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if you could afford just one..IGF or HGH?
- Thread starter saint808
- Start date
I'd have to go with gh. IGF although very tempting is just to new for me. All I keep hearing and reading are positive feedback from users but nothing negative. It just sounds to good to be true. Anyhow, I rather wait untill there's more info available.
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2002
- Messages
- 866
I personally think
that IGF would be the ideal choice if you could afford it. Simply because the gains your getting from GH is do to the release of IGF1. Most of them that is. So why use Gh to get the same effect of IGF1 when you can use the actual drug itself?
Many of the growth promoting effects of GH are due to its ability to release IGF1 from the liver. The conversion ratio of GH to IGF1 varies greatly in different individuals but most external sources of GH convert around 4-6mcg of IGF per one I.U. of GH. IGF-1 acts on several different tissues to enhance growth. Now as for getting more benefits out of it with least side effects I would choose HGH simply because your not gonna get the effects you would get from IGF1 in itself.
IGF1 will attach its self to the lining of the intestine and cause atrophy of the abdomen. Every thing IGF1 touches will grow and you have a lot of receptors on the lining of the large intestine and inner wall of the abdominal well. This is what causes what many people call "Growth Gut". Therefore proper cycling is a must. Well the distended bellies you are seeing from Gh is not from the GH its simply from the release of IGF1 in your intestines. You will also get more bone growth from IGF1 as to the side effects associated with GH alone. Simply cause the level of igf the gh is releasing is lower than that of what you would be injecting if using igf1 itself.
Igf1 is simply the stronger drug in my opinion and many may disagree but if you have the money and can afford it I suggest this is the route for top level competitors and pros. This is not a drug for young athletes to use. This si for those who are willing to take a risk and are competing at a very high level. The side effects of igf1 are ones you need to take in consideration also so keep this in mind. These side effects are the irreversable ones you see in some professional men and woman b/b.
If you want the same effects as GH with higher risk of side effects in less time go with the IGF1 if you have the money. Go with both if you have the money and are competing at a pro or top level national competitor looking to make it. GH if you are a female in my opinion regardless do to the irreversable effects it can have on bone structure. Sorry but i just dont like a manly woman. i have seen many woman on GH at high levels or taking the worng a/s at exremely high levels in which have just made them look rediculous.
Mr.Huge
that IGF would be the ideal choice if you could afford it. Simply because the gains your getting from GH is do to the release of IGF1. Most of them that is. So why use Gh to get the same effect of IGF1 when you can use the actual drug itself?
Many of the growth promoting effects of GH are due to its ability to release IGF1 from the liver. The conversion ratio of GH to IGF1 varies greatly in different individuals but most external sources of GH convert around 4-6mcg of IGF per one I.U. of GH. IGF-1 acts on several different tissues to enhance growth. Now as for getting more benefits out of it with least side effects I would choose HGH simply because your not gonna get the effects you would get from IGF1 in itself.
IGF1 will attach its self to the lining of the intestine and cause atrophy of the abdomen. Every thing IGF1 touches will grow and you have a lot of receptors on the lining of the large intestine and inner wall of the abdominal well. This is what causes what many people call "Growth Gut". Therefore proper cycling is a must. Well the distended bellies you are seeing from Gh is not from the GH its simply from the release of IGF1 in your intestines. You will also get more bone growth from IGF1 as to the side effects associated with GH alone. Simply cause the level of igf the gh is releasing is lower than that of what you would be injecting if using igf1 itself.
Igf1 is simply the stronger drug in my opinion and many may disagree but if you have the money and can afford it I suggest this is the route for top level competitors and pros. This is not a drug for young athletes to use. This si for those who are willing to take a risk and are competing at a very high level. The side effects of igf1 are ones you need to take in consideration also so keep this in mind. These side effects are the irreversable ones you see in some professional men and woman b/b.
If you want the same effects as GH with higher risk of side effects in less time go with the IGF1 if you have the money. Go with both if you have the money and are competing at a pro or top level national competitor looking to make it. GH if you are a female in my opinion regardless do to the irreversable effects it can have on bone structure. Sorry but i just dont like a manly woman. i have seen many woman on GH at high levels or taking the worng a/s at exremely high levels in which have just made them look rediculous.
Mr.Huge
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2002
- Messages
- 866
most people get best results
injecting intramuscularly. Others have done just fine SubQ also. However out of those injecting suQ many have said they are getting lumps under the skin. If they are getting lumps under the skin they are likely to be injecting into into adipose tissue. If you were to use proper methods of injecting SubQ in which i dont think these people are and inject directly into the skinfold, you should'nt get lumps. regardless, it can be administered either way with great results.
Mr.Huge
saint808 said:
injecting intramuscularly. Others have done just fine SubQ also. However out of those injecting suQ many have said they are getting lumps under the skin. If they are getting lumps under the skin they are likely to be injecting into into adipose tissue. If you were to use proper methods of injecting SubQ in which i dont think these people are and inject directly into the skinfold, you should'nt get lumps. regardless, it can be administered either way with great results.
Mr.Huge
IGF-1 works via a non-selective binding mechanism. That is to say, IGF-1 is not in itself bio-active and can only bind to growth receptors throught free-circulating IGFBPs (IGF Binding Proteins) of which there are 6 types.
Binding with an IGFBP will alter the IGF-1's binding affinity for various tissue types. I believe IGFBP Type 4 causes the highest affinity for myogenic stem cells while other types can extend the molecule to bind more easily with colonic epithelial cells or pancreatic cells.
