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IGF-1's link to death and cancer..What's the ideal level?

alirezo0o

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Since I've placed my first order for GH I thought that it'd be nice to learn a little more about hgh, igf-1 and the ideal level for fat-loss and small muscle building. My baseline igf-1 is around 230. I found very interesting studies and though about sharing them.

"Excessively low or high IGF-1 levels can lead to health problems like cancer and premature death."

*Chitnis MM, Yuen JS, Protheroe AS, et al. The type 1 insulin-like growth factor receptor pathway. Clin Cancer Res 2008,14:6364-6370.
*Werner H, Bruchim I. The insulin-like growth factor-I receptor as an oncogene. Arch Physiol Biochem 2009, 115:58-71.
*Davies M, Gupta S, Goldspink G, Winslet M. The insulin-like growth factor system and colorectal cancer: clinical and experimental evidence. Int J Colorectal Dis 2006, 21:201-208.
*Sandhu MS, Dunger DB, Giovannucci EL. Insulin, insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I), IGF binding proteins, their biologic interactions, and colorectal cancer. J Natl Cancer Inst 2002, 94:972-980.
*Kaaks R. Nutrition, insulin, IGF-1 metabolism and cancer risk: a summary of epidemiological evidence. Novartis Found Symp 2004, 262:247-260; discussion 260-268.

"A meta-analysis analyzed ten studies on IGF-1 levels and all-cause mortality. The authors found a “U-shaped” association, meaning that IGF-1 levels on the low end and the high end of the spectrum were associated with increased risk of premature death."

*Burgers AM, Biermasz NR, Schoones JW, et al. Meta-analysis and dose-response metaregression: circulating insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) and mortality. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2011, 96:2912-2920.

Blah blah blah.

I wanna ask vets to chime in and guide please :headbang:
 
Last edited:

b_cornelius

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Androgens are a permissive factor for IGF (sort of like thyroid hormone is a permissive factor for adrenergic amine). IGF's cellular actions are about as strong as androgens set for the basal rate of protein metabolism. Kind of like everyone has a sense that IGF alone wont make you huge...you need androgens.

One strategy to employ for high circulating-systematic IGF would be to use truly selective Anabolics and SERMs. That way the systematic IGF goes everywhere, yet it would only be potent in the tissues strongly stimulated by the steroids.

Otherwise, sure too much IGF is too much IGF. The exact levels depend on some things. Your muscles make their own local IGF, but they're always greedy for more. Hell, Liver IGF isn't organized like a gland. The so called Liver IGF is just over flow. The liver doesn't make it for "the body" in some highly organized fashion. The liver makes IGF mainly for itself, but because the type of filtering organ that the liver is, the liver's excess IGF easily enters into an endocrine-like circulation; although, liver IGF is not really organized in an endocrine-like manner. All IGF is primarily paracrine, but it spills over into general circulation when there is too much for the local receptors where it is produced.
 

alirezo0o

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Androgens are a permissive factor for IGF (sort of like thyroid hormone is a permissive factor for adrenergic amine). IGF's cellular actions are about as strong as androgens set for the basal rate of protein metabolism. Kind of like everyone has a sense that IGF alone wont make you huge...you need androgens.

One strategy to employ for high circulating-systematic IGF would be to use truly selective Anabolics and SERMs. That way the systematic IGF goes everywhere, yet it would only be potent in the tissues strongly stimulated by the steroids.

Otherwise, sure too much IGF is too much IGF. The exact levels depend on some things. Your muscles make their own local IGF, but they're always greedy for more. Hell, Liver IGF isn't organized like a gland. The so called Liver IGF is just over flow. The liver doesn't make it for "the body" in some highly organized fashion. The liver makes IGF mainly for itself, but because the type of filtering organ that the liver is, the liver's excess IGF easily enters into an endocrine-like circulation; although, liver IGF is not really organized in an endocrine-like manner. All IGF is primarily paracrine, but it spills over into general circulation when there is too much for the local receptors where it is produced.


Good info bro. But I still don't have an answer to my question. What would be the optimal IGF-1 level for maintenance, fat loss and longevity?
I've read a lot and what anti-aging clinics normally offer is around 300. However in some studies a 150-175 range is offered since very high "circulating" igf-1 levels will decrease the lifespan in rats.(can mention the study needed)

Unlike lab animals, humans are exposed to various infections, stress, and other environmental factors that a good IGF-1 level might help.
 

