting-edge folks in AIDS/HIV patients.

are you sure they get started on 50mg/week? i have NEVER heard it to be THAT low. i know there are different levels but i didnt think anyone was prescribed less than 100mg/week. if i was on HRT, i sure as shit would not want only 50mg/week, but rather 100mg. and 50mg would not make you fall into the low test range so a doc might leave it at that huh? if thats the case, i would have to resort to taking 1/4cc of 200mg test cyp = 50mg per week to compensate

 

[Dad]

Hi Stark,

Yes, HRT patients do have to have blood tests regularly. In the first few years, it's not uncommon to have blood tests every six months. These assess the changes in total and free test levels, but also ALT and AST, and other liver functions, as well as serum lipid changes.

So, someone who's "on," will have to juggle their AAS dosing schedule so that when it's time for their blood test they have what should be a reasonably normal reading in their serum profiles. This can be done by using faster-acting AAS, and timing the cut-offs so that the compounds clear your system in time. For example, the half-life on test cyp is 8 days, so some calculations can be done to see how long it would theoretically take for drug levels to drop (assumming nothing else you're doing is competiting for the liver enzymes involved in clearing the test, etc, etc,...). BTW, orals are not generally the best answer here as they tend to be hard on the liver, and while your test levels may be about right, your liver function tests may be off target.

As to getting started on 50 mg per week:
This is an acceptable, conservative place to start as it will give you about 7 mg per day average. Virtually all docs will start at the lowest reasonable dose with any med, then adjust from there based upon patient response, blood work results, etc. Whether this allows you to fall into the normal range, even if it's the low end of the normal range, will depend on the individual patient to some degree, but variance is not so wide that one patient might need 200+ mg weekly, while anther does fine on 50 mg.

Now, will you build muscle on a normal level of both free and total test? Sure, but your ability to build muscle depends on more than just test levels, AND it depends on where you are in the normal range. If you're way up at the top of the range, especially with respect to free (unbound) test, then you'll be "ahead of the curve" relative to others with normal-range test levels. Here, people have tried to use thing like Proviron the bind SHBG (a protien that binds test in the blood) so that there is more free test available, even though test levels per se have not changed.

I should mention that this discussion applies to the injectable test HRT, and not the creams, which I can't comment upon at this time. It also assumes an otherwise-healthy individual, and not someone such as an AIDS/HIV patient with muscle wasting problems.

As you can see, this isn't as simple a problem as it looks, and that's why docs do the blood tests, and all the rest of it, because you have to treat the indvidual, and not just blindly follow some chart that says what SHOULD be going on.

Hope this helps, and doesn't just make things more confusing...

 

[Starkraven]

Dad,

thanks for the reply. it was very helpful. so i see it isnt in your control to be at the top range of the normal levels. what determines the different levels for different people? i mean, if 50mg/week works, why go 100mg/week? do some people not respond as well to 50mg/week?

im familiar with proviron freeing up test but do many hrt patients use it or just solely depend on test? or did u mean one on 100mg test/week with 50mg proviron ed will feel better and have better results (muscle-building wise) over a long period of time compared to those without the proviron or with those dosing at only 50mg/week? if i was on hrt, i wouldnt want to be on only 50mg/week, but would the blood tests show that it is enough or do they still go by your symptoms? i mean i can just lie and say my drive is still low and so is energy, etc.

thanks for your help

 

[Starkraven]

btw i noticed you mentioned 50mg = 7mg/day roughly but the test cyp has an ester. 50mg test cyp really = 35mg raw test which is about 5mg/day now. and i read many places men produce from 4-10mg/day. that is very near the low end.

 

[Dad]

Hi again Stark,

Yuo could, over time and due to trial and error, figure out how to keep yourself in the upper range of normal for your free and total test levels. This would probably require serum test levels being mesured every couple of months, and then comparing the results with your dosing schedule since the last blood test. This is basically what happens over time in treating patients, but most docs and patients (and insurance companies!) won't put up with doing blood tests and office visits every couple of months.

Different levels of response can be due to the test levels someone starts with - most HRT patients are below the norm, but not at zero. Other factors can include meds being taken for other conditions which either speed or slow the clearance rate of the test - these are drugs that affect liver enzyme levels. And people vary as to their SHBG levels to some degree. There are probably other more rare factors.

Using Proviron or some other drug to compete for SHBG is not part of standard HRT protocol. How much would using proviron raise free test levels? It would depend on the dosage, and would have to be assessed by measuring serum free test levels. But, now you introduce another source of complication because proviron is also an androgen, so you have androgen sides, plus, as an oral, you have the potential at adversely affect liver function.

Can you B.S. the doc at 50 mg and say you aren't getting symptom relief? Probably, but the doc will use blood tests to try and confirm your claim, and be very suspicious if the two don't match - normal level test, but you say your don't feel different. THe doc will probably be willing to try 100 mg, but be very reluctant to go above that, especially if it's a Family Practice doc, and they'll probably refer you to and endocrinologist if things seem off.

Yuo're correct about the ester factor, but in clinical practice, this factor is generally ignored. Docs view 200 mg/ml as just that and don't generally correct for the ester vs unesterfied difference. If you used that argument to try to convince the doc that your dosing was too low, again, you'd be getting a blood test to see what the serum levels are.

Hope this helps...

 

[Starkraven]

Thank you very much for the reply. I have a much better understanding of HRT and you've answered my questions. At som point in my life, I do plan to be on HRT. I mean, im not going to just let my test levels decrease as i age. I know I am still young but in a couple years I heard that is when it begins to decline. I'm 22 right now but by 30 I think I will be on HRT. I couldn't let my sex drive, energy, feeling of well-being and confidence, muscle mass, and metabolism just dwindle down.

 

[Dad]

Yuo're welcome

Hi Stark,

Glad I was able to be of some small help.
What you might want to do now is get your free and total test levels done. Have them send you the NUMBERS, not just some statement that they're "normal." Then as the years go by you'll have a base for comparison. At 22, you could do this every 3 years or so into your mid-30's or so, and just see if there's any pattern of decline.

Best,
Dad

 

[Starkraven]

Hi Stark,

Glad I was able to be of some small help.
What you might want to do now is get your free and total test levels done. Have them send you the NUMBERS, not just some statement that they're "normal." Then as the years go by you'll have a base for comparison. At 22, you could do this every 3 years or so into your mid-30's or so, and just see if there's any pattern of decline.

Best,
Dad

That would be a good idea although this will have to be AFTER my levels return to normal. I came off a cycle 8 weeks ago and my test levels are still low. i didnt do the clomid or HCG, but i have been on nolvadex for 16 days now and it doesnt seem to help much to restore the test levels. I'm getting on clomid starting tomorrow at 50mg/day for 15 days, usually dont need much although this is the longest hardest cycle ive done (testE/trenE 7 weeks) shut me down pretty hard that my face/neck is bloated too from estrogen (during cycle because my liquidex was bunk/didnt work, and post-cycle from low test levels.) the imbalance in my Test:Estro ratios caused my face/neck to bloat still.

When they do return to normal, or when my libido goes high again and my face/neck bloat disappears and I start to feel normal again (took me 2.5 months once after a 7 week cycle 2 years ago), then ill get some blood work done and see how normal i really am because i never had them tested ever so i have no idea what they were like at 18 or 20 or 22 because i dont have health ins. i live in LA,CA its real expensive to just live here.