Now, since the action of IGF-1 is actually mediated by our own internal binding proteins, the ratio of free-circulating binding proteins will greatly affect the resulting growth. IGF-1 has a VERY SHORT active duration and is a very fragile and complex molecule. This means it needs to bind to IGFBP quickly if it's going to have any chance of elliciting growth at all. However, if our serum IGFBP is not concentrated enough, only a small portion of the actual IGF-1 we inject will bind with IGFBP before it becomes inactive. The mean saturation level varies from person to person, as well as the IGFBP ratios. This is why certain people say they grow well on the stuff, while others, none at all. I personally saw very disappointing results with the stuff. Did much better on HGH.
Why HGH is better. Not only does HGH release IGF-1 but also stimulates release a lot of other trophic factors, a whole range of them, in fact. But along with IGF-1 it also elevates the release of IGFBPs, AND (most importantly) the IGF-1 is released in less concentration over a prolonged, consistant rate so it doesn't reach saturation levels and doesn't decay before binding with available IGFBPs.
|-]\/\/ -- Spend your money wisely...
Binding with an IGFBP will alter the IGF-1's binding affinity for various tissue types. I believe IGFBP Type 4 causes the highest affinity for myogenic stem cells while other types can extend the molecule to bind more easily with colonic epithelial cells or pancreatic cells.
Now, since the action of IGF-1 is actually mediated by our own internal binding proteins, the ratio of free-circulating binding proteins will greatly affect the resulting growth. IGF-1 has a VERY SHORT active duration and is a very fragile and complex molecule. This means it needs to bind to IGFBP quickly if it's going to have any chance of elliciting growth at all. However, if our serum IGFBP is not concentrated enough, only a small portion of the actual IGF-1 we inject will bind with IGFBP before it becomes inactive. The mean saturation level varies from person to person, as well as the IGFBP ratios. This is why certain people say they grow well on the stuff, while others, none at all. I personally saw very disappointing results with the stuff. Did much better on HGH.
Why HGH is better. Not only does HGH release IGF-1 but also stimulates release a lot of other trophic factors, a whole range of them, in fact. But along with IGF-1 it also elevates the release of IGFBPs, AND (most importantly) the IGF-1 is released in less concentration over a prolonged, consistant rate so it doesn't reach saturation levels and doesn't decay before binding with available IGFBPs.
|-]\/\/ -- Spend your money wisely...
GH
Remember that GH releases IGF levels in the body..so I'd say go with GH..instead of spending the money on iGF choose a good combo of gear to go with it...one day you'll have the money to do both..the good thing with growth and gear is that your inducing hyperplasia and hypertrophy.which would make for an awesome combo
Remember that GH releases IGF levels in the body..so I'd say go with GH..instead of spending the money on iGF choose a good combo of gear to go with it...one day you'll have the money to do both..the good thing with growth and gear is that your inducing hyperplasia and hypertrophy.which would make for an awesome combo
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2002
- Messages
- 866
I think you guys need to
take into consideration the average duration people are using the IGF1 as compared to the amount of time on GH. I am still gonna say simply IGF1 is the stronger drug and you will see more results with it -vs- GH if you were to use them for the same amounts of time. Most people who comment on IGF1 do one 30 day cycle and believe because it has not given them the same effects of Gh it is garbage. Well thats simply because they are doing a much shorted cycle of the IGF1 do to the cost associated with it. GH after 3-6 months of its usage ofcourse is gonna give you better results. However try using the igf1 for the same amount of time and Im sure you will beg to differ.
The shit is no miracle drug nor is GH or any other hormones. You are not gonna achieve the results you are looking for instantly. If that were the case we'd all be on it regardless of the cost.
Its plain to see IGF1 is a stronger drug and will give you better long term results -vs- HGH do your homework look at the studies out there its all in black and white. IGF1, is made by the liver, "triggered" by hgh, and responsible for much of what is attributed to human growth hormone. Hence IGF1 release is what your getting your gains from even when using HGH. What does that tell you? Simple IGF1 is what your getting most of your gains from not HGH however the igf1 that is released through hgh usage.
The ability of IGF-1 alone to increase protein synthesis by increasing cellular mRNA formation as well as increasing uptake of amino acids is far more beneficial then gh alone. This effect on protein synthesis is what leads to increased lean muscle mass. Most research indicates that this effect is dependent on GH presence as well. However, IGF-1 alone does not promote such effects. Nor does GH. The combination of the two is what lead to increased protein synthesis.
IGF-1 alone would be more effective for growth but GH would be more effective for fat loss. Both together would make a great combo although growth would not change much since GH's growth potential is mediated through IGF-1 releasing in the system.
Mr.Huge
This below is a repost from another thread incase you did not read it. ( i didnt see any comments after i posted it so figured maybe you missed it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANti-Aging effects of GH/IGF-1 by Ronald Katz, MD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Passages taken from "Grow Young With HGH" by Ronald Klatz, MD, president of the Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine.
The most abundant hormone made by the pituitary gland is human growth hormone, also called somatotrophin. Growth hormone production hits its peak during adolescence. Most HGH is secreted into the bloodstream in brief bursts, and most HGH secretion takes place during the early hours of REM (deep) sleep.
Once in the bloodstream, human growth hormone stays there for only a short time, only a few minutes, just long enough to stimulate its uptake into the liver, where it is then converted into growth factors. The most important of these growth factors is called IGF-1, short for Insulin-like Growth Factor-1. IGF-1 is also known as somatomedin C.
Growth hormone exerts its actions either directly or indirectly through its intermediary insulin growth factors (IGF-1) to every organ system of the body. Almost nothing escapes its magic touch. In the same ways that it grows the bones of young children, it increases the size of most organs and tissue. Even the brain is affected. The latest studies in animals show that it can regenerate damaged brain tissue.