LK3

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people who are interested in life extension generally look at ways to keep igf levels lower.

they want cells to replicate as slowly as possible.

hgh and a lot of what we do here is the opposite.

one theory is that higher cell turnover leads to high mutation rates...
thus higher % of cancer....

lots of theories no real answers.
in theory curcumin causes cells to replicate without mutation....:lightbulb:
lol
sorry:p
:welcome:
 

BillyBlanco

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Some people get higher levels of IGF from GH than others. Levels can be drastically different even on the same dose of GH from individual to individual. It's like checking your estrogen to see if your test is good, all our levels will be different. I don't know if there's an answer to your question since our bodies are all different in how we process things. Plus, the GH/IGF can cause cells to replicate faster, good and bad. But if the cancer is not already present, I'm not sure this is an issue. Cancer can be caused by so many things. But GH has not been demonstrated to directly or indirectly "cause" cancer like some drugs.
 

DOGGCRAPP

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I am going by memory here but if I remember right the whole key to this is IGFBP3.....which is cancer protective if levels are high. So when someone uses GH their IGF-1 levels go up and with that the liver produces more IGFBP3......its when someone uses just IGF-1 by itself that (in theory at least) someone is really playing Russian Roullette with cancer
 

alirezo0o

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I am going by memory here but if I remember right the whole key to this is IGFBP3.....which is cancer protective if levels are high. So when someone uses GH their IGF-1 levels go up and with that the liver produces more IGFBP3......its when someone uses just IGF-1 by itself that (in theory at least) someone is really playing Russian Roullette with cancer

Having high IGFBP3 might help with some kind of cancers in some people but is associated with increased cancer severity or worse for some others.
 

alirezo0o

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Some people get higher levels of IGF from GH than others. Levels can be drastically different even on the same dose of GH from individual to individual. It's like checking your estrogen to see if your test is good, all our levels will be different. I don't know if there's an answer to your question since our bodies are all different in how we process things. Plus, the GH/IGF can cause cells to replicate faster, good and bad. But if the cancer is not already present, I'm not sure this is an issue. Cancer can be caused by so many things. But GH has not been demonstrated to directly or indirectly "cause" cancer like some drugs.

I don't ask how much GH you have to take to get to a certain level of IGF. Of course everyone responds differently to the amount of GH they take based on age and genes. I'm saying the ideal level for fat loss, maintenance and longevity.
 

Swifto

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I am going by memory here but if I remember right the whole key to this is IGFBP3.....which is cancer protective if levels are high. So when someone uses GH their IGF-1 levels go up and with that the liver produces more IGFBP3......its when someone uses just IGF-1 by itself that (in theory at least) someone is really playing Russian Roullette with cancer

Correct and I think you're thinking of this study.

IGFBP-3 can inhibit IGF action on cancer cells in vitro and also can induce apoptosis via an IGF-independent mechanism.

But this has only been shown in epidemiological and colon cancer.
 

b_cornelius

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I am going by memory here but if I remember right the whole key to this is IGFBP3.....which is cancer protective if levels are high. So when someone uses GH their IGF-1 levels go up and with that the liver produces more IGFBP3......its when someone uses just IGF-1 by itself that (in theory at least) someone is really playing Russian Roullette with cancer

Yah, since circulating IGF is excess, the Binding Proteins bind them up into a reserve system...then they also provide specific vectors...

And for OPs Question, you could potentially view all circulating/free IGF as excessive and unnecessary, then these IGF tests are used to get an idea, relatively, of what's going on at the cellular level, yet they are just some crude approximations and comparisons.

As I mentioned your cells are always making and using their own paracrine IGF, but this is hard to test for. If you really want to figure all this "health stuff," you'd have to account for that.

But again, like I said, you can use the standard IGF tests to assume that if they show an excessively low circulating level, maybe all local IGF production is low. Obviously, you need a reasonable baseline level for wellbeing, and if people want to start throwing out some definite numbers, more power to 'em.

All I can say is the answer is more testing for more different points of reference. That's the future, lots more tests, more data, more info. Otherwise we're just taking simple shots in the dark.

Oh, and we have to figure out all those Binding Proteins....
 

nothuman

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I think I remember Dr. Kim saying up to a 500 level of IGF1 is safe
 

SRhealth-Rachel

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Some people get higher levels of IGF from GH than others. Levels can be drastically different even on the same dose of GH from individual to individual. It's like checking your estrogen to see if your test is good, all our levels will be different. I don't know if there's an answer to your question since our bodies are all different in how we process things. Plus, the GH/IGF can cause cells to replicate faster, good and bad. But if the cancer is not already present, I'm not sure this is an issue. Cancer can be caused by so many things. But GH has not been demonstrated to directly or indirectly "cause" cancer like some drugs.

sure many thing will cause cancer, not only IGH
your diet habits, you live condition and your life style also have many hidden danger
 

Nabz

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sure many thing will cause cancer, not only IGH
your diet habits, you live condition and your life style also have many hidden danger

Its clear that you post your stuff for promotion but honestly all its doing (for me anyways) is pushing me away from your products.:lightbulb:

Your post either make no sense, copied and pasted or you just dont know what you're talking about.