It is IGF-1, rather than growth hormone itself, which can vary widely through the day, that is used as a measurement of how much growth hormone is being secreted by the body. IGF-1 is directly responsible for most of the benefits and actions associated with HGH. IGF-1 is 10 times more potent than human growth hormone and is now under investigation as a separate drug for many of the same indications of human growth hormone. Phil Micans of International Aging Systems in London believes that IGF-1 will be the hormone of choice in a few years.
HGH and IGF-1 Get at the Blueprint of Aging
"The blueprint of aging is in the DNA under the hood of the telomere", the "clock" at the end of every chromosome that is shortened with each cell division, says noted plastic surgeon and antiaging researcher, Vincent Giampapa, MD, director of clinical research at the Longevity Institute International in Montclair, New Jersey. To actually reverse aging at the cellular level, we will need a substance that will restore telomere length and like a genie turn old cells into young ones. That is not yet available, although Giampapa believes it will be in less than a decade. Until then, growth hormone and its attendant hormone IGF-1 can do the next best thing, help keep the cell in as healthy a state as possible.
The cell's ability to function depends on the genetic material, the DNA, in the nucleus of the cell which codes for all the proteins, hormones, and enzymes that make the cell run. The DNA is like an army under constant attack from oxygen free-radicals, ultraviolet light, the heat of the body, and other damaging factors. Although the DNA has the ability to repair itself, it falls down on the job with age, a victim of the same aging process that affects the cell. At the same time, damage is accumulating in the energy center of the cell, the mitochondria, which has its own DNA. Up until now, one of the few ways we could limit the damage to the DNA was to take antioxidant supplements such as vitamin C and E to bolster our own defenses.
But, according to Dr. Giampapa and Thierry Hertoghe, MD, a physician specializing in hormone replacement therapy in Brussels, the latest European research shows that human growth hormone and IGF-1 can go further than antioxidants and can do what antioxidants cannot. Human growth hormone and IGF-1 act like carriers to bring the cell the raw materials it needs for renovation and repair. IGF-1 launches the delivery of the nucleic acids, DNA and RNA, right into the cell nucleus, where the DNA resides. The nucleic acids are used to repair damage to the DNA and stimulate cell division. Growth hormone initiates the transport of amino acids, the building blocks of protein, and nucleic acids into the cytoplasm of the cell, the area outside the nucleus. This includes the cell membranes and intracellular organelles, such as the mitochondria. In this way, human growth hormone and IGF-1 don't just minimize the damage to the DNA and cellar structures, they help heal the cell and the DNA. These two hormones actually treat the blueprints of aging.
Information on IGF-1
IGF-1 is the other end of the growth hormone chain, the downstream player that actually exerts most of the effects we associate with human growth hormone. IGF-1 is causing a great deal of excitement among two groups, researchers who are exploring its vast potential and bodybuilders who are already using it and claiming eyepopping gains in muscle.
IGF-1 More Potent Than Human Growth Hormone
Human growth hormone exerts most of its effects through IGF-1. Therefore, it is not surprising that IGF-1 injections will do for you what human growth hormone does--and then some, according to its proponents. It increases lean body mass, reduces fat, builds bone, muscle, and nerves. By taking it directly, you bypass the pituitary gland, which may be "burnt out" with aging.
IGF-1 appears to be even more potent than growth hormone in its anti-aging action. According to Keith Kelly, Ph.D., who did the work showing that growth hormone reversed the shrinking of the thymus, when he does his experiments on cells in culture, only IGF-1--and not growth hormone-- works. But both IGF-1 and growth hormone work in the living animal. "I know that both growth hormone and IGF-1 are substantially elevated in the old animals treated with growth hormone," he says, "but my prediction is that the main player is going to be IGF-1."
IGF-1 and It's Potentials
IGF-1 Preventing Brain Aging and Disease
One of the spectacularly exciting uses of growth hormone and IGF-1 may be to prevent and treat the effects of brain aging. In an experiment that has momentous implications for brain injury, stroke, aging, and neurodegenerative disease, a team of scientists in New Zealand showed that IGF-1 can stop the death of cells in the brain. Barbara Johnston, Peter Gluckman, and their colleagues at the University of Auckland found that injections of IGF-1 given 2 hours after brain injury in fetal lambs rescued the damaged neurons and salvaged cells that would otherwise have died during apoptosis, which is the programmed cell death that is believed to cause the loss of brain cells for up to 3 days after the original injury. The treatment was effective in stopping the cell death throughout the brain, including the hippocampus, the cortex, the areas associated with thinking and memory. The treatment was also effective in the striatum, the part of the brain that plays a role in Parkinson's disease in humans. IGF-1 replacement was also found to reduce seizures in animals with brain damage.
These researchers also suggest that IGF-1 might be used to inhibit the effects of neonatal hypoxia during birth (lack of oxygen to the brain) which can leave a baby with permanent brain damage. If IGF-1 can stop the programmed death of cells, then this opens up a world of undreamed-of-possibilities. For instance, the programmed death of cardiac cells after a heart attack leaves the victim with a heart full of dead tissue that before could not be repaired. Brain tissue is destroyed due to a stroke (CVA), and this cell death many times leaves the victim unable to walk, talk, or think clearly. It may also play a role in other neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's disease, muscular dystrophy, and multiple sclerosis. For the first time we may have a weapon against death at the cellular level.
IGF-1 Improving Glucose Metabolism
As its name indicates IGF-1, or insulin-like growth factor-1, has similar properties to insulin, and it has been shown to improve blood sugar profiles in type 2 diabetic patients. High doses of growth hormone have been shown to increase insulin resistance, but IGF-1 administration actually normalized the insulin resistance in a group of healthy volunteers.
In the latter study, Nelly Mauras and Bernard Beaufrere of the Nemours Children's Clinic in Jacksonville, Florida, were looking at several different things: the effect of IGF-1 on protein metabolism; its ability to stop the protein-wasting caused by glucocorticosteroid drugs like prednisone, and its effect on insulin and glucose metabolism. They divided the volunteers into three groups who got one of the following: IGF-1 alone, IGF-1 plus prednisone, and prednisone alone. The study found that IGF-1 at 100 micrograms per kilogram of body weight given twice daily enhanced the body's protein metabolism in the same way as growth hormone. Like growth hormone, it markedly decreased the protein breakdown in the volunteers who were taking prednisone. But whereas growth hormone in an earlier study caused carbohydrate intolerance and insulin resistance when given in combination with prednisone, IGF-1 did not cause these diabetes-like effects. Instead, those subjects who received IGF-1 along with prednisone had normal glucose metabolism. This was remarkable, say the researchers, in light of the fact that glucocorticoids are known to suppress circulating insulin and decrease insulin sensitivity. As a result of this and previous studies, the researchers believe that IGF-1 offers promise in the treatment of protein catabolic states, such as patients who require IV feedings after surgery.
IGF-1 Helping Diabetes
Two 1997 double-blind clinical studies showed that recombinant IGF-1 injections can markedly reduce the need for insulin by up to 45% in patients with insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus. One study involved 8 adults between ages 24 and 49 and the other 43 children and adolescents between the ages of 8 and 17. In the adult trial, IGF-1 also lowered the total cholesterol and triglycerides after only four days of treatment.
While these were short term trials lasting nineteen days and four weeks, respectively, that fact that the insulin requirement dropped markedly and there were no serious side effects make IGF-1 a promising drug for the treatment of diabetes. While it does not do away with the need for insulin, it improved the control of blood sugar and thus may help prevent the dire complications of diabetes, including heart disease, blindness, and peripheral nerve damage that can lead to amputation.
IGF-1 Regenerating Nerves
Another exciting potential use of IGF-1 is in the repair of peripheral nerve tissue that has been damaged by injury or illness. If a nerve is torn in the arm or leg, it means that the connection to the muscle may be impaired, and as a result there is loss of movement and the muscle atrophies. While peripheral nerves can regenerate to some extent, severe tears of more than a few millimeters may result in permanent injury. Now IGF-1 has repaired and reconnected severed nerve endings of up to a distance of 6 millimeters, a feat previously unheard of.
Swedish scientist Hans-Arne Hansson of the Institute of Neurobiology at the University of Goteborg found that IGF-1 in combination with other growth factors could stimulate even more dramatic regeneration. "IGF-1 by itself and in combination with other growth factors is likely to be of importance in promoting healing and repair processes in clinical practice within a few years," he writes.
In studies of cells in culture and in animals, IGF-1 has been shown to have remarkable effects on the spinal cord motor neurons. It increased motor neuron activity in spinal cord cultures by 150 to 270 percent. And it significantly decreased programmed cell death in developing chick embryos. In animal studies, it enhanced the sprouting of axons of the spinal cord motor neurons. And it increased intramuscular nerve sprouting a whopping ten fold when it was given to normal adult rats. In fact, according to a group of researchers at Cephalon, Inc., in West Chester, Pennsylvania, IGF-1 may be the "long-sought endogenous motor neuron sprouting factor."
The implications of this work for helping people is nothing short of mind-boggling. If IGF-1 can regenerate spinal cord motor neurons, it may be useful in treating amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), a devastating disease in which the loss of spinal cord and cortical motor neurons results in complete paralysis and death. It may also be useful for peripheral neuropathies, such as Charcot-Marie-Tooth syndrome.
John Wittig, MD, of UCLA has been using IGF-1 to prevent AIDS wasting in HIV infected patients. IGF-1 may allow more aggressive chemotherapy of certain cancers, since drugs like vincristine and cisplatin can cause peripheral neuropathies at higher doses.
The Growth Factor Army
IGF-1 is only one of the body's many growth factors that are now being identified, isolated, and cloned using genetic engineering technology for use as drugs. As growth factor researcher Eric Dupont, Ph.D., says, "Growth hormone is the general and growth factors are the foot soldiers." Growth factors function like hormones, hooking onto the receptors of cells and sending a biochemical signal across the cell's interior. Whereas hormones usually send long distance messages, growth factors for the most part do local calls.
IGF-1, The Bodybuilder's Dream
A number of world-class bodybuilders are using IGF-1 and reporting massive muscle magnification of up to 20 pounds. An article in Muscle Mass 2000 trumpets IGF-1 as "Possibly the Most Potent Bodybuilding Drug Ever!" According to author T.C. Luoma, "IGF-1 is out there on the streets of America right now; it's being sold out of the trunks of cars in Venice and brown paper packages containing it are being discreetly handed out at Southern California gyms." While there are no controlled studies supporting the musclemen's claims, the anecdotal evidence is building up. "Bodybuilders are claiming they are experiencing drops of 5% body fat in a month, while increases in lean body mass and strength are 'incredible.' Statements like, 'It's the most wonderful stuff in the world, and 'I couldn't believe it man' are the norm."
There are skeptics, such as Mauro Di Pasquale, MD, an expert in performance-enhancing compounds, but there is a rationale for the belief that HGH taken with IGF-1 will work better. There is a feedback mechanism between the human growth hormone in the pituitary gland and the IGF-1 in the liver. The human growth hormone stimulates the release of IGF-1, but when the levels of IGF-1 rise to a certain point in the circulation, it signals the shutdown of growth hormone. But there is a lag time in all of this, which means that growth hormone levels increase at night and IGF-1 levels increase during the day. Bodybuilders hope that taking the two together will have a double-fisted effect on protein synthesis
take into consideration the average duration people are using the IGF1 as compared to the amount of time on GH. I am still gonna say simply IGF1 is the stronger drug and you will see more results with it -vs- GH if you were to use them for the same amounts of time. Most people who comment on IGF1 do one 30 day cycle and believe because it has not given them the same effects of Gh it is garbage. Well thats simply because they are doing a much shorted cycle of the IGF1 do to the cost associated with it. GH after 3-6 months of its usage ofcourse is gonna give you better results. However try using the igf1 for the same amount of time and Im sure you will beg to differ.