I dont like to post negative stuff but every thread I see/read you make these posts, its getting annoying:rolleyes:
 

Thebigone

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Androgens are a permissive factor for IGF (sort of like thyroid hormone is a permissive factor for adrenergic amine). IGF's cellular actions are about as strong as androgens set for the basal rate of protein metabolism. Kind of like everyone has a sense that IGF alone wont make you huge...you need androgens.

One strategy to employ for high circulating-systematic IGF would be to use truly selective Anabolics and SERMs. That way the systematic IGF goes everywhere, yet it would only be potent in the tissues strongly stimulated by the steroids.

Otherwise, sure too much IGF is too much IGF. The exact levels depend on some things. Your muscles make their own local IGF, but they're always greedy for more. Hell, Liver IGF isn't organized like a gland. The so called Liver IGF is just over flow. The liver doesn't make it for "the body" in some highly organized fashion. The liver makes IGF mainly for itself, but because the type of filtering organ that the liver is, the liver's excess IGF easily enters into an endocrine-like circulation; although, liver IGF is not really organized in an endocrine-like manner. All IGF is primarily paracrine, but it spills over into general circulation when there is too much for the local receptors where it is produced.

So using a SERM can further increase igf levels? I didn't know this. The only SERMs I know of are clomid and nolvadex. The rest like adex and aromasin are anti-e's not serms. So would you suggest nolvadex and if so what dose? Thanks.
 

Nabz

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So using a SERM can further increase igf levels? I didn't know this. The only SERMs I know of are clomid and nolvadex. The rest like adex and aromasin are anti-e's not serms. So would you suggest nolvadex and if so what dose? Thanks.

I am curious too as I have read that Nolvadex decreases IGF production ?
 

alirezo0o

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Neuroendocrine regulation of growth hormone and androgen axes by selective estrogen receptor modulators in healthy men.

Abstract: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20843951

Abstract
CONTEXT:
In men, the stimulation of GH and inhibition of LH secretion by testosterone requires aromatization to estradiol. Tamoxifen, a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM), possesses central estrogen antagonistic effect but peripheral hepatic agonist effect, lowering IGF-I. Thus, tamoxifen is likely to perturb the neuroendocrine regulation of GH and gonadal axes. Raloxifene, a SERM, is used for therapy of osteoporosis in both sexes. Its neuroendocrine effects in men are poorly understood.
OBJECTIVE:
The aim was to compare the impact of raloxifene and tamoxifen on GH-IGF-I and gonadal axes in healthy men.
DESIGN:
We conducted a randomized, open-label crossover study.
PATIENTS AND INTERVENTION:
Ten healthy men were randomized to 2-wk sequential treatment with tamoxifen (10 and 20 mg/d) and raloxifene (60 and 120 mg/d), with a 2-wk intervening washout period.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
We measured the GH response to arginine and circulating levels of IGF-I, LH, FSH, testosterone, and SHBG.
RESULTS:
Tamoxifen, but not raloxifene, significantly reduced IGF-I levels by 25±6% (P<0.01) and increased SHBG levels by 20±7% (P<0.05) at the higher therapeutic dose. There was a nonstatistically significant trend toward a reduction in the GH response to arginine with both SERMs. Both drugs significantly increased LH, FSH, and testosterone concentrations. The mean increase in testosterone (40 vs. 25%; P<0.05) and LH (70 vs. 30%; P<0.01) was significantly greater with tamoxifen than with raloxifene treatment.
CONCLUSIONS:
Tamoxifen, but not raloxifene, reduces IGF-I levels. Both SERMs stimulate the gonadal axis, with tamoxifen imparting a greater effect. We conclude that in therapeutic doses, raloxifene perturbs the GH and gonadal axes to a lesser degree than tamoxifen.

I couldn't find a study on clomid tho.
 

Barny

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I cannot find the study any more, but there was one done where they tested various levels of HGH injections into people to see what it did for fat loss. After about 2 months, all levels tested saw fat loss in the mid section, with the amount being dose dependent. The high end level was 10IUs a day and they say a 29% (I think) reduction in abdominal fat in only 2 months. But yeah, that is high. The 2IUs a day saw a 9% reduction. This was using pharma grade, of course, so I suspect a good generic would need 4IUs to get the same result.

The more interesting thing is that this ONLY APPLIED TO MEN. Women did NOT see a reduction in abdominal fat, though they DID see a large reduction in fat on their thighs. The people running the study did not expect this finding, but it help true across the board on all IU levels injected.
 

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