The shit is no miracle drug nor is GH or any other hormones. You are not gonna achieve the results you are looking for instantly. If that were the case we'd all be on it regardless of the cost.
Its plain to see IGF1 is a stronger drug and will give you better long term results -vs- HGH do your homework look at the studies out there its all in black and white. IGF1, is made by the liver, "triggered" by hgh, and responsible for much of what is attributed to human growth hormone. Hence IGF1 release is what your getting your gains from even when using HGH. What does that tell you? Simple IGF1 is what your getting most of your gains from not HGH however the igf1 that is released through hgh usage.
The ability of IGF-1 alone to increase protein synthesis by increasing cellular mRNA formation as well as increasing uptake of amino acids is far more beneficial then gh alone. This effect on protein synthesis is what leads to increased lean muscle mass. Most research indicates that this effect is dependent on GH presence as well. However, IGF-1 alone does not promote such effects. Nor does GH. The combination of the two is what lead to increased protein synthesis.
IGF-1 alone would be more effective for growth but GH would be more effective for fat loss. Both together would make a great combo although growth would not change much since GH's growth potential is mediated through IGF-1 releasing in the system.
Mr.Huge
This below is a repost from another thread incase you did not read it. ( i didnt see any comments after i posted it so figured maybe you missed it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANti-Aging effects of GH/IGF-1 by Ronald Katz, MD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Passages taken from "Grow Young With HGH" by Ronald Klatz, MD, president of the Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine.
The most abundant hormone made by the pituitary gland is human growth hormone, also called somatotrophin. Growth hormone production hits its peak during adolescence. Most HGH is secreted into the bloodstream in brief bursts, and most HGH secretion takes place during the early hours of REM (deep) sleep.
Once in the bloodstream, human growth hormone stays there for only a short time, only a few minutes, just long enough to stimulate its uptake into the liver, where it is then converted into growth factors. The most important of these growth factors is called IGF-1, short for Insulin-like Growth Factor-1. IGF-1 is also known as somatomedin C.
Growth hormone exerts its actions either directly or indirectly through its intermediary insulin growth factors (IGF-1) to every organ system of the body. Almost nothing escapes its magic touch. In the same ways that it grows the bones of young children, it increases the size of most organs and tissue. Even the brain is affected. The latest studies in animals show that it can regenerate damaged brain tissue.
It is IGF-1, rather than growth hormone itself, which can vary widely through the day, that is used as a measurement of how much growth hormone is being secreted by the body. IGF-1 is directly responsible for most of the benefits and actions associated with HGH. IGF-1 is 10 times more potent than human growth hormone and is now under investigation as a separate drug for many of the same indications of human growth hormone. Phil Micans of International Aging Systems in London believes that IGF-1 will be the hormone of choice in a few years.
HGH and IGF-1 Get at the Blueprint of Aging
"The blueprint of aging is in the DNA under the hood of the telomere", the "clock" at the end of every chromosome that is shortened with each cell division, says noted plastic surgeon and antiaging researcher, Vincent Giampapa, MD, director of clinical research at the Longevity Institute International in Montclair, New Jersey. To actually reverse aging at the cellular level, we will need a substance that will restore telomere length and like a genie turn old cells into young ones. That is not yet available, although Giampapa believes it will be in less than a decade. Until then, growth hormone and its attendant hormone IGF-1 can do the next best thing, help keep the cell in as healthy a state as possible.
The cell's ability to function depends on the genetic material, the DNA, in the nucleus of the cell which codes for all the proteins, hormones, and enzymes that make the cell run. The DNA is like an army under constant attack from oxygen free-radicals, ultraviolet light, the heat of the body, and other damaging factors. Although the DNA has the ability to repair itself, it falls down on the job with age, a victim of the same aging process that affects the cell. At the same time, damage is accumulating in the energy center of the cell, the mitochondria, which has its own DNA. Up until now, one of the few ways we could limit the damage to the DNA was to take antioxidant supplements such as vitamin C and E to bolster our own defenses.
But, according to Dr. Giampapa and Thierry Hertoghe, MD, a physician specializing in hormone replacement therapy in Brussels, the latest European research shows that human growth hormone and IGF-1 can go further than antioxidants and can do what antioxidants cannot. Human growth hormone and IGF-1 act like carriers to bring the cell the raw materials it needs for renovation and repair. IGF-1 launches the delivery of the nucleic acids, DNA and RNA, right into the cell nucleus, where the DNA resides. The nucleic acids are used to repair damage to the DNA and stimulate cell division. Growth hormone initiates the transport of amino acids, the building blocks of protein, and nucleic acids into the cytoplasm of the cell, the area outside the nucleus. This includes the cell membranes and intracellular organelles, such as the mitochondria. In this way, human growth hormone and IGF-1 don't just minimize the damage to the DNA and cellar structures, they help heal the cell and the DNA. These two hormones actually treat the blueprints of aging.
Information on IGF-1
IGF-1 is the other end of the growth hormone chain, the downstream player that actually exerts most of the effects we associate with human growth hormone. IGF-1 is causing a great deal of excitement among two groups, researchers who are exploring its vast potential and bodybuilders who are already using it and claiming eyepopping gains in muscle.
IGF-1 More Potent Than Human Growth Hormone
Human growth hormone exerts most of its effects through IGF-1. Therefore, it is not surprising that IGF-1 injections will do for you what human growth hormone does--and then some, according to its proponents. It increases lean body mass, reduces fat, builds bone, muscle, and nerves. By taking it directly, you bypass the pituitary gland, which may be "burnt out" with aging.
IGF-1 appears to be even more potent than growth hormone in its anti-aging action. According to Keith Kelly, Ph.D., who did the work showing that growth hormone reversed the shrinking of the thymus, when he does his experiments on cells in culture, only IGF-1--and not growth hormone-- works. But both IGF-1 and growth hormone work in the living animal. "I know that both growth hormone and IGF-1 are substantially elevated in the old animals treated with growth hormone," he says, "but my prediction is that the main player is going to be IGF-1."
IGF-1 and It's Potentials
IGF-1 Preventing Brain Aging and Disease
One of the spectacularly exciting uses of growth hormone and IGF-1 may be to prevent and treat the effects of brain aging. In an experiment that has momentous implications for brain injury, stroke, aging, and neurodegenerative disease, a team of scientists in New Zealand showed that IGF-1 can stop the death of cells in the brain. Barbara Johnston, Peter Gluckman, and their colleagues at the University of Auckland found that injections of IGF-1 given 2 hours after brain injury in fetal lambs rescued the damaged neurons and salvaged cells that would otherwise have died during apoptosis, which is the programmed cell death that is believed to cause the loss of brain cells for up to 3 days after the original injury. The treatment was effective in stopping the cell death throughout the brain, including the hippocampus, the cortex, the areas associated with thinking and memory. The treatment was also effective in the striatum, the part of the brain that plays a role in Parkinson's disease in humans. IGF-1 replacement was also found to reduce seizures in animals with brain damage.
These researchers also suggest that IGF-1 might be used to inhibit the effects of neonatal hypoxia during birth (lack of oxygen to the brain) which can leave a baby with permanent brain damage. If IGF-1 can stop the programmed death of cells, then this opens up a world of undreamed-of-possibilities. For instance, the programmed death of cardiac cells after a heart attack leaves the victim with a heart full of dead tissue that before could not be repaired. Brain tissue is destroyed due to a stroke (CVA), and this cell death many times leaves the victim unable to walk, talk, or think clearly. It may also play a role in other neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's disease, muscular dystrophy, and multiple sclerosis. For the first time we may have a weapon against death at the cellular level.
IGF-1 Improving Glucose Metabolism
As its name indicates IGF-1, or insulin-like growth factor-1, has similar properties to insulin, and it has been shown to improve blood sugar profiles in type 2 diabetic patients. High doses of growth hormone have been shown to increase insulin resistance, but IGF-1 administration actually normalized the insulin resistance in a group of healthy volunteers.
In the latter study, Nelly Mauras and Bernard Beaufrere of the Nemours Children's Clinic in Jacksonville, Florida, were looking at several different things: the effect of IGF-1 on protein metabolism; its ability to stop the protein-wasting caused by glucocorticosteroid drugs like prednisone, and its effect on insulin and glucose metabolism. They divided the volunteers into three groups who got one of the following: IGF-1 alone, IGF-1 plus prednisone, and prednisone alone. The study found that IGF-1 at 100 micrograms per kilogram of body weight given twice daily enhanced the body's protein metabolism in the same way as growth hormone. Like growth hormone, it markedly decreased the protein breakdown in the volunteers who were taking prednisone. But whereas growth hormone in an earlier study caused carbohydrate intolerance and insulin resistance when given in combination with prednisone, IGF-1 did not cause these diabetes-like effects. Instead, those subjects who received IGF-1 along with prednisone had normal glucose metabolism. This was remarkable, say the researchers, in light of the fact that glucocorticoids are known to suppress circulating insulin and decrease insulin sensitivity. As a result of this and previous studies, the researchers believe that IGF-1 offers promise in the treatment of protein catabolic states, such as patients who require IV feedings after surgery.
IGF-1 Helping Diabetes
Two 1997 double-blind clinical studies showed that recombinant IGF-1 injections can markedly reduce the need for insulin by up to 45% in patients with insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus. One study involved 8 adults between ages 24 and 49 and the other 43 children and adolescents between the ages of 8 and 17. In the adult trial, IGF-1 also lowered the total cholesterol and triglycerides after only four days of treatment.
While these were short term trials lasting nineteen days and four weeks, respectively, that fact that the insulin requirement dropped markedly and there were no serious side effects make IGF-1 a promising drug for the treatment of diabetes. While it does not do away with the need for insulin, it improved the control of blood sugar and thus may help prevent the dire complications of diabetes, including heart disease, blindness, and peripheral nerve damage that can lead to amputation.
IGF-1 Regenerating Nerves
Another exciting potential use of IGF-1 is in the repair of peripheral nerve tissue that has been damaged by injury or illness. If a nerve is torn in the arm or leg, it means that the connection to the muscle may be impaired, and as a result there is loss of movement and the muscle atrophies. While peripheral nerves can regenerate to some extent, severe tears of more than a few millimeters may result in permanent injury. Now IGF-1 has repaired and reconnected severed nerve endings of up to a distance of 6 millimeters, a feat previously unheard of.
Swedish scientist Hans-Arne Hansson of the Institute of Neurobiology at the University of Goteborg found that IGF-1 in combination with other growth factors could stimulate even more dramatic regeneration. "IGF-1 by itself and in combination with other growth factors is likely to be of importance in promoting healing and repair processes in clinical practice within a few years," he writes.
In studies of cells in culture and in animals, IGF-1 has been shown to have remarkable effects on the spinal cord motor neurons. It increased motor neuron activity in spinal cord cultures by 150 to 270 percent. And it significantly decreased programmed cell death in developing chick embryos. In animal studies, it enhanced the sprouting of axons of the spinal cord motor neurons. And it increased intramuscular nerve sprouting a whopping ten fold when it was given to normal adult rats. In fact, according to a group of researchers at Cephalon, Inc., in West Chester, Pennsylvania, IGF-1 may be the "long-sought endogenous motor neuron sprouting factor."
The implications of this work for helping people is nothing short of mind-boggling. If IGF-1 can regenerate spinal cord motor neurons, it may be useful in treating amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), a devastating disease in which the loss of spinal cord and cortical motor neurons results in complete paralysis and death. It may also be useful for peripheral neuropathies, such as Charcot-Marie-Tooth syndrome.
John Wittig, MD, of UCLA has been using IGF-1 to prevent AIDS wasting in HIV infected patients. IGF-1 may allow more aggressive chemotherapy of certain cancers, since drugs like vincristine and cisplatin can cause peripheral neuropathies at higher doses.
The Growth Factor Army
IGF-1 is only one of the body's many growth factors that are now being identified, isolated, and cloned using genetic engineering technology for use as drugs. As growth factor researcher Eric Dupont, Ph.D., says, "Growth hormone is the general and growth factors are the foot soldiers." Growth factors function like hormones, hooking onto the receptors of cells and sending a biochemical signal across the cell's interior. Whereas hormones usually send long distance messages, growth factors for the most part do local calls.
IGF-1, The Bodybuilder's Dream
A number of world-class bodybuilders are using IGF-1 and reporting massive muscle magnification of up to 20 pounds. An article in Muscle Mass 2000 trumpets IGF-1 as "Possibly the Most Potent Bodybuilding Drug Ever!" According to author T.C. Luoma, "IGF-1 is out there on the streets of America right now; it's being sold out of the trunks of cars in Venice and brown paper packages containing it are being discreetly handed out at Southern California gyms." While there are no controlled studies supporting the musclemen's claims, the anecdotal evidence is building up. "Bodybuilders are claiming they are experiencing drops of 5% body fat in a month, while increases in lean body mass and strength are 'incredible.' Statements like, 'It's the most wonderful stuff in the world, and 'I couldn't believe it man' are the norm."
There are skeptics, such as Mauro Di Pasquale, MD, an expert in performance-enhancing compounds, but there is a rationale for the belief that HGH taken with IGF-1 will work better. There is a feedback mechanism between the human growth hormone in the pituitary gland and the IGF-1 in the liver. The human growth hormone stimulates the release of IGF-1, but when the levels of IGF-1 rise to a certain point in the circulation, it signals the shutdown of growth hormone. But there is a lag time in all of this, which means that growth hormone levels increase at night and IGF-1 levels increase during the day. Bodybuilders hope that taking the two together will have a double-fisted effect on protein synthesis
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I'll also tell you to save your money if you dont have the money to burn. The shit isnt cheap and it isnt gonna give you the results you expect in a short amount of time. Everyone is looking for the easy route and they just dont get it. Hard work dedication, determination, discipline is what its all about. Not miracle drug never has been that way never will be that way.
No pun intended here Im just spouting off. So no disresepct to you saint and this is not directed toward anyone here. Im just saying in general...
Mr.Huge
saint808 said:
I'll also tell you to save your money if you dont have the money to burn. The shit isnt cheap and it isnt gonna give you the results you expect in a short amount of time. Everyone is looking for the easy route and they just dont get it. Hard work dedication, determination, discipline is what its all about. Not miracle drug never has been that way never will be that way.
No pun intended here Im just spouting off. So no disresepct to you saint and this is not directed toward anyone here. Im just saying in general...
Mr.Huge
Why does Dr. Katz fail to mention anything about the mechanism of IGF-1? It's direct effect on myoblasts, or it's receptor-specific binding affinity? In fact, if you study the mechanics of IGF-1 to include the ligand struct/ base pair and medium, you will agree the primary anabolic mechanism of IGF-1 has little to do with protein synthesis as compared to, say, traditional AR Agonists.
IGF-1, as with almost all growth factors, acts primarily on base cells. In our case, the cells of interest are the myogenic stem cells (myoblasts). IGF-1, when bound to the proper IGFBP (why doesn't Dr. Katz mention anything about binding proteins?) can trigger a differentiation of the myoblasts. This division, and maturation of the myogenic stem cells is believed to be the primary anabolic mechanism of IGF-1 as stated by GroPep. Their en-vitro studies both document and confirm this.
Furthermore, direct results of growth factors are not immediately apparent. This is because the newly cleaved cells take time to mature. I have used GH and not seen the full result for as long as 6 months out (but your mileage may vary). This is why trophic factors are seen as being generally weaker than AS, because the growth mechanisms are quite different. AS elicits profound short term growth relatively quickly, whereas trophic factors have a more gradual response curve.
Just for the record, I'll post my IGF-1 experiment:
Compound: Long[R3]IGF-1 (lypholized, culture grade)
Source: GroPep.au
Protocol: See GroPep.au website for instructions followed.
Dosage: 150 mcg / day
Duration: 2 YEARS
Results: Negligible
I want to live in anime world, where cute girls with big eyes and purple hair wear exploding panties and believe anything I tell them. But, until then, I'll glue horns on my head and chase my cat around the house until I break something.
|-]\/\/ -- I am the BookWorm, I have a trackball mouse...
IGF-1, as with almost all growth factors, acts primarily on base cells. In our case, the cells of interest are the myogenic stem cells (myoblasts). IGF-1, when bound to the proper IGFBP (why doesn't Dr. Katz mention anything about binding proteins?) can trigger a differentiation of the myoblasts. This division, and maturation of the myogenic stem cells is believed to be the primary anabolic mechanism of IGF-1 as stated by GroPep. Their en-vitro studies both document and confirm this.
Furthermore, direct results of growth factors are not immediately apparent. This is because the newly cleaved cells take time to mature. I have used GH and not seen the full result for as long as 6 months out (but your mileage may vary). This is why trophic factors are seen as being generally weaker than AS, because the growth mechanisms are quite different. AS elicits profound short term growth relatively quickly, whereas trophic factors have a more gradual response curve.
Just for the record, I'll post my IGF-1 experiment:
Compound: Long[R3]IGF-1 (lypholized, culture grade)
Source: GroPep.au
Protocol: See GroPep.au website for instructions followed.
Dosage: 150 mcg / day
Duration: 2 YEARS
Results: Negligible
I want to live in anime world, where cute girls with big eyes and purple hair wear exploding panties and believe anything I tell them. But, until then, I'll glue horns on my head and chase my cat around the house until I break something.
|-]\/\/ -- I am the BookWorm, I have a trackball mouse...
- Joined
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The secretion of Growth Hormone by the pituitary gland is initiated by the hypothalamus. The hypothalamus initiates Growth Hormone secretion by secreting GHRH at the same time it stops secreting somatostatin. When somatostatin is turned off and GHRH is turned on, the pituitary will release Growth Hormone in different bursts of activity. These bursts of Growth Hormone release occur primarily during deep stages of sleep, such as stage 3 and stage 4. Once released in the blood, Growth Hormone is "very short lived". GH is generally completely metabolized and gone within a half-hour. However, GH happens to reach the liver and many other cells in the body, and induce them to make IGF-1. "It is really IGF-1 that travels around to the various tissues of the body to give us the reults we achieve when using GH.
The secretion of Growth Hormone itself is regulated by a classic biofeedback loop. Once levels of Growth Hormone in the blood reach a certain point, Growth Hormone stimulates receptors in the pituitary to stop further Growth Hormone secretion. It also stimulates receptors in the hypothalamus to stop GHRH and turn on somatostatin. IGF-1, which goes up in response to Growth Hormone, also feeds back on the pituitary and hypothalamus to help control Growth Hormone secretion. Once again it is the IGF1 that allows you to see most of the benefits you get from the GH.
Growth Hormone plays a major role in stimulating body growth by signaling the liver and other tissues to secrete IGF-1. thus it is IGF1 that is triggering the majority of these results of GH use.
IGF-1 effects muscle growth by stimulating both the differentiation and proliferation of myoblasts. It also stimulates amino acid uptake and protein synthesis in muscle and other tissues. GH triggers it by releasing the IGF1. IGF-1 is also responsible for stimulates proliferation of chondrocytes resulting in bone growth. Growth Hormone does have a direct effect on bone growth in stimulating differentiation of chondrocytes though.
Mr.Huge
The secretion of Growth Hormone itself is regulated by a classic biofeedback loop. Once levels of Growth Hormone in the blood reach a certain point, Growth Hormone stimulates receptors in the pituitary to stop further Growth Hormone secretion. It also stimulates receptors in the hypothalamus to stop GHRH and turn on somatostatin. IGF-1, which goes up in response to Growth Hormone, also feeds back on the pituitary and hypothalamus to help control Growth Hormone secretion. Once again it is the IGF1 that allows you to see most of the benefits you get from the GH.
Growth Hormone plays a major role in stimulating body growth by signaling the liver and other tissues to secrete IGF-1. thus it is IGF1 that is triggering the majority of these results of GH use.
IGF-1 effects muscle growth by stimulating both the differentiation and proliferation of myoblasts. It also stimulates amino acid uptake and protein synthesis in muscle and other tissues. GH triggers it by releasing the IGF1. IGF-1 is also responsible for stimulates proliferation of chondrocytes resulting in bone growth. Growth Hormone does have a direct effect on bone growth in stimulating differentiation of chondrocytes though.
Mr.Huge
What you are saying is not in dispute.
However, IGF-1 has no tissue-specific binding affinity. It must be activated by binding activators which are the basic types of binding proteins in circulation. In other words, if you had no binding proteins, IGF-1 would be unable to bind to tissue-specific receptors.
Furthermore, IGF-1 concentrations do not significantly upregulate IGFBP expression. So if you only have enough binding proteins in your plasma to activate 10 mcg of IGF-1, you will only get 10mcg's worth of growth from a 150 mcg dose (wish I had known this sooner). Without the binding proteins, IGF-1 can't do much.
However, the biggest advantage of GH over IGF-1 for tissue growth, is that it DOES upregulate IGFBP Expression along with IGF-1 expression. So the IGF-1 you secrete actually has a better chance of binding to tissue receptors.
Now which tissue-specific receptors IGF-1 will bind to is determined by one of 6 types of expressed IGFBPs. This is fine. It's how I understand it to work anyway. If I missed something, please elucidate.
|-]\/\/ --Who da funk?
However, IGF-1 has no tissue-specific binding affinity. It must be activated by binding activators which are the basic types of binding proteins in circulation. In other words, if you had no binding proteins, IGF-1 would be unable to bind to tissue-specific receptors.
Furthermore, IGF-1 concentrations do not significantly upregulate IGFBP expression. So if you only have enough binding proteins in your plasma to activate 10 mcg of IGF-1, you will only get 10mcg's worth of growth from a 150 mcg dose (wish I had known this sooner). Without the binding proteins, IGF-1 can't do much.
However, the biggest advantage of GH over IGF-1 for tissue growth, is that it DOES upregulate IGFBP Expression along with IGF-1 expression. So the IGF-1 you secrete actually has a better chance of binding to tissue receptors.
Now which tissue-specific receptors IGF-1 will bind to is determined by one of 6 types of expressed IGFBPs. This is fine. It's how I understand it to work anyway. If I missed something, please elucidate.
|-]\/\/ --Who da funk?